NS2 gameplay stalemates
bobthesob
Join Date: 2011-12-09 Member: 137195Members
Join Date: 2011-12-09 Member: 137195Members
<div class="IPBDescription">a simple idea to fix it</div>Today i played two three hour long games. And there was some hour long ones as well. So i thought of this idea.....
Ok so right now as a alien you can win by killing all the ips and then all the marines. OR kill all the command chairs.
As a marines you can win by killing all the alien hives.
So i never played ns1 and i just got into ns2. I love the game play and the concept of building up a base. But the game play seems to be very structured towards defensive outcomes. Which is fine. But the games tend to last very long when both teams are trying to win. After about 50 mins the games get grindy. Its just not fun after that long for me.
So a simple way to fix this would be to add another layer on top. As stated above aliens have two ways to win. Marines have one. Basically to win you have to take out your opponent entirely. Or as alien get lucky with the ips.
So keep thos rules and add on top of that the simple battlefield conquest rules. At the start of the game both teams get x number of tickets. In battlefield the more flags you hold. The slower your tickets drain. In ns2 it would be the more tech points your team owns. The slower your tickets drain. So the rules that are in place now will still be in effect. If you take out your opponent you win. Get lucky with the ips as a alien you win. Add on top the effect of holding more tech points then your opponent. You win eventually. Now how long would it take to drain your opponents tickets. Depends but i would say configure so games don't last more then a hour at the most.
now i know people are already not going to like this idea. because its not the way ns1 was. but the fact is that games are commonly lasting way to long. So if you want to keep the game balanced and still have them end within a reasonable time. I think this would be the best way to go about it.
Anyone got any better ideas?
Ok so right now as a alien you can win by killing all the ips and then all the marines. OR kill all the command chairs.
As a marines you can win by killing all the alien hives.
So i never played ns1 and i just got into ns2. I love the game play and the concept of building up a base. But the game play seems to be very structured towards defensive outcomes. Which is fine. But the games tend to last very long when both teams are trying to win. After about 50 mins the games get grindy. Its just not fun after that long for me.
So a simple way to fix this would be to add another layer on top. As stated above aliens have two ways to win. Marines have one. Basically to win you have to take out your opponent entirely. Or as alien get lucky with the ips.
So keep thos rules and add on top of that the simple battlefield conquest rules. At the start of the game both teams get x number of tickets. In battlefield the more flags you hold. The slower your tickets drain. In ns2 it would be the more tech points your team owns. The slower your tickets drain. So the rules that are in place now will still be in effect. If you take out your opponent you win. Get lucky with the ips as a alien you win. Add on top the effect of holding more tech points then your opponent. You win eventually. Now how long would it take to drain your opponents tickets. Depends but i would say configure so games don't last more then a hour at the most.
now i know people are already not going to like this idea. because its not the way ns1 was. but the fact is that games are commonly lasting way to long. So if you want to keep the game balanced and still have them end within a reasonable time. I think this would be the best way to go about it.
Anyone got any better ideas?
Comments
(Warning) you will promptly receive some beatings. There is a strong feeling that NS2 is not another BF/COD (insert angry face), and your solution sounds quite familiar (BF Conquest mode). However, I completely agree (and most should) with the problem you have identified. Namely, that longer games (currently) can leave a stale taste in your mouth. This is because (and I hope) the late game elements (Jet Pack, Onos, EXO Suit, tons of upgrades, etc) have not been added in yet.
Great comments on the difference between how aliens/marines can win the game, that is something I don't foresee (in the immediate future) changing. Perhaps a more informed person can weigh in?
How to win as marine for dummies: build 10 arcs, drive them into alien hive, win
On a more serious note, the game you played lasting 2 hours presumably had 0 team effort, a bad com and a mountain of cluelessness.
Endgame tech hasn't been added yet which doesn't help the either.
