View Bobbing
Agiel
Join Date: 2006-11-14 Member: 58605Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica Playtester
Join Date: 2006-11-14 Member: 58605Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica Playtester
<div class="IPBDescription">Motion sickness anyone?</div>As the game is getting more and more playable I've been noticing this more and more. I normally don't get motion sick when gaming but the view bobbing in this game is very distracting. It's especially noticable when sprinting with the rifle. Let me illustrate with a picture:
<img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3007215/view%20bobbing.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
In my opinion movements from side to side and up and down are ok, and what most games use for walking and running. The problem is when it comes to angular movement. NS2 is interesting in that the view is tied to the animations so we can compare different guns. Let's take the rifle and the shotgun for example. The shotgun I would say is ok, since the angular movement is only up and down, and it's very slight. The rifle however gets me dizzy after running only a few meters, forcing me to switch to the pistol if I want to sprint anywhere.
I would suggest overhauling and unifying these animations so that the view bobbing is the same for all guns, while keeping in mind that sideways angular movement causes problems for a lot of people. Maybe even have a slider in options menu for scaling the effect.
Another problem is reloading. Again it's especially noticable with the rifle. Currently while reloading the view is angled down for the duration and then back up again. Since I habitually want to keep my view straight, this means that I first have to compensate up, and then down again. As you can imagine this gets really annoying after a while. Sure, I could probably force myself to stop compensating but I think it would be better in the long run if this view tilting was toned down or removed completely.
I hope I'm not alone in this. What are your experiences and opinions?
<img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3007215/view%20bobbing.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
In my opinion movements from side to side and up and down are ok, and what most games use for walking and running. The problem is when it comes to angular movement. NS2 is interesting in that the view is tied to the animations so we can compare different guns. Let's take the rifle and the shotgun for example. The shotgun I would say is ok, since the angular movement is only up and down, and it's very slight. The rifle however gets me dizzy after running only a few meters, forcing me to switch to the pistol if I want to sprint anywhere.
I would suggest overhauling and unifying these animations so that the view bobbing is the same for all guns, while keeping in mind that sideways angular movement causes problems for a lot of people. Maybe even have a slider in options menu for scaling the effect.
Another problem is reloading. Again it's especially noticable with the rifle. Currently while reloading the view is angled down for the duration and then back up again. Since I habitually want to keep my view straight, this means that I first have to compensate up, and then down again. As you can imagine this gets really annoying after a while. Sure, I could probably force myself to stop compensating but I think it would be better in the long run if this view tilting was toned down or removed completely.
I hope I'm not alone in this. What are your experiences and opinions?
Comments
I would prefer to see it gone or atleast being able to turn it off in NS2.
Removing it probably isn't a good idea, but it should be made optional, yes.
On a 16x9 monitor instead of upping the fov, it's currently just cropped. It feels like youre constantly zoomed in, it makes me feel rather nauseous quite quickly and I have to stop playing the game.
On a 16x9 monitor instead of upping the fov, it's currently just cropped. It feels like youre constantly zoomed in, it makes me feel rather nauseous quite quickly and I have to stop playing the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, it's actually better to play on 4:3 and have it looking stretched. I really hope they change the FOV to the same way TF2 and other source games handle it (widescreen resolutions see more to the sides rather than having the FOV reduced)
An overhaul has already been done on the rifle, and I don't think it's a good idea to go backward!
Yes, when your sprinting it is better to have pistol equipped, such is life.
Something that was there that isn't anymore is the ability to begin a sprint whilst re-loading (but not able to reload while sprinting). I would like to see the ability RETURNED.
The only reason I can think of for keeping the current implementation is that it keeps everyones horizontal view space equal, so in that sense it's fair if you are playing on a 4:3 as widescreens can't see any more of the screen. The problem is that playing on a widescreen monitor with the fov adjusted like that is a worse disadvantage than having a little bit cut off from the sides. There has to be some compromise as it's impossible to make it 100% completely fair without everyone having the exact same monitor. It makes more sense to do it the same as source games as the majority of gamers have widescreen monitors now.
I made a few posts about it a while ago but I seemed to be the only one who thought it was a problem. Seems amazing to me that more people haven't mentioned it. I haven't see any dev comment on it, who knows maybe it's already on the to-do list.
Sorry for hijacking your thread Agiel. I agree with you, I think the current weapon bob feels off (some of the view model jump animations look a little strange as well), but I hope they will polish the animations more towards the end of the beta.
How is the current sprinting realistic? Try it yourself. Do you fling your eyes left and right while sprinting? No you don't, you keep your eyes straight while your head flings (minimally) left and right. And what you're holding in your hands shouldn't matter.
I'm also noticing more and more games tend to force you to change where you're looking while you reload, while it may technically be more realistic (I know I'd be looking down at what I'm doing if I were to load a gun), it's extremely annoying from a gameplay perspective as I tend to try to compensate for it moving my view around, only to have it go back to the default angle and have me realize I'm aiming way above where I should be. That said, I could probably re-train myself to NOT compensate for it, given enough time. Might have to anyways considering how many shooters are doing it today.
which goes above 100% or only for disabling?
Not sure, but i think in crysis 2 you had something like that for example(or maybe it was only for the 3d hud movement?)...
i guess just a on and off button would be enough too :P
(tho personally i dont really need this option - i dont have a problem with the viewbobbing)
It's not about game balance, or the looks, or anything else, it's simply about allowing people to play the game, without throwing up, or getting a massive headache.
Oh and on the issue of fov, yeah, I'd like to see it increased, rather than cropped.
It was done the current way in order to keep the horizontal viewing space the same, to not give a large advantage to people with widescreen monitors. However, the majority of players do have widescreen monitors these days, and most of you have requested it to be changed, so it was added some time ago as a task on Max's to do list. It is a lower priority, though, so not sure when exactly it will get done.
<!--quoteo(post=1894963:date=Jan 16 2012, 09:31 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Jan 16 2012, 09:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1894963"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For disabling. (lowering intensity until 0 => off)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This actually wouldn't solve the problem. The view tilt for Skulks when they are on walls, and the latest versions of the Lerk flight are all done programmatically, so an option can be added to easily disable that feature or possibly even have it on an intensity slider. However, most of the view bobbing, such as for sprint, reload, etc., is actually done by animating the camera in the view model file, and can't just be disabled with an option in the menu.
--Cory
It definitely should be widescreen FOV by default IMO. One thing I'd like to add is would it be possible to allow black borders to be placed on top and bottom of the screen for 4:3 monitor players to obtain a 16:9 aspect ratio?
It could be an option rather than forced. Something that allows 4:3 (or 5:4) players to compete with 16:9 but at the cost of having black borders on the top and bottom (which isn't really that big of a deal but it does ruin some immersion if you have a small monitor).
Some games (well at least I noticed with single player RPGs) with 16:9 by default do that automatically for 4:3 (add black borders on top and bottom). Not sure how often it is done for multiplayer games or anything but if it's possible, it should be implemented (as an option rather than forced) to allow 4:3 players to get the same edge as 16:9.
Again it definitely shouldn't be forced and the user should have an option of 4:3 or 16:9 (with black bars on top/bottom) if they're using a regular monitor.
Though thinking about it, unless the person had a really big 4:3 monitor, I could see 16:9 with black bars not helping that much because it might make things too tiny to see (which in turn means people with regular wide screen monitors would still have an advantage). Well just something to point out if it's easy to do (if it is, it should be implemented but if not, it might not be worth the effort because it might not really help).
This actually wouldn't solve the problem. The view tilt for Skulks when they are on walls, and the latest versions of the Lerk flight are all done programmatically, so an option can be added to easily disable that feature or possibly even have it on an intensity slider. However, most of the view bobbing, such as for sprint, reload, etc., is actually done by animating the camera in the view model file, and can't just be disabled with an option in the menu.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can it be removed?
Anyone wana put their hand up if they prefer view tilting for sprint/reload etc to be in the game?
personally i don't care and it doesn't effect me much but for the sake of X number of players that get nausea from it, i would rather it off
(Note a lot of my friends give up on FPS for purely this nausea experience)
Great, glad to know it's going to be sorted. When I played a couple of nights ago I could only go for 15 - 20 minutes as marine before I felt nauseous (headache, slight sickly feeling) and had to stop playing.
For those affected by the bobbing/view slanting, it would be interested to see if they're still affected by it once the FOV is properly adjusted for widescreens.
Interesting though, usually i get nauseous easily from FPS view bobs and the likes but the view bobbing in NS2 somehow doesnt affect me :S.
Yay! Thanks for the response Cory :) Great to see this will be changed at some point.
I usually play with a 115 FOV if the games allow me to, so I guess I'll be the winner.
Actually...
Player_Client.lua:1387
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->local origin = Vector(viewModelCameraCoords.origin) * kViewBobbingScale
local yaw = GetYawFromVector(viewModelCameraCoords.zAxis) * kViewBobbingScale
local pitch = GetPitchFromVector(viewModelCameraCoords.zAxis) * kViewBobbingScale
local angles = Angles(pitch, yaw, 0)
viewModelCameraCoords = angles:GetCoords(origin)
cameraCoords = cameraCoords * viewModelCameraCoords<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
Somewhere in Globals.lua
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->kViewBobbingScale = <a number between 0 and 1><!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
My current problem is the view bobbing as it makes me sick after ~30 minutes of playtime. It's like getting sea-sick so you can imagine that it's not a pleasant experience.
Has there been any progress on the matter? Currently I mainly play Aliens because it's not that bad with them but the constant screen bobbing as a Marine while running, reload and the like really gives me nausea. FoV sliders help, but they don't fix the problem for many with motion sickness.
It would be highly appreciated if there could be a way to turn this off.
I have requested a lower FOV as even when the slider is fully to the left I still get a headache after a while. Its always like this for me in any game. Just a bit lower until the fish eye lens effect goes away please.
I used to lower it in the ini during the alpha/beta, but since the checking came in I cant.
Sal