<!--quoteo(post=1893737:date=Jan 12 2012, 03:25 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Jan 12 2012, 03:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893737"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That movement issue might has something to do with the newly implemented wall jumping system. You can gain speed/momentum by jumping and pushing off walls (the effect is less on the floor) as a Skulk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, that video was recorded in build 189 before the jumping mechanic was in. It's the same in 190 though.
Our main hive was in sub access. When trying to create a cyst inside pipe junction as the commander, my client will freeze. This bug reproducible was reproducible for another commander.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2012
Well this build was certainly something out in left field. Some good, some bad and lots of weird changes. Some assorted thoughts:
1. The return to the NS1 style alien upgrade system is great. All the upgrades should be connected to the chambers though, including swarm and frenzy if they are kept in. Maybe add a fourth chamber for offensive upgrades? Also need to block aliens from taking several upgrades from one chamber. Right now you can get both carapace and regen at the same time. You should have to make a conscious choice of whether you want more staying power (more armor) or the ability to not have to run back to the hive all the time (regeneration), for example.
2. The new innate regeneration is a bit too fast as Lerk and Fade. Doesn't make much sense to choose regeneration over carapace when the innate regen is already quite effective.
3. The mine spam became unbearable even in the first round I played. It's only going to get worse. I don't really understand how it's possible to make this mistake -- it's so easy to make the comparison with NS1. Back then the comm had to drop the mines, which usually ment that you didn't see a lot of mines, except for very selective strategical use, because the comm had to choose between dropping mines or all the other things that needed to be dropped/built (easy choice). The lerk/gorge/infestation killing mines isn't going to fix that. Either the mines need to be prohobitively expensive (you're probably still going to see a lot of mine spam since a lot of people will choose to get them over guns because they can't aim anyway) or make them droppable by the comm only.
4. The shotgun is finally fixed. Halleluja! Considering how effective they are (I was able to rack up around 56-4 as marine on my third round today), aliens are going to be struggling a lot more now. It is finally going to show how utterly useless the lerk "crop duster" spores are as well. It's very easy to one-shot Lerks with shotguns now, so trying to fly in and drop spores is basically a kamikazi run in this version.
5. Performance seems a little bit better, but still far from where it needs to be.
6. The improved walljump is nice, but it definitely isn't "skill based movement" nor does it help balance melee vs. ranged combat -- it's really just a mini leap you can only do off walls and ramps. The speed boost on flat ground is negligible.
7. Facepalm at whoever thought it would be a good idea to add a delay between shooting a parasite and being able to use the skulk's bite attack. You've basically destroyed the beauty of "2 bites + para kills armor 0 marine" in one fell swoop. We need less weapon switching delays, not more!
8. Lower powernode HP is good and bad. It's good because we don't have to spend as much time standing around looking at it while pressing +use or +attack, but it's bad because marine bases are extraordinarily vulnerable to baserushes now. I expect to see a ridiculous amount of alien rushes to marine start wins in this version, until the marine team starts spamming turrets and mines at their marine start powernode. Also have to ask if this doesn't show how pointless the powergrid system is. Remind me what it adds to gameplay anyone?
9. Controls feel perfect when the server is running at 30 ticks stable and client at 80 fps. Great job with that. When both start dropping, it gets sluggish again, so I guess the remaining issues are tied to server/client performance.
10. The pistol primary fire is a bit weird now. You can still shoot it pretty fast, but if you click very fast it hiccups quite a lot and starts not registering clicks. What's up with that?
11. Hive sometimes plays "the hive is dying" sound even when the hive is at as much as 90% health.
12. The new spawn queue text is very informative and should clear up a lot of "OMG EGGS ARE BUGGED AGAIN WTF" misunderstandings, good job.
13. The "invincibility globe" on hit sound effect is ridiculously loud and plays really spammy leading to some on the server calling it the "dubstep ball". Try attacking a structure that has been "globe'd" with the skulk repeatedly and you'll understand what they meant by that. It's even worse with the lerk spikes, as the sound plays for every spike hit.
14. Fades are still overpowered and have a very shallow learning curve. Still boring to play as well, largely because it moves so slowly around the map and a large portion of your playtime is spent outside of combat, either waiting for your energy to recharge or running to and from the hive. The only challenge is knowing when to press mouse2 to escape (the "I win button") and having enough patience for the energy bar to replenish properly before going into combat again.
