Your first time playing NS2 after NS1 - What was different?

Mestaritonttu · January 2012

I just finished playing NS2 for the first time ever. (Yay me!) And I must say I was rather pleased. *monocle lift* Even though everything seemed mighty confusing, similarities were plenty and if you don't know what to do biting/shooting something is always a good idea. :P

What did you notice was different the first time? Liked it / Disliked?

What I felt like was that resources weren't spent quite so accurately. (Disclaimer: This may be entirely because most of the time I didn't have a clue.) Somehow I felt like there wasn't the "get this crucial res tower and therefore get the crucial 3pt res lead and all is dandy" -feel I had in NS1. Dunno. Oh, oh! And man is it HARD to SEE aliens! I mean they blend in to the walls so well I go all @_@ trying to aim at them. In NS1 they were so bright it was easy peasy hitting them. :b Altho thankfully they move slower now. :)

Gief replies!

(Btw, off-topic: Any tweaking tips? So far I've only turned vsync on, but that makes mouse drag a bit. >:( )

ScardyBob · January 2012

That those wooden targets I was shooting at in the engine test didn't look like skulks at all :)

IeptBarakat · January 2012

The engine test was fun, people put the skulk stuff together and made a very basic combat mod.

saltybp53 · January 2012

The first thing I noticed was no jump crouching in Alpha, but it was there during the engine test for some reason. This bums me out, because I always fall into those tight corners and the only way out is to jump crouch out D:

Wheeee · January 2012

" i need a new computer "

(alpha build 151)

Flayra · January 2012

I'm quite interested to hear perspectives from NS1 players that just tried NS2. I want to make sure the game "delivers" for you, and it's really hard to get into the NS1 mindset after being so close to NS2.

Frozty · January 2012

I couldnt find the "heavy machinegun" that i loved in NS1.
I hope you guys bring it back!

lazy · January 2012

Movement is slow and unresponsive. And controls in general as well.
No bhop :(

Kouji_San · January 2012

<i>H<span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%">eavy machingun --> <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Minigun" target="_blank">Minigun</a> and skulk will get wall jumping (currently in the game, but still a WiP)</span></i>

My first thought: "Hmm it might be time to OC this here rig". Which I gradually did over the course of the alpha/beta and now I'm at 3.2Ghz :P

sebu · January 2012

You needed a lot more skill and movement momentum, when playing aliens especially fade. Aiming and controls are very unresponsive right now. Gameplay isn't so fast paced as ns1, but it still has and will maybe even have more tactical treats that we loved in ns1. I had my fear of performing on my laptop, but i was amazed, that my average fps is around 30.

Price · January 2012

Edit: omg...i was editing the horrible english and now everything is gone because of a FF crash...screw that!
Im pi**ed off now, i write down the text later again...

Keep it short:
I miss the core gameplay of ns1 in ns2.
I guess new player will like ns2 but i miss the whole gameplay.
In my mind, Ns2 would be perfect with 1:1 NS1 gameplay + new elements, like the awesome effects (lerk spores looks so fantastic if you look closer, looks like bakteria).
Or every structure of the aliens spread dynamic infestation but thats no matter for aliens to build, they can build everywhere.

Koruyo · January 2012

I miss secret (disco)rooms!

(felt like i could clear some false statements up, but decided against - instead this is now a post with a very important feature thats missing in ns2 atm)

edit (because bhop):
While it's not bhop, i would say a lot ppl misjudged walljump(at least i did) - it works pretty ok already and gives quite a good amount of movement bonus. (at least if the running at the wall, strafe into it + press jump is working as intended, otherwise it wouldn't be fun and you could basically remove it again...)

Kouji_San · January 2012

just an FYI, you can use mines as ladders afaik...

marks · January 2012

My first experience of NS2 was having 5fps, skulks not dying at all when I shot them, and commanders who drop turrets everywhere. It was while back now, but :| not too tempted to take another try yet. I played maybe 3 games and haven't touched it since.