That said, over an hour is a bit extreme even for NS1 standards (my friends and I always felt that 45 minutes was the sweet spot), and as already stated it is likely due to crappy (or more commonly: a complete lack of) comms and just general screwing around by the players. The games that are stalemates to that extent tend to have nothing going on whatsoever, instead of having a constant fight that happens to go nowhere.
Buuuuut I wouldn't get yourself too worried. The main stalemate breakers (onos, jetpack, heavy) aren't in just yet. In NS1 it was pretty much game over once one side got their end game stuff.
It essentially means you have the same frustrating end game gameplay, but forces the game to actually end.
The stalemate issue is more than a 'simple' fix.
However, I'd support this (or an end-timer based system) until a more permanent solution could be devised.
as a ono i should be able to run into the a marine base with 15 turrets and 10 marines and go to town. with a exosuit i should be able to do the same to the aliens.
Exactly. The Onos alone is/was a massive stalemate-breaker such that the Marines had about 30 minutes and then they simply got crushed. The Marines' (missing) upgrades made it very easy to get large amounts of territory quickly, though. So what you had originally in NS1 was a game where the aliens would win if they were left alone with enough time to get their bigger units working for them. And where the Marines had to move quickly and press hard. There were rarely long stalemates as a result.
Also, a lot of players simply play this like it's Unreal Tournament or COD or similar FPS type bash-fests. The game if properly played results in numerous opportunities for players to be rewarded for sneaky and devious play. Especially as the Aliens.
To the original poster: Play NS1 and you'll see exactly what I mean. It's a very challenging game for both sides, but rarely has a long-term stalemate happen. The play-balance is nearly perfect and the maps are very well done.
Another thing to note is that stalemates WERE possible in NS1, and some people were very good at them (Blue as commander on ns_caged comes to mind...)
However, because it was a fully developed game it did have stalemate-breaker possibilities. Not just explicit things like "onos help you attack into bunkered areas." A popular late-game tactic to get your team past a defensive line was to sneak in as a gorge and drop a hive in the turtled area. Your team would then hive-walk (use key on a living hive to get to the newly built one) and start fighting from behind the marines' lines.
Stalemates in that game mostly came down to the marines, because their building/commanding model put them in a position to turtle more easily (siege cannons trump any number of gorge buildings over time).
Like Grizzy said, NS2 will solve the stalemate problem when it has fully developed tech trees, better performance and more knowledgeable players. Right now probably half the people you see in-game have less than 30 FPS and didn't play NS1 for thousands of hours like some of us!
One was purposely prolonged by one team not covering one hive, so there the stale mate wasn't because the game was so evenly matched but because the tactical side of the game was being played badly.
Another was because the commander was pretty average and he didn't have the tactical ability to give key members of the team different weapons/ JP or HA to suit them so they'd be more effective to win the game.
Stalemates aren't caused by game imbalance or any simple gameplay directive. Currently with a feature incomplete game you are likely to get longer or drawn out games or really short games, that's natural in the testing phase. In general, stalemates are created by players doing something wrong, you don't need balance to tell you that.
I like the idea of some force in the game driving it to a conclusion. But I'm not sure I like the idea of some arbitrary "okgameisoverNOW" points or ticket-based system. At least not as the primary force, but maybe as a backup system only.
I sort of like forces that influence the gameplay towards ending, without just ending the game suddenly. If anyone is familiar with David Sirlin and his games, he is recently experimenting with adding a rule called "PANIC TIME" to his game "Puzzle Strike". (he made a post about it here: <a href="http://www.sirlin.net/blog/2011/11/30/puzzle-strike-and-flash-duel-news.html" target="_blank">http://www.sirlin.net/blog/2011/11/30/puzz...-duel-news.html</a> )
"This rule increases the size of the ante as the game goes on. It will have a relatively small effect on most games played by experts, but it will have an enormous effect (to prevent overly long games) on games by new players."
And it does this by being a part of the game, rather than just adding an arbitrary backup win-condition.