15. New loading screens and victory music is nice.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Spurs control the level of upgrades for those structures. So three Shells will give aliens defensive upgrades level 3 (1 structure will give level 1, etc.).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't really think this system explains itself very well or makes much sense in general to new players. It would be easier to explain and understand if it was hive count that determined the level of the upgrades. As currently you would need to place 3 of them hidden away in some corner.
Also the evolve menu still has the personal res indicator showing up, which means two res indicators show when you are in the evolve menu.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1893730:date=Jan 12 2012, 04:13 AM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Jan 12 2012, 04:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893730"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Server performance has been pretty sketchy for me. Maybe I've had bad luck but the ones I go to always start stuttering/warping as they fill up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The only servers that have enough CPU power to keep a stable tick rate is HBZ (europe), Inversion #1 and #2 (USA) and some-server-in-australia-I-can't-remember-the-name-of.
<!--quoteo(post=1893753:date=Jan 11 2012, 11:54 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Jan 11 2012, 11:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893753"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Some assorted thoughts<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Excellent post. That pretty much sums up my thoughts.
Although, on the last game I played, my team RR'd because they couldn't spawn even though we had plenty of eggs. Maybe the spawn bug really has returned?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well this build was certainly something out in left field. Some good, some bad and lots of weird changes. Some assorted thoughts:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1893759:date=Jan 12 2012, 12:20 AM:name=Jaweese)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jaweese @ Jan 12 2012, 12:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893759"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Excellent post. That pretty much sums up my thoughts.
Although, on the last game I played, my team RR'd because they couldn't spawn even though we had plenty of eggs. Maybe the spawn bug really has returned?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed I noticed when attacking a hive there were eggs and yet we leveled a bunch of players.. players should have been spawning instead of eggs just sitting there, unless someone forgot to press mouse1 but I doubt it :\ they might have been frustrated at all the mines though and preparing to quit.. I don't blame them - what do you think is better, being able to kill marines but potentially slip onto a mine and die or go gorge and remove the mines but have to pay individual res and potentially sacrifice the lifeform, and not be able to kill marines? This seems to be the decision aliens have to make because the mines are spammy. Perhaps have hydras target mines?
With that said.. hydras seems to be a lot less powerful than NS1 Offense Chambers.. maybe have them able to evolve like the crag, whip, etc? (mature)
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
about the skulk: what you describe as animation problem or movement responsiveness is related to how the model changes it's angles (roll). you see in the video that under certain situations (falling off the ceiling) the model can remain a short time on it's back when falling on the ground. I will fix that problem for the next build (gorilla!), i hope you still can enjoy the improved movement system, even with this little bug :)
SloppyKissesomgawd a furreh!VirginiaJoin Date: 2003-07-05Member: 17942Members, Constellation
edited January 2012
Decent performance increase from previous 189 but the fps drops are still horribly noticeable though and still sort of makes it not worth the headache of playing after about 40 minutes or so >.< None the less the performance gain is very noticeable. I can only hope it continues :V
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->Date: 01/12/12 Time: 11:15:41 -------------------------------------------------------------- Build 190 Starting Natural Selection 2 RenderDevice: AMD Radeon HD 6800 Series (X.X.XXX.XXX) Connecting to server 95.156.232.240:27015 Error: Sound 'materials/door/onos_step' couldn't be loaded (Event not found) [...] I switch the normal error info Script Error: lua/Sentry.lua:220: attempt to perform arithmetic on global 'kConfusedSentryBaseROF' (a nil value) lua/Sentry.lua:220 Load [C]:-1 lua/Shared.lua:70 Load [C]:-1 lua/Client.lua:12 Client class hierarchy for sentry does not match server class Game::GetEntity(2048) but only 2048 entities, returning nil. (To 2048 to 3072) Game::GetEntity(3072) but only 2048 entities, returning nil. Client: Entity index out of range Couldn't create entity 0 on client (sync aborted)<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
Work perfect in 189, no lag bug or anythinh else. And now, can't connect on any server, even local. :(
I was a carapace fade and was 1-shot down to 69 hp from a shotgun. A shotgunner could easily make me (Lerk) have to retreat when the distance between us were atleast 10m (no weapon upgrade). 2 LMGs was enough to almost instantly kill me as a lerk. I can't enter turret-filled rooms no matter what lifeform I'm.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Optimized Lua memory allocator<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm curious; What changes did you make (and where)?