Raikoification · January 2012

I find it much harder to kill enemys in NS2 than in NS1, as well, i found the sprint feature very much to my liking.

Also, alien commander was kewl

Mkk_Bitestuff · January 2012

As a player of NS1 since 1.0, i miss the fast paced action from NS1. There is no other game to this date that has ever matched the speed and game play intensity from NS1, and I think that is the only reason the game is still played; there are people that always come back to NS1 after they try other games which do not meet that standard. That's not to say NS1 was perfect, and I think that is what most NS1 players were hoping NS2 would be come, an improved version of NS1. I do not want this to turn into a hate thread, but I think sometimes people forget that NS1 was very different depending on how it was played, a balance that is very difficult to achieve. The game was balanced as a competitive game, but still had good public play. NS2 looks to be changing a lot of this, and while I understand its UWE's game to create and am fine with that, I cannot help but be slightly disappointed as I think a game similar to NS1 in play style and speed could become amazingly popular. I am not saying that NS2 needs to be exactly like NS1 with new graphics, I think that would be a bad choice. But I would really like to see some focus put back on the competitive side of the game, and in making the skill depth and speed similar to that of NS1.

StreifenHirnchen · January 2012

the unbelievable bad game performance ...

sherpa · January 2012

I had an open mind because I think that, despite NS1's flaws, NS2 should have been a near carbon-copy (like SC1 -> SC2).

Why? Some of that things that made NS1 great (alien dependance on the <15min fade keeping them in the game, bhop, pancake lerk) were never intended. For NS2, UWE got sucked into the mind-set of triple-A developers where aesthetics and a gentle learning curve are a top priority. That's not a slight on UWE: new players or low-skilled players would not enjoy any of the features above, but it's those same features that gave NS1 its depth and replayability. I have no no idea how well Nuclear Dawn is doing, but I'd place a wager that the game will be dead by the summer. ND was perfectly functional, but if you look at the commander role (NDs biggest feature seperating it from any other FPS) as being this... "artificial module" added on (a ground pounder knows there's 2 guys playing the game from a different perspective but it has little influence over his gamplay) then it becomes obvious the game is a really dull FPS game. I think NS2 is heading in this direction, though having asymetrical teams does help ("remove alien commander" place holder here).

So with that said, first game of NS2 I didn't expect the depth of NS1 (not that one game should reveal a game in its entirety) and I think I was right =3

On the plus side, the art side of the game is top, top draw. UWE nailed the sci-fi atmosphere perfectly. I'd take NS2 over a AAA rival (AvP2 springs to mind) in that respect.

tl;dr of second paragraph: UWE got lucky with how NS1 panned out. Features that unexpectedly snuck in gave the game depth; those same features removed for NS2.

NurEinMensch · January 2012

Well if they were lucky with NS1 they don't seem to be taking chances with NS2. What I mean with that is that they are very open to trying things out, and throwing them out if they don't work. The "original" NS2 concept was much more different from NS1 than the NS2 we have now. Anyone still remember the how only MACs could build stuff etc? They want to expand on NS1 and try new things, but they are clearly trying to preserve what was good about NS1 imo. I expect some tweaks to stuff like movement code once the rest of the game got together.

sherpa · January 2012

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NurEinMensch @ Jan 25 2012, 12:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1897271"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Well if they were lucky with NS1 they don't seem to be taking chances with NS2. What I mean with that is that they are very open to trying things out, and throwing them out if they don't work. The "original" NS2 concept was much more different from NS1 than the NS2 we have now. Anyone still remember the how only MACs could build stuff etc? They want to expand on NS1 and try new things, but they are clearly trying to preserve what was good about NS1 imo. I expect some tweaks to stuff like movement code once the rest of the game got together.</div>

I agree! I also think there was talk about skulk movement (last I heard, there's a version of wallhop in).

