Time for open beta?
Racer1
Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9615Members
Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9615Members
With Onos coming soon, and rumors of exosuit on the way, I'm wondering if its time for ns2 to go open beta. It would be a shot in the arm for PR and would bring some new players (and money) into the mix (especially if done before Christmas break).
P.S. If this is done, be sure to list significantly high minimum system specs as the beta does not perform very well on low-powered gaming PCs (yet).
P.S. If this is done, be sure to list significantly high minimum system specs as the beta does not perform very well on low-powered gaming PCs (yet).
Comments
Like you said yourself, it does not perform very well on low-powered gaming PCs yet. Take it relatively, the performance across similar hardware is still not consistent, so open beta would kill the hype in the game.
I think NS2 is more CPU intensive than GPU intensive, so anyone with a <i>weak</i> CPU will struggle to get a decent (playable) performance; this may not be the case today though. Some performance drops might be due to the server(tickrate).
Not a lot of people respect that the title is, indeed, in <b>beta</b> and, more often than not, always expect a beta release to be a near-final representation of a product, when that is truly not (usually ever) the case (I don't mean in terms of graphics, I mean in terms of play-ability).
My rig gets great performance from the game. I've not seen any lag/slowdown yet - Except from when a round properly starts, and you're 're-spawned' - but I need to play it more thoroughly!
All in all, I think the game looks and plays superbly. But I wouldn't let it get out to the mercy of the 'general public'. They'll tear it to pieces, as not everyone can appreciate the kind of work going on here.
If you were the developer, would you rather:
1) Keep the game 'Closed', keep things under wraps [as that builds anticipation] and have a dedicated community of testers who will provide constant, consistent & quality feedback.
2) Release the game to the public in 'Beta' form, and have the possibility of it receiving bad press; with the majority of users not contributing to the community or submitting bugs/flaws - But rather telling their friends to avoid the game because it's buggy.
I've seen it happen. It's not pretty :/
It's still a fun game but I wouldn't say its beta quality
It's still a fun game but I wouldn't say its beta quality<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you play the alpha? Sound and animation glitches are nothing compared to what we had in alpha.
UWE would need to rent lots of servers, you cant just make an open beta an have 100% user driven servers - i mean right now there are 2(1 is not 24/7 online) EU servers, 1 AUS, ~4 US Servers with good enough hardware. (all the other servers are crap, and make ns2 look bad)
So at best, thats place for 112 players worldwide.(if 16 slots, which is already too much for the 4,5ghz servers)
First we need to optimized server clients, so regular gameserver hosters can be used.
E.g. you can get a 64players bf3 server for 60-70€ per month but with stable tickrates.
You cant get that for ns2 atm, im pretty sure the hardware used for such a bf3 server would only give us ~14 slots and not stable tickrates but at the same pricepoint...
Nobody would rent that.
<u><b>The plan was to have up to 32 player servers if im not wrong? - we are very far away from this number.</b></u> (there is no hardware available that can do this atm)
But again even if server hardware wasnt the problem, you cant make an open beta without renting lots of servers for your customers to give them space to play(hey here is an open beta, but its your job too spent money for a place to play... Oo) - i dont think uwe has that much money to promote the game that way... (renting dozens of servers worldwide)
Open betas are advertising nothing more - cost lots of money for devs.
What i could see is after release a free weekend(after you have a few hundred servers from players), but nothing else...
1. primary features are complete, but with minor features unfinished
2. mostly stable, but with occasional problems
3. still has bugs
4. unpolished (including performance/balance issues)
...but is otherwise generally playable and "fun".
So, if you are waiting for a game that has all features working and optimized, then in my opinion, you are looking for a final product (NS2 1.0 gold). It is of course up to UW to decide when/if they do it, but I think once the Onos/exo get added, it will be ready.
I think not...if the game is fully fluent and runs smooth then!
But if people now try and don't know thats a beta (trust me, the community even hits a red button if there is a text like "DO NOT HIT OR YOU GET HURT" and they will get hurt...if you understand what i mean) they will complain and cry about the peformence (how it is now).
I guess a open beta is good but only AFTER the game was released over steam, like every other game on steam ^^
The game don't getting old*, but the game will be better and better (i hope for the support but with UWE im very sure.)
