Rambo, To Scold Or Praise.
Soujiro_The_Tenken
Join Date: 2002-12-11 Member: 10655Members
Join Date: 2002-12-11 Member: 10655Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Personal experiences.</div> I realize the point of marines is to emphasize on teamwork, but can a little infiltration help us out?
I played a few weeks ago on ehh(dont remember the name, the map with sewer/gen/hive i will refer to as "middle hive") the aliens started out in middle hive, after a few control swaps they ended up with sewer hive as well, my fellow troops endlessly assaulted it, trying to get sieges up in the room next to it. It was a near pointless battle, they had fades perched up on the ladder leading into the room, cost our team many many resources from all the destroyed tfacts. Eventually I became tired of this, and wandered off to gen hive, which we had a mini base in but wasn't active with enemy forces. I continued on my way twords middle hive, came to the resource tower(after the tunnel with drop down door/lader) The aliens had it, but were too busy to put defenses by it, so i knifed it, half expecting to get eaten by a skulk. I managed to remove the tower, and proceeded twords their main hive. I wasn't suprised there were no defenses in the hive (I didn't kill the hive, since i knew i couldnt, also aliens generally don't build defenses in first hive unless it's attacked), so i listened for near by skulks, and knifed their movement chambers when it was quiet. I took down 2 movements, then proceeded to knife their res tower right next to the hive, this tipped them off, but i got lucky and added 2 skulks to my kill record, somehow managing to knife the res tower to death.
While I consider this strategy to be based totally around luck, it has worked for me and a few other players several times, a single rambo can be helpful, but if you have more than one it defeats the purpose. Also, this works out well if the aliens are saving for 2nd hive, and your rambo happens to stumble upon their gorge, this puts them back big time if your rambo can take out the fatty(A player by the name of Lvl 9 Gorge Hunter did this a lot, the server he's a regular on generally guards their gorges a bit better now)
Just wondering if anyone has any comments on this.
I played a few weeks ago on ehh(dont remember the name, the map with sewer/gen/hive i will refer to as "middle hive") the aliens started out in middle hive, after a few control swaps they ended up with sewer hive as well, my fellow troops endlessly assaulted it, trying to get sieges up in the room next to it. It was a near pointless battle, they had fades perched up on the ladder leading into the room, cost our team many many resources from all the destroyed tfacts. Eventually I became tired of this, and wandered off to gen hive, which we had a mini base in but wasn't active with enemy forces. I continued on my way twords middle hive, came to the resource tower(after the tunnel with drop down door/lader) The aliens had it, but were too busy to put defenses by it, so i knifed it, half expecting to get eaten by a skulk. I managed to remove the tower, and proceeded twords their main hive. I wasn't suprised there were no defenses in the hive (I didn't kill the hive, since i knew i couldnt, also aliens generally don't build defenses in first hive unless it's attacked), so i listened for near by skulks, and knifed their movement chambers when it was quiet. I took down 2 movements, then proceeded to knife their res tower right next to the hive, this tipped them off, but i got lucky and added 2 skulks to my kill record, somehow managing to knife the res tower to death.
While I consider this strategy to be based totally around luck, it has worked for me and a few other players several times, a single rambo can be helpful, but if you have more than one it defeats the purpose. Also, this works out well if the aliens are saving for 2nd hive, and your rambo happens to stumble upon their gorge, this puts them back big time if your rambo can take out the fatty(A player by the name of Lvl 9 Gorge Hunter did this a lot, the server he's a regular on generally guards their gorges a bit better now)
Just wondering if anyone has any comments on this.
Comments
Its a, for the most part, flawless strategy. Although, some maps I get 1-2 people taht follow me Ramboing, and "thats" when we paticurally lose. Usually within 30-60 seconds with the first Alien rush.