Jiriki · January 2012

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Jan 24 2012, 08:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1897106"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm quite interested to hear perspectives from NS1 players that just tried NS2. I want to make sure the game "delivers" for you, and it's really hard to get into the NS1 mindset after being so close to NS2.</div>
People give more honest feedback as anonymous. It might be a good idea to either do a survey or make the game ask like popup, would you like to give feedback after first proper game and there's a checkbox for did you play NS1, and whatever might be useful etc. Sometimes I hate popups myself but it might be worth it if its not every user and only once.

MuYeah · January 2012

I know I post a lot of overstated suggestions on these forums, but here is what I actually feel about NS2 side by side with NS1 (sans suggestions!). I upgraded my PC at around build 187, so I had some play-time beforehand but these observations are based on playing the game with ~80fps rather than ~15.

I was really impressed with the visual and audio quality of everything (except placeholder infestation and this weird bug I get where it sounds like there are twice the number of skulks biting me and the impact sound for gorge spit is INCREDIBLY LOUD WHENEVER IT LANDS ON ME OR NEXT TO ME).

Also super happy about light machine gun and shotgun playing large roles for the marine team, they're far and away the most viscerally fun weapons in NS1.

Having played the Marine Commander - I think it's actually improved over the NS1 commander. Throttling both teams starting resources means we actually have to make decent decisions about a beginning build order. This and the unification of res systems is theoretically a Good Thingâ„¢ because it removes the mantle of NS1's Groundhog Day strategies. Every game in NS1 would be marines attack the expanding aliens (building 2 or 3 RTs, dropping a Shotgun/welder and researching Armour1 on the way) whose game-plan was to get Hive2 up asap because it was so powerful.

One downside of the new commander interface is that it can be really difficult to see when I've actually healed a marine with a med-pack. Universal health bars around the marines rather than only when you select them would be nice. I also don't really see much point in the (visually cool) dynamic squad system. It feels like its only purpose is to tell me when there are two or more marines stood next to each other.

The strength of additional hives - more infestation, more buildings, stronger upgrades, more res income and stronger lifeforms - hamstrings the strategical choice of the alien team. It causes any build order the aliens choose that doesn't build hive2 at the right time to keep up with marine tech to be an all-in. This is because upgraded marines completely dominate alien teams without fades. The marine team could also use a little more differentiation in their structures so a scouting alien can tell which tech path they're on - a visual difference between an armory and an advanced armory would be nice.

If I had the choice of one thing to have changed from NS1 to NS2 it would be making the second hive weaker, rather than stronger. <span style="color:#FF0000"><b>*</b></span>

At first I didn't like the power system because it seems somewhat superfluous but right now I'm ambivalent towards it. As long as the marine spawn power node is easily defensible from the comm chair, it's OK in my books. It does feel a little like right now there's a sweet spot at mid-game where the power node is balanced, but once the marines have too many buildings attached to it and the aliens have too much damage output it feels overly rewarding for the aliens to destroy the power node. This could present problems as the end-game is added.

Unlike most of my competitive NS1 playing peers I welcome the addition of the alien commander. While currently lacking in "stuff to do", I find it actually quite fun in its own way. I think it has huge potential, especially with the drifter abilities like Flare.

What I dislike about the A-Comm is how it's been implemented (and this is tied in with the alien infestation model). It seems like the alien comm has no real 'punchy' offensive powers - you have to slowly spread creep to meet the marines before you can do anything, and this is really just moving your defensive line forwards rather than going on the offense. This feels like it keeps in line with how the alien team were balanced in NS1 but the goalposts have moved for NS2 now that both teams have the same number of players on the field and unified res models.