*the graphics can be always updated, thats the good thing with UWE's own engine i guess :)
Well, I would technically call what we first had access to was a pre-alpha (though, I suppose it was called engine test). I still remember shooting pop-up targets with an assault rifle that you couldn't reload :)
I think he's talking about the real Alpha which was unplayable with more than 3 people.
No, but the point is its not up to beta quality yet. The whole reason me and my brother bought world of warcraft if because of the impression the open beta left on us, i dont recall encountering a single bug while playing that beta. I played NS1 since its initial release, so I know how fun the game is, but the people who have never played it do not (95% of my friends have never even heard of NS). When everyone is bragging about how awesome NS2 is, that's when it should go into open beta :). I've been following NS2's dev news almost every day for years now with the intention of always buying it, just got my GF to buy it for me for christmas a week ago because it looks like its coming along nicely now (and the increased number of DEVs working on it).
Beta
Beta (named after the second letter of the Greek alphabet) is the software development phase following alpha. CHECK.
It <u>generally</u>* begins when the software is feature complete [Usually a feature complete software still has to undergo testing and bug fixing as well performance or stability enhancing before it can go to release candidate and finally gold status.]. CHECK, though "features" in this case would be referred to assets. This is probably the only exception those calling it an alpha have to argue. While mostly valid, there are other things that define what a beta is.
Software in the beta phase will generally have many more bugs in it than completed software, as well as speed/performance issues. CHECK
The focus of beta testing is reducing impacts to users, often incorporating usability testing. CHECK
The process of delivering a beta version to the users is called beta release and this is typically the first time that the software is available outside of the organization that developed it. CHECK.
*In most cases; usually.
Just because giant game companies, corporations, etc have seem to "set the standard" of what a beta is. I honestly don't feel this is right.
I think (an approximate) feature-completion is how it would usually be defined (this doesn't exclude the addition of new features, or the removal of existing ones).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Beta (named after the second letter of the Greek alphabet) is the software development phase following alpha. CHECK.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Check? Okay it followed an alpha (which may or may not have actually been an alpha), but that doesn't add to its credibility as a beta in any way.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It <u>generally</u>* begins when the software is feature complete [Usually a feature complete software still has to undergo testing and bug fixing as well performance or stability enhancing before it can go to release candidate and finally gold status.]. CHECK, though "features" in this case would be referred to assets. This is probably the only exception those calling it an alpha have to argue. While mostly valid, there are other things that define what a beta is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not check, we're missing huge parts of the gameplay.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Software in the beta phase will generally have many more bugs in it than completed software, as well as speed/performance issues. CHECK<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not check. The fact it has performance issues and bugs isn't a testament to it being a beta, just that it isn't a completed piece of software.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The focus of beta testing is reducing impacts to users, often incorporating usability testing. CHECK<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not check, this requires a somewhat defined feature-set. Often enough whole things have been scrapped from the game, newly implemented, or heavily changed, not really fine-tuning in the true sense of the word.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The process of delivering a beta version to the users is called beta release and this is typically the first time that the software is available outside of the organization that developed it. CHECK.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not check. The software has been accessible all the way from engine-test, alpha to what we have now in exactly the same way, nothing has changed in the transition from alpha to beta in this regard. Not really a release of sorts.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just because giant game companies, corporations, etc have seem to "set the standard" of what a beta is. I honestly don't feel this is right.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Check here I guess. TF2\SC2 and alike haven't really been betas, they were a bit too polished for it.
I don't believe NS2 is a beta currently. But really, what's in a name anyway, whether it's called a techdemo\alpha\beta shouldn't affect how you personally experience the game, it's just arguing over semantics pretty much.
Also, is pre-orderer a word?
*Basically, can we focus on the words "open" and "closed", as opposed to the word "beta"? I don't really understand what an open beta is supposed to be, as it relates to NS2. What, a trial up until the game is complete? A preview build? A demo? Does not require pre-ordering?
definitely not
True !
I remember when I was a "beta test" of Star Wars Galaxy© have to pay the installation CDs and shipping costs (I know, i'm a ######). This doesn't change much from NaturalSelection 2 Beta. You pay, you play. Then You have the game when it's done. What could be more logical?