I don't care so much that marines got better at attacking, its the fact that you cant counter attack them because there are mines everywhere. Armour drop was probably a bit to much. Aliens getting mowed down. Increase Armour a bit and take away mines as they really kill the game. With the new nano shields which I thought was a great idea that helped in the crucial times, marines will fair a lot better on attack without being unstoppable. But game getting smoother.
I thought sprint would have been taken out for sure by now.. marines are able to run the opposite way around the map quite quickly and ironically it's not too fast but just fast enough that people don't become astray and they often show up in those places as a small group or even squad.
Also, new tactics open up like being able to retreat rapidly behind mine fields.. which people seem to have realized lol
There are definitely some nice ideas in this patch, but obviously the balance has been thrown massively out once again. Those the LMG seem really powerful now or is it the armour has dropped for aliens? A fade will go down in one clip and fighting as a lerk seems too painful now. Im sure it will all be fixed soon ready for our new Onos and jetpack toys!
<u>A couple of suggestions now:</u>
<b>Alien HUD massively needs a revamp more than ever due to the change in evolution path, like marines would be very nice to see what level our upgrades are at and also whos commanding and what they spent money on. Also can we get a cancel button should we accidentally upgrade a whip or something.
Lerk should have secondary attack (right mouse) as spore and move the shotgun spikes to weapon 2.
Make mines a commander based drop again and use energy from the armoury or something not personal res.
Sort out the volume levels for new sound effects nano shield and gorge spit hit (my ear drums!).</b>
feels like a good patch. Not tested everything yet, and only tried alien two rounds. I like the new sounds and effects.
Feels balanced toward marines, but when i stop sucking so much as alien it will probably get getter. Gotta learn to stay off the floor since there are mines everywhere, and they actually kill you now.
I guess it's good we finally got an update but it's disappointing to see the good stuff held back, don't let this update be an excuse to take months to bring us the onos, mineshaft, jetpack, server downloads etc, we want something new to play with every so often, it's feels like it's been ages since we had any proper content.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
They will get released once they are done, currently they aren't in a state that would make them useful in game anyway as both the Onos and the Jetpack are working, but not working as intended. But what about the improved performance and gameplay, surely those are quite nice to have *ahem mines, but they can be countered... kinda :P*
fsfodukJoin Date: 2004-04-09Member: 27810Members, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
It seems the engine is ignoring custom entrypoint lua files specified in game_setup.xml also I'm kinda disappointed that the loading screen is not done in lua
I gathered some win/lose data using <a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?map=ns2_summit&version=190" target="_blank">http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/disp...amp;version=190</a>
W/L Ratio on ns2_summit when games:
<b>Were under 600 seconds long (<10 min):</b> M 68, A 87 (M: 43.90%, A: 56.10%)
<b>Were over 600 seconds long (>10 min):</b> M 53, A 27 (M: 66.30%, A: 33.70%)
<b>Were over 1200 seconds long (>20 min):</b> M 37, A 10 (M: 78.70%, A: 21.30%)
<b>Total W/L:</b> M 121, A 124 (M: 49.40%, A: 50.60%)
<b>Total Average Match Length:</b> 787 seconds (13 min 7 seconds)
Hope I got everything right.
Probably obvious already that the marine win chance increases with each minute of the game. There need to be better balance. Hopefully new features in the future (like onos) will help :)
<!--quoteo(post=1893753:date=Jan 12 2012, 04:54 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Jan 12 2012, 04:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893753"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->13. The "invincibility globe" on hit sound effect is ridiculously loud and plays really spammy leading to some on the server calling it the "dubstep ball". Try attacking a structure that has been "globe'd" with the skulk repeatedly and you'll understand what they meant by that. <u>It's even worse with the lerk spikes, as the sound plays for every spike hit.</u><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In that case its the "speedcore ball". It probably kicks some ass >:D
<!--quoteo(post=1893820:date=Jan 12 2012, 12:41 PM:name=fsfod)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fsfod @ Jan 12 2012, 12:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893820"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It seems the engine is ignoring custom entrypoint lua files specified in game_setup.xml<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Confirmed, it completely bricked the admin-mod. Hope the devs are aware of the issue.
Comments
No, that video was recorded in build 189 before the jumping mechanic was in. It's the same in 190 though.