The other problem I see with alien tech is that to defend a building hive you must spread creep all the way there then use drifters to fortify it. It makes for a very high cumulative energy cost, especially when it's really easy for marines to cut off a cyst chain and waste that energy in the early game. In comparison, an NS1 hive could be dropped and fortified with chambers at any point. This actually gave a defender's advantage enough to buy time until hive completion. NS2 makes it very difficult to create a defender's advantage at a building hive, while at the same time keeping a healthy economy. It feels like the pure energy cost put into taking a new hive is so high that it removes the ability to focus on economy at the same time, that there are no middle of the road robust builds.

In terms of how the game "feels" from an FPS perspective I like the marines. They're much the same as NS1 except for one thing: In NS1 I used to wiggle-jump forwards (this made you move faster thanks to bunnyhop physics) and spin 180 degrees to shoot at things behind me, the effect being that you could "leap" away while still shooting flanking enemies. It really helped if you were melee-ing a res tower or something. Trying this in NS2 does not work (obviously), but I think it's a sad loss of a movement mini-skill. Now if you want to cover your arse you have to walk backwards slowly (backwards walk as marine also feels a little too slow).

The other thing I dislike is slowing marines on infestation (speeding up aliens would offer the same outcome and just be more fun all-round) and always being parasited on infestation. I like the idea of the Alien Comm collecting scouting knowledge but some sort of active ability (like how the marine comm uses scan) would be nicer than the permanent wallhack provided at the moment.

The aliens I'm not so fond of. There feels like a real lack of mobility in general. I think I read somewhere this is due to the rather harsh speed clamping?

I like the lerk and aspects of gorge bellyslide and the fade's blink.

The skulk is "ok", the removal of bunnyhop hurts somewhat for the same reason as the 180 wiggle-jump I mentioned above. The skill and joy of skulking in NS1 came from being able to get a quick burst of speed (which was mainly done by doing that same mini-leap wiggle-jump from a hiding position, rarely chaining more than 1 or 2 bunnyhops together) combined with sufficient air control to feel like your movements had an effect on the enemy's accuracy. Leap at hive2 feels broken as is, a shadow of its former NS1 self.

Lerk flight feels good. Shotgun spikes act sufficiently enough like bite from NS1 to preserve the rapid in and out combat style for me. Crop duster spores are irritating to play against because I can't see what I'm shooting. I know that's the point but it's kind of the polar opposite to why I liked the combat in NS1. It was more about out-maneuvring, out-flanking and out-aiming rather than obscuring.

Fade blink - Simply put, it doesn't feel as fluid. There was a real rhythm to NS1 fading that made it enjoyable just to try and blink around a map without running out of energy. What I do like is the opportunity to dodge shotgun blasts and grenade explosions using a well-timed mini-blink. As a marine fighting a fade, the LMG is useless and the shotgun too good in the current implementation. I can't help but feel the fade spends too much time in its ethereal state, it isn't much fun to either be the fade, spending most of your combat time effectively invulnerable, or to fight against it. A little more granularity rather than rock-paper-scissors would be welcome.

Belly slide - Why can't gorges use this everywhere? It just feeds in to nerfing the alien team off infestation even more.

Edit: Completely forgot to mention hive teleport transport. Amazing feature added in 3.0betas of NS1 that is absent in NS2. Teleport between hive rooms and to a hive under attack would be beautiful.

---

<span style="color:#FF0000"><b>*</b></span> Hive power digression (the only one in this post, I swear!):

One aspect which seems to have regressed is the bottleneck of power in the form of additional hives. Specifically, linking lifeforms to hive number is problematic. It makes a specific target and, by the nature of the design, location on the map overly important. While this isn't inherently bad (I like the conflict inducing effect it has by funneling players to the same location), having <i>so much</i> power tied up in getting Hive 2 means that the whole game revolves around a 3-5 minute mid-game scuffle and the rest plays out depending on the outcome. Even while <i>this</i> is not inherently bad - it is bad in the current case, where the alien team must win the battle in order to stay equal to the marine team in tech-power. If the alien team had a completely independent tech path delivered through resources rather than hives (de-couple lifeforms, basically) then the second hive can deliver a solid bonus rather than an absolutely necessary make-or-break feature.