And this is exactly why I asked.
It is an "open" beta because it is open to anyone who has pre-ordered, and it is a "closed" beta because it is closed to people who have not pre-ordered.
Maybe what OP means is the phenomenon where "open beta" is the new "demo", according to Triple-A game releases. i.e. you apply for a key, you get to play for free until just before release day. The same publishers may also adopt the "early release" beta model, similar, I guess, to NS2, but basically an all-but-complete game, whereas NS2 is still developing (more like how Overgrowth is and how Minecraft was).
Anyway, a possible timeline for NS2:
(closed "beta") -> [open beta*, release candidate] -> <gold (v1.0)>
(open to pre-orderers) -> [open to anyone (with a key?)] -> <closed to non-purchasers>
(bug squashing, feature completion, major optimisation) -> [further optimisation, tweaks, balancing, squashing remaining bugs, solving individual-set-up-specific issues] -> <release; post-release support>
*This would be, essentially, the preview/trial/demo phase, a la the major AAA releases.
Think they'll manage to get it all done by Halloween 2012? They've gotta, it'll be the 10 year anniversary!
It's an open beta when you put it on the site and tell thousands or even millions of people who haven't paid for the game, who keep checking in on it, they can try it for free before they buy the full product.
If people can play for free right up until release, odds are over an extended period of time they won't buy it. Short-term, they're more likely to. This tactic is best used as described above, before release and as an early access, typically 1-2 weeks before full live date.
Perhaps NS2 could have an invite-only beta phase following the current closed beta phase and prior to the "open beta" phase, where people who have already pre-ordered the game can get a beta key(s), and send it to a friend(s).
The bottom line is that if UWE calls it a beta, that's how the community should understand it to be. UWE needs that backing, and I'm there for them 100%.
Let's take the focus off this type of discussion in latter times simply because it's not helping the development process anyway.
The only reason that NS2 is under development is that Charlie and others released a great free mod called NS1, that got a small but dedicated following.
When Charlie needed money to develop NS2, lots of NS1 players bought the game unseen, enough so that Charlie actually had the money to do a proper development.
Releasing an early in-dev version of the game lets us rabid NS1 players get a sense, a feel for what's going on, and let other people that didn't play NS1 get in on the game too.
It also lets those of us that are impatient and interested speed up the game development a bit by playtesting, giving suggestions, fixing bugs and modding stuff up a bit.
The NS2 development cycle is heavily community dependent, and does not really fit into the standard alpha/beta stuff.
The only reason that NS2 is under development is that Charlie and others released a great free mod called NS1, that got a small but dedicated following.
When Charlie needed money to develop NS2, lots of NS1 players bought the game unseen, enough so that Charlie actually had the money to do a proper development.
Releasing an early in-dev version of the game lets us rabid NS1 players get a sense, a feel for what's going on, and let other people that didn't play NS1 get in on the game too.
It also lets those of us that are impatient and interested speed up the game development a bit by playtesting, giving suggestions, fixing bugs and modding stuff up a bit.
The NS2 development cycle is heavily community dependent, and does not really fit into the standard alpha/beta stuff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I also find it amusing that people try to mix up all these traditional waterfall model driven testing terminology with agile and community based methologies. Especially when people start to quote wikipedia and preach how right they are. Good laughs!
Most 'betas' I've seen are treated by players as a free game they play for a while, for bragging rights on forum signatures and that kind of thing. The vast majority of people don't submit bug reports or offer useful feedback the way the current NS2 community does.
Like everyone has said, the last thing UWE needs is bad press at this moment. It would be great to have more players/servers in the game, but you have to set that in motion at a time when it's not so likely to backfire.
Even when the game is released, it will basically be an open beta that is paid for. There will still be a ton of balancing, bug fixing and testing across different hardware setups to be accounted for. But the game itself will be good enough to get a huge thumbs-up from gaming sites, so it will attract players in a healthy way.
Most 'betas' I've seen are treated by players as a free game they play for a while, for bragging rights on forum signatures and that kind of thing. The vast majority of people don't submit bug reports or offer useful feedback the way the current NS2 community does.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wouldn't presume the NS2 community is any more special than any other game that goes through an open beta.