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->if (touchingNewSurface)
{
if (surfacesTouched > 0)
slowSmoothLerp();
else
veryFastLerp();
}<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
Then it wouldn't look like a Boeing 747 doing a barrel roll onto the ground :P
build: 190
map: ns2_summit
1. The return to the NS1 style alien upgrade system is great. All the upgrades should be connected to the chambers though, including swarm and frenzy if they are kept in. Maybe add a fourth chamber for offensive upgrades? Also need to block aliens from taking several upgrades from one chamber. Right now you can get both carapace and regen at the same time. You should have to make a conscious choice of whether you want more staying power (more armor) or the ability to not have to run back to the hive all the time (regeneration), for example.
2. The new innate regeneration is a bit too fast as Lerk and Fade. Doesn't make much sense to choose regeneration over carapace when the innate regen is already quite effective.
3. The mine spam became unbearable even in the first round I played. It's only going to get worse. I don't really understand how it's possible to make this mistake -- it's so easy to make the comparison with NS1. Back then the comm had to drop the mines, which usually ment that you didn't see a lot of mines, except for very selective strategical use, because the comm had to choose between dropping mines or all the other things that needed to be dropped/built (easy choice). The lerk/gorge/infestation killing mines isn't going to fix that. Either the mines need to be prohobitively expensive (you're probably still going to see a lot of mine spam since a lot of people will choose to get them over guns because they can't aim anyway) or make them droppable by the comm only.
4. The shotgun is finally fixed. Halleluja! Considering how effective they are (I was able to rack up around 56-4 as marine on my third round today), aliens are going to be struggling a lot more now. It is finally going to show how utterly useless the lerk "crop duster" spores are as well. It's very easy to one-shot Lerks with shotguns now, so trying to fly in and drop spores is basically a kamikazi run in this version.
5. Performance seems a little bit better, but still far from where it needs to be.
6. The improved walljump is nice, but it definitely isn't "skill based movement" nor does it help balance melee vs. ranged combat -- it's really just a mini leap you can only do off walls and ramps. The speed boost on flat ground is negligible.
7. Facepalm at whoever thought it would be a good idea to add a delay between shooting a parasite and being able to use the skulk's bite attack. You've basically destroyed the beauty of "2 bites + para kills armor 0 marine" in one fell swoop. We need less weapon switching delays, not more!
8. Lower powernode HP is good and bad. It's good because we don't have to spend as much time standing around looking at it while pressing +use or +attack, but it's bad because marine bases are extraordinarily vulnerable to baserushes now. I expect to see a ridiculous amount of alien rushes to marine start wins in this version, until the marine team starts spamming turrets and mines at their marine start powernode. Also have to ask if this doesn't show how pointless the powergrid system is. Remind me what it adds to gameplay anyone?
9. Controls feel perfect when the server is running at 30 ticks stable and client at 80 fps. Great job with that. When both start dropping, it gets sluggish again, so I guess the remaining issues are tied to server/client performance.
10. The pistol primary fire is a bit weird now. You can still shoot it pretty fast, but if you click very fast it hiccups quite a lot and starts not registering clicks. What's up with that?
11. Hive sometimes plays "the hive is dying" sound even when the hive is at as much as 90% health.
12. The new spawn queue text is very informative and should clear up a lot of "OMG EGGS ARE BUGGED AGAIN WTF" misunderstandings, good job.
13. The "invincibility globe" on hit sound effect is ridiculously loud and plays really spammy leading to some on the server calling it the "dubstep ball". Try attacking a structure that has been "globe'd" with the skulk repeatedly and you'll understand what they meant by that. It's even worse with the lerk spikes, as the sound plays for every spike hit.
14. Fades are still overpowered and have a very shallow learning curve. Still boring to play as well, largely because it moves so slowly around the map and a large portion of your playtime is spent outside of combat, either waiting for your energy to recharge or running to and from the hive. The only challenge is knowing when to press mouse2 to escape (the "I win button") and having enough patience for the energy bar to replenish properly before going into combat again.
15. New loading screens and victory music is nice.
I don't really think this system explains itself very well or makes much sense in general to new players. It would be easier to explain and understand if it was hive count that determined the level of the upgrades. As currently you would need to place 3 of them hidden away in some corner.
Also the evolve menu still has the personal res indicator showing up, which means two res indicators show when you are in the evolve menu.
