The Second Hive
Racer1
Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9615Members
Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9615Members
It seems (almost) every time I play, both teams rush for the second hive location; and whichever team makes it to the second base and sets up (e.g. humans with phase/turrets or aliens with hive), they will win about 90% of the time. There are, of course, exceptions to this: such as when skulks rush at the beginning or when there are bad gorges/commanders. But for the most part, I've never seen any team come up with a different strategy that wins as often as the "second hive" strategy. Has anyone seen a different strategy that works well? Comments?
On a side note (to mix things up a little), how about providing the possibility for mappers to create maps with fourth hive (while still allowing the current three-hive method)? The "four-hive" maps would start the same as current maps, but instead of aliens getting fades on their second hive, they would get a lifeform somewhere between skulk and fade. They would then get fade on the third hive and onos on the fourth. To balance it out, humans would possibly need to have one or two more building types before they could upgrade to heavy armor/weapons.
This would obviously require some new models, game code, and another chamber type, so it would be no light task. However, if implemented, it could allow an alternate style of gameplay than that of the current three-hive maps. In the end, this would create a more strategy-based, and probably longer, game that would pit fairly even teams against each other. Again, this would be an alternate gameplay style map; not a replacement for the current.
On a side note (to mix things up a little), how about providing the possibility for mappers to create maps with fourth hive (while still allowing the current three-hive method)? The "four-hive" maps would start the same as current maps, but instead of aliens getting fades on their second hive, they would get a lifeform somewhere between skulk and fade. They would then get fade on the third hive and onos on the fourth. To balance it out, humans would possibly need to have one or two more building types before they could upgrade to heavy armor/weapons.
This would obviously require some new models, game code, and another chamber type, so it would be no light task. However, if implemented, it could allow an alternate style of gameplay than that of the current three-hive maps. In the end, this would create a more strategy-based, and probably longer, game that would pit fairly even teams against each other. Again, this would be an alternate gameplay style map; not a replacement for the current.
Comments
1. You get the hive up but its sieged
2. You get the hive up, but get no resources, since the marines keep killing your res towers.
3. You get the hive up but lack the defenses to protect it, and it's rushed by a hord of mad marines.
4. You get the hive up, but the marines have more resources, and out-tech you, and kill all your fades/lerks with hvy and jetpack marines.
A second hive is not even close to winning the game, it's at this point the game gets interesting.
On public servers it's probably more game winning, since players generally suck, and lack the coordination to take back the hive, or in other way disrupt the opposing team.
Why do you think that the 2nd hive has to be built at 1 location? There are 2 available locations. So if the marines take one. You build in the other, get fades, and go take over the 3rd location. Most games the marines take over a location, but that one becomes our 3rd hive.
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I mean the second hive for each team. In other words, the aliens already have a hive at start so they need to take one more to have the "second hive". The marines have to take two hives. I'm not saying that either is easier (that's a different arguement), I'm just saying that once you get the second hive (which occurs in the first 5-8 minutes of the game), you can make a safe bet as to who will win. My idea extends that 5-8 minutes to at least 15 minutes as it lets there be some battle for the middle ground and puts the teams on even footing for a longer time. I've seen many a server where the aliens didn't get the second hive (or, to a lesser extent, where humans didn't get it) and people just gave up and left the team to restart the match. My suggestion attempts to alleviate this problem by making the first few minutes somewhat less critical.
Fades are currently the game winner in pub games because most pub players will not attack a fade. They run, they cower, they beg for bigger weapons. True, you are in a bind if the enemy team has fades and your commander hasn't even started on Arms Lab Upgrades, but even in this situation, the world is not over. Fades can be killed with LMG/LA, it just takes a little knowledge of how to deal with them, knowledge easily gained if you have played alien as a fade a few times. I've discussed in too many threads how to deal with fades, so I wont go into it here...
I don't understand why people are getting all hot and bothered about the 2nd hive. This is the objective of the game. This is what both teams are fighting for, it is like the flag in CTF, or the Bomb in CS. If you don't like fighting for the hive, wait a few months for a later version of NS that has Marine vs Marine maps, those will be all about resource control, many more points to fight for and worry about, you are lucky there are only 3 places to be really concerned about in Alien vs. Marine situations...
But as long as it is there, it is not so easy to kil a fade, especially if the fade was so clever to be a gorge before and build up 3 DC and 4 OC nearby to heal himself and get cover.
I use this technique and killed dozens of marines one after another or in couples.