Although, I frequently get yelled at by other Marines on my team when I do this tactic. They complain I get to have all the fun, while they get stuck buildling. I see the problem with my tactic, I see it is kind of lopsided. But I tested 2 maps straight, i volunteered other people to try it themselves, they got eaten stepping out of the base within the first 10 seconds. :-/
Generally, commanders catch on very quickly that I am more than capable of building <i>and</i> watching my back very well. Let's take the scenario of building a resource tower.
1. I get to the resource node, only shooting at any aliens who notice me.
2. Commander drops the tower and I start building.
3. Halfway through building, I stop and listen. I have found that aliens rarely take silence and when they hear building, they rush in.
4. If I am happy that no aliens are about, I resume building. If I think there are aliens, I kill them.
5. I finish the tower and let my commander decide what to do with me.
I follow the same building process when I build outposts with siege and phase gates. I agree that Rambos who rush off and get themselves killed are useless, but if you have a competent Rambo on your team, use him to great effect!
"Team Rambo" is an oxymoron. Rambos are used to refer to those who whine for weapons and equipment, run out on their own, get killed, and then whine again while telling the comm he sucks.
If you're going out on your own, doing it wisely, and getting something accomplished, that's not Ramboing, that's just holding your own.
Also, I often find the gorge at an empty hive (probably saving up to build). Once I kill the gorge, I'm usually given a phase gate, so we can control that hive now. All it took was one quiet marine <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ravlen
Generally rambo's fail to obey orders and are just out their to shoot stuff.
Intelligent rambo's can be a boon to commanders PROVIDED they talk to the com, if a player rambo's off at the start it pisses me off no end because I've had afew games where litrally half the team has rambo'ed off leaving two people in base to cover AND build *sigh*
BlueGhost
Rambo who starts shooting everything he see first and makes the enemy fortify an area deserves scolding. If you think about it, it only matters if you actually help the team to win. In your situation, I wouldn't touch the resource tower in shipping tunnel. I'd tell commander to drop phase gate then siege the ventilation hive. Since you already have one hive, sieging the second one = winning the game. However, if you were to rambo when aliens have 3 hives... you might as well have some fun losing by killing some defenseless buildings <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->.
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Thats a great idea!
Gorge Hunter! He prays on innocent Gorges and wins us the game!
(Please Note, that was serious!)
It's an ill wind, but if someone rambo's solo without actually helping the team when I'm in comm they get no health or ammo until I see results!
"I wouldn't touch the resource tower in shipping tunnel. I'd tell commander to drop phase gate then siege the ventilation hive."
Yes, I agree entirely.
For commanders:
1 Build a phase first. NOT A TFAC, please, never tell a lone marine to build a tfac unless they are in really obscure location.
2 Scream at people to go through the phase gate.
3 Scream at people to STAY by the phase gate, not to attack anything, and DO NOT GO INTO THE HIVE.
4 Build a tfac.
5 Upgrade the tfac <- DO NOT BUILD TURRETS, they are completely inadequate, and tend to give away the position.
6 Build a siege [or 2].
7 Build turrets if required.
8 Send a welder to the site at some stage.
9 Revel in the sweet smell of success.
I don't know how many times I'v wasted money on a TF or Phase Gate.
Other times, a rambo can single handedly win a match.
When I command, I try for the 5 minute victory.
When this fails, I notice that Marines need to be split into 2 groups (this usually happens naturally).
Generally if all of your marines are trying to attack the same hive, the attack will be thwarted.
However, sometimes if the aliens are distracted at a differen't hive, you can slip 2-3 marines in and have a small base setup before the aliens realize there are 2 seige cannons pounding on their defenses.
What do u call a small group of marines going off my themselves? Navy Seals
If I see two people that I know, I sometimes ask them to move to a hive and secure it pending that its empty. I send everyone else to set up a base near the enemy's main hive and proceed to rush it. The purpose of the small infiltration unit is to secure hive 1, resources, and a siege near hive 2 while most of the enemy concentrates on defending main hive.
I typically dont like rambos, because they have to build AND watch their own back. I prefer teams of at least 2.