The only servers that have enough CPU power to keep a stable tick rate is HBZ (europe), Inversion #1 and #2 (USA) and some-server-in-australia-I-can't-remember-the-name-of.
Excellent post. That pretty much sums up my thoughts.
Although, on the last game I played, my team RR'd because they couldn't spawn even though we had plenty of eggs. Maybe the spawn bug really has returned?
Nice post and sums it up well.
+2
Although, on the last game I played, my team RR'd because they couldn't spawn even though we had plenty of eggs. Maybe the spawn bug really has returned?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed I noticed when attacking a hive there were eggs and yet we leveled a bunch of players.. players should have been spawning instead of eggs just sitting there, unless someone forgot to press mouse1 but I doubt it :\ they might have been frustrated at all the mines though and preparing to quit.. I don't blame them - what do you think is better, being able to kill marines but potentially slip onto a mine and die or go gorge and remove the mines but have to pay individual res and potentially sacrifice the lifeform, and not be able to kill marines? This seems to be the decision aliens have to make because the mines are spammy. Perhaps have hydras target mines?
With that said.. hydras seems to be a lot less powerful than NS1 Offense Chambers.. maybe have them able to evolve like the crag, whip, etc? (mature)
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->Date: 01/12/12
Time: 11:15:41
--------------------------------------------------------------
Build 190
Starting Natural Selection 2
RenderDevice: AMD Radeon HD 6800 Series (X.X.XXX.XXX)
Connecting to server 95.156.232.240:27015
Error: Sound 'materials/door/onos_step' couldn't be loaded (Event not found)
[...] I switch the normal error info
Script Error: lua/Sentry.lua:220: attempt to perform arithmetic on global 'kConfusedSentryBaseROF' (a nil value)
lua/Sentry.lua:220
Load [C]:-1
lua/Shared.lua:70
Load [C]:-1
lua/Client.lua:12
Client class hierarchy for sentry does not match server class
Game::GetEntity(2048) but only 2048 entities, returning nil.
(To 2048 to 3072)
Game::GetEntity(3072) but only 2048 entities, returning nil.
Client: Entity index out of range
Couldn't create entity 0 on client (sync aborted)<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
Work perfect in 189, no lag bug or anythinh else. And now, can't connect on any server, even local. :(
I was a carapace fade and was 1-shot down to 69 hp from a shotgun. A shotgunner could easily make me (Lerk) have to retreat when the distance between us were atleast 10m (no weapon upgrade). 2 LMGs was enough to almost instantly kill me as a lerk. I can't enter turret-filled rooms no matter what lifeform I'm.
Marines slaughter alien lifeforms at the moment.
I'm curious; What changes did you make (and where)?
Also, new tactics open up like being able to retreat rapidly behind mine fields.. which people seem to have realized lol
<u>A couple of suggestions now:</u>
<b>Alien HUD massively needs a revamp more than ever due to the change in evolution path, like marines would be very nice to see what level our upgrades are at and also whos commanding and what they spent money on. Also can we get a cancel button should we accidentally upgrade a whip or something.
Lerk should have secondary attack (right mouse) as spore and move the shotgun spikes to weapon 2.
Make mines a commander based drop again and use energy from the armoury or something not personal res.
Sort out the volume levels for new sound effects nano shield and gorge spit hit (my ear drums!).</b>
I like the new sounds and effects.
Feels balanced toward marines, but when i stop sucking so much as alien it will probably get getter. Gotta learn to stay off the floor since there are mines everywhere, and they actually kill you now.
W/L Ratio on ns2_summit when games:
<b>Were under 600 seconds long (<10 min):</b> M 68, A 87 (M: 43.90%, A: 56.10%)
<b>Were over 600 seconds long (>10 min):</b> M 53, A 27 (M: 66.30%, A: 33.70%)
<b>Were over 1200 seconds long (>20 min):</b> M 37, A 10 (M: 78.70%, A: 21.30%)
<b>Total W/L:</b> M 121, A 124 (M: 49.40%, A: 50.60%)
<b>Total Average Match Length:</b> 787 seconds (13 min 7 seconds)
Hope I got everything right.
Probably obvious already that the marine win chance increases with each minute of the game. There need to be better balance. Hopefully new features in the future (like onos) will help :)
In that case its the "speedcore ball". It probably kicks some ass >:D
:(
Confirmed, it completely bricked the admin-mod. Hope the devs are aware of the issue.