BearTaxi · January 2012

I'm quite tired, so this post probably won't include all my thoughts nor be entirely coherant. I apologise in advance for that.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm having a ton of fun on NS2. Most of the gameplay feels really good. However, there are key elements (most of which already mentioned in the thread) that are missing.

First, Skulk movement. It just feels clunky at the moment. I was never particularly good at skulk bhopping, however I could get a slight but noticable movement speed increase. Now it just feels like I'm forced to play more defensivly and reserved - something that I certainly didn't feel in NS1, public or competitive.

NS1 Gorge. I miss it. A lot. While I certainly respect that UWE is attempting new things, and they don't just want a shiny graphics update for NS1, the thing that got me excited about NS1 when I was first introduced to it was the gorge. It was just a wonderous thing, my first glimpse of NS1 was of the gorge, waddling around fortifying strategic points or sneakily dropping a hive. Now it's capabilties have been extremely reduced. I understand this is because of the implementation of the Khamm, but honestly, I just don't find NS2 gorge fun like I did NS1 gorge. It just doesn't have that same feel of freedom. I seriously think UWE needs to consider making gorge more like it used to be.

Lerk, I'm a bit divided on, but overall am pretty happy with it as it is implemented. The flight model is nice and controls feel tight, however I don't like my lack of a real direct attack. When bite was introduced in NS1 to the Lerk, that made me happy.

Fade is something I am also divided on. On the one hand, I miss the fluidity and conservation of momentum one could feel from the NS1 fade. On the other, I quite like NS2 fade aswell. It's definately fun to play, and isn't TOO overpowered in it's current form.

One thing that also bugs me about NS2 is due to certain evolve restrictions etc, The NS1 evolve roles that were used in competitive play (ie: fast fade, gorge, res fade) or whatever they were referred to as, Don't exist in a similar manner. I really liked the clear role a member would play in a team.

But as I said at the start of the post, I am loving NS2 and having more and more fun every build. I just really miss certain things about NS1.

Price · January 2012

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearTaxi @ Jan 25 2012, 05:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1897300"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>But as I said at the start of the post, I am loving NS2 and having more and more fun every build. I just really miss certain things about NS1.</div>
You are not the only one.
I am sure like every oldie would love ns1 HD if you know what i mean.
But they can not just do that, the press would be hard i guess.
Also the reputation of the company UWE.
I have no clue about that, thats just my guess why they do this.
I mean to be honest, you realy can see how they go back, every version you see one little step back to ns1, why?
Because it works great!
NS1 was the best modification, it was new, it was fresh.
If they just add some new features instead of creating like from scratch.

Sure the alien commander gives the aliens a bit more tactic feature, like dynamic upgrades, building.
But the gorge was one of the most fun feature, thats why in the latest version, like everyone loves marines, they could buy marines.
I guess poeple love to build their stuff, instead of "only the commander".
I mean i love that aliens was a lot diffrent to marines, now its like:
Marines -> commander ->powernodes-> upgrades -> mac -> buy stuff
Aliens -> Commander->cysts-> upgrades-> drifter -> morph to aliens
I am 100% sure, if NS2 has 2 gamemodes, the new ns2 mode and the ns1 classic, that like the most servers are with the classicmode are filled.
Thats no judge or hatespeech against the UWE-Team, thats just my mind, i like how the quality with models, animations, textures and on in ns2 is, but the old ns1 gameplay wasn't that frustrating.

They put a lot of great ideas in it and its still not done, so we can see what the game will be.
I don't say its not fun, if the game runs fine like it did now except for fps (you have to play old versions like 16x that was a mess ^^),
it can be realy fun.
And the onos will change the gameplay a lot i guess and a classic mode like ns1 can be created by the community everytime...

Your first time playing NS2 after NS1 - What was different?

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