GWB<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what do you call a person who goes off by himself with a commanders orders then? (a spy) When the aliens are so consintrated on one single part of the map, then you can easily sneak a infiltrator in and build a phase gate or etc. O and by the way, I was once a lone marine on ns_nothing (one with gen hive room) i think, and the comm ordered me to the gen hive room and that was their main hive. We were able to build one Tfac and 2 turrets (they were unbuilt because I was RIGHT behind their hive) be4 they killed me. I LMAO on that one seeing as how the aliens are always so unobservant in their base. Also, I spent about 12 mins hiding behind their hive be4 they noticed me. (in the little vent behind the generator room. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> I found that quite sad for the aliens.
Players who run off and attack stuff left and right without accomplishing anything are useless rambos. Players like myself who cannot trust other team-mates to be silent, or be able to aim, and go to useful places/hunt gorges can really help the team. Send one guy to one hive to keep gorges out, while the rest of the team goes to the next unnoccupied hive. Then when the commander researches MT (early, I hope), the person in the hive becomes a hell of a lot harder to uproot. Gorge hunting is also a good thing. One person running around, patrolling the map for gorges can really help the team. I can remember many times I have prevented our marine team from losing due to a bad commander.
Letting the commander know what you are doing is essential! If you just wander off and expect him to somehow know exactly what you are doing is not going to happen. I
I don't know how many times I've wasted money on a TF or Phase Gate."
I would *never* build a tfac with a rambo [unless things are very, very desperate], but a phase gate is often worthwhile...
- it's 20 RPs
- it grants your team immediate access to the area
- it builds quickly
- it's hard to destroy
- it can tilt the balance in your favour
- it is by far the best piece of equipment available to the marines
On the other hand, how often have you "wasted resources" on:
- 6 turrets, only for 3 skulks to take out the tfac, and then the turrets?
- a shotgun, which gets lost within 10 seconds?
- a set of HA that never gets welded?
- a welder that gets picked up by the wrong person, never to be seen again?
- an HMG for someone to camp in a corner of base with?
- a phase gate in a hive, that the marines refuse to use unless they have HA/HMG?
- half a dozen medkits that rot and disappear?
- a resource collector that gets eaten before it's built?
- a tfac that sits awaiting rebuilding for 10 minutes?
IMHO rambos should provide 'options' to commanders, whether the option is worth taking is a decision for the commander.
What do u call a small group of marines going off my themselves? Navy Seals
If I see two people that I know, I sometimes ask them to move to a hive and secure it pending that its empty. I send everyone else to set up a base near the enemy's main hive and proceed to rush it. The purpose of the small infiltration unit is to secure hive 1, resources, and a siege near hive 2 while most of the enemy concentrates on defending main hive.
I typically dont like rambos, because they have to build AND watch their own back. I prefer teams of at least 2.
GWB
Generally, commanders catch on very quickly that I am more than capable of building <i>and</i> watching my back very well. Let's take the scenario of building a resource tower.
1. I get to the resource node, only shooting at any aliens who notice me.
2. Commander drops the tower and I start building.
3. Halfway through building, I stop and listen. I have found that aliens rarely take silence and when they hear building, they rush in.
4. If I am happy that no aliens are about, I resume building. If I think there are aliens, I kill them.
5. I finish the tower and let my commander decide what to do with me.
I follow the same building process when I build outposts with siege and phase gates. I agree that Rambos who rush off and get themselves killed are useless, but if you have a competent Rambo on your team, use him to great effect!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is probably a good example where upgrading your observatory early can be beneficial. Survey the area before you build and if it's safe, start building. You can stop and check again through the building process and the commander can also inform you if any enemies approaching.
When I assign someone an 'infiltration' job though, I tell them to approach it like a ninja and be sneaky about it, not run in with guns blazing.
BTW, a jetpack is *required* in a sneak job.
A few things to keep in mind when u r using motion-tracking.
A) It doesn't work when u build
B) On some servers it works bad
C) If they sit still, u don't see them
Still, I think motