The Whip
elodea
Editlodea Join Date: 2009-06-20 Member: 67877Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Editlodea Join Date: 2009-06-20 Member: 67877Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">From zero to hero</div>The new whip mobility is amazingly fun to play with and is almost like a zerg queen in terms of base defense - with good micro you can effectively deny early marine rushes. Also love how their effectiveness as offensive structures is dependant on co-ordinating with team gorges. I'm not really noticing the lack of upgrades because it really feels like an RTS, so props UWE on the anti stacking and whip movement improvements! However, something needs to be done about their small
a) resource cost and b) hitbox size
or c) shade energy regen.
I tried a 'joke' cloaked whip rush yesterday night only to find that a really good marine team just couldn't find an answer to it (it is hilarious). The build is one shade and 4 whips with a later forward shade, pushing with quick pustule bursts and shade cloak to force 2nd ip and slow marine expansion. With 4 whips its basically an instant kill or a long one if they discover the whips and run away to get munched by skulks or locked down in base. With good gorge support, i can't think of any way a marine team of equal skill or even higher have a fighting chance especially with the beacon nerf. Early obs to counter the cloak is nullified by gorge support and whip mobility basically while shotguns don't have the range currently.
Whatever UWE chooses to do, i hope they keep the feel of the whip as a mobile structure! Alien commanding is definitely not a passive role anymore and for the better.
a) resource cost and b) hitbox size
or c) shade energy regen.
I tried a 'joke' cloaked whip rush yesterday night only to find that a really good marine team just couldn't find an answer to it (it is hilarious). The build is one shade and 4 whips with a later forward shade, pushing with quick pustule bursts and shade cloak to force 2nd ip and slow marine expansion. With 4 whips its basically an instant kill or a long one if they discover the whips and run away to get munched by skulks or locked down in base. With good gorge support, i can't think of any way a marine team of equal skill or even higher have a fighting chance especially with the beacon nerf. Early obs to counter the cloak is nullified by gorge support and whip mobility basically while shotguns don't have the range currently.
Whatever UWE chooses to do, i hope they keep the feel of the whip as a mobile structure! Alien commanding is definitely not a passive role anymore and for the better.
Comments
Add Bombard in the mix and the Whip will be great help with late game sieges. They'll keep nades off your forward base while lobbing bile bombs around corners.
I love it. Glad you all do too :)
Only difference I noticed was that it moves faster, doesn't do much damage still and marines easily avoid it, plus it still has quite low health.
Didn't try it much, didn't want to risk the game on a structure that as far as I know is useless, built one for upgrades and that's it.
Only difference I noticed was that it moves faster, doesn't do much damage still and marines easily avoid it, plus it still has quite low health.
Didn't try it much, didn't want to risk the game on a structure that as far as I know is useless, built one for upgrades and that's it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They record player wins and losses now? Huh. When did they add that feature in?
For one, its maximum stacking effect of 10 is unreachable in an average game, but the borderline cases are very overpowered (+100% damage and +10% attack speed for 6 seconds for all aliens in the area).
However, the effective range of Fury and duration are too short have any significant impact on the game.
Fury would be a lot more useful if its area and duration are increased, but its stack ceiling is lowered (to 2 or 3 stacks).
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/lwUNKeOFggo"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lwUNKeOFggo" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
<div align='center'><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwUNKeOFggo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwUNKeOFggo</a></div>
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hu--9B1UK6Q"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hu--9B1UK6Q" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
<div align='center'><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu--9B1UK6Q" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu--9B1UK6Q</a></div>
Only difference I noticed was that it moves faster, doesn't do much damage still and marines easily avoid it, plus it still has quite low health.
Didn't try it much, didn't want to risk the game on a structure that as far as I know is useless, built one for upgrades and that's it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's faster, and has alot more HP. They are pretty damn tough, especially with a gorge healing.
I would like the see the HP get nerfed to same value as before, as this new speed buff made the whips really good.
If you got 4 whips and a gorge, that's a really powerful offense. Kills marines in a sec if they get close.
Last time I tried it, it seemed like the whip instantly deals damage when you deploy them, and something is in range.
A whip rush seems like a large waste of resources there chuck.
The whips are much better now because they have some defence against GL spam, and you can quickly walk them to valuable locations. If a marine is standing shooting something I often walk a whip up to him and it kills him or does serious damage. You can sometimes chase a single marine away with one whip.
Waypointing actually works now. Whips won't fall through the map either.
Only difference I noticed was that it moves faster, doesn't do much damage still and marines easily avoid it, plus it still has quite low health.
Didn't try it much, didn't want to risk the game on a structure that as far as I know is useless, built one for upgrades and that's it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The new Whip 2.0 is MUCH faster moving on infestation (so can help defend an area), and can hit BACK grenades that are launched at it by marines. It is a superb unit.
A whip rush seems like a large waste of resources there chuck.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
indeed. This chamber is rather useless and wasteful if built too many. Its still an easy target, short range and costly to have many of.
The whip is only here so the commander has something to do being the commander.
I just can't understand people who even like this chamber or say its good. I've had games where I ran up to the whip and blasted it down with such ease.
This chamber must be redesigned or removed, I've said before and will say it again. I personally believe this chamber must be removed, and change alien commander role to be less complicated then it is now.
The whips are much better now because they have some defence against GL spam, and you can quickly walk them to valuable locations. If a marine is standing shooting something I often walk a whip up to him and it kills him or does serious damage. You can sometimes chase a single marine away with one whip.
Waypointing actually works now. Whips won't fall through the map either.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They were recorded as footage for that "<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtA7RU4nlRQ" target="_blank">The vast expanses of Unknown Worlds</a>" vid I did for 188. I recorded no sound by accident (DXtory tests :P). This wasn't used though in that vidya, music was used in any case so, lack of sound wasn't that big an issue :)
While I do like that whips are actually usable on offense, I wonder if we'll run into the same problem as ARC trains (i.e. think 20 whips walking into a marine base).
The whip does attack really dahm quick after you root it where it doesn't sync up with the animation i believe. I'll try record some cloaked whip rushes but don't want to be exploiting any bugs :s.
<!--QuoteBegin-ScardyBob+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->While I do like that whips are actually usable on offense, I wonder if we'll run into the same problem as ARC trains (i.e. think 20 whips walking into a marine base).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nope :). One arc can make short work of alot of whips even if their directly attacking the arc back. Especially since the anti stack makes it hard to root alot of whips in the same area (some will refuse to root).
A whip rush seems like a large waste of resources there chuck.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Notice the amount of grenades, that was not just one marine.
A whip rush seems like a large waste of resources there chuck.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
5 whips vs 4 marines with grenadelaunchers and 3 turrets I think
I would like the see the HP get nerfed to same value as before, as this new speed buff made the whips really good.
If you got 4 whips and a gorge, that's a really powerful offense. Kills marines in a sec if they get close.
Last time I tried it, it seemed like the whip instantly deals damage when you deploy them, and something is in range.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm.
I'd say make them tougher when deployed, but cut their toughness significantly when undeployed and mobile.
Add in the ability for them to hit things while undeployed (so you can use them like proper units) and maybe remove their grenade shield thingy when undeployed.
Also make deployment takea little while, basically deploying them should be shifting them in and out of defensive mode.
Otherwise I remain a little skeptical of their durability, and the effectiveness of the grenade knockback since I'd be surprised if that actually works.
If it does give them an effective resistance to grenades however and they no longer die to a rifle clip or so of bullets, they could be an interesting unit.
Oh also it'd be nice if the root/unroot was either automatic on infestation (why wouldn't you want to use it?) or much more responsive.
The first game was won by surprising the enemy with ten or so, they were in flight control so it was pretty easy to get the power node down without any real losses.
The second game the marines were in Sub Access, which proved a more hardy defense. The initial wave of ten or so were destroyed, leaving the power node at 3% (3%!), but they were only supported by a couple skulks. There were only two or three marines in the base at the time, but the commander quickly baconed. The second attack featured two waves of ten or so mature whips, supported by fades, gorges, skulks, what have you. The element of surprise of gone on this one, they knew it was coming before the whips even entered the room. Hilarity ensued. All in all I think only eight whips were lost.
Gorges seem indispensable in this strategy, both to lay down cysts and to keep the whips healed.
I'm already thinking effective counters would be defensive arcs, maybe three or four stationed in different corners of the base, and flamethrowers. I'm liking this strategy as it means now aliens have a real way of breaking that marine shell.
Sorry your going to have to put up with the poor quality, i really dont know how to record in hd. Take what you may, this strat does takes advantage of a few bugs atm like instant root attack, marine build sparks showing up out of los, and as/ms so close to each other, but i love moments like these in beta stages where we get to find inventive ways to have fun :). (I promise i wont whip rush again this build, this was only for recording purposes!) Thanks for voluntarily gorging for this ogz.
On topic i'd say that whip needs to have a health penalty when moving to stop them being able to chase Marines so much, let them bounce bile bombs around corners (next patch) and fend off nades. Altering health wouldn't be practical so perhaps an armour reduction would work better.
I have to agree whips can chase marines a bit too easy, although you do kinda need that ability somewhat or else whips are back to useless.
@NurEinMensch: Thanks mate. Looking for this since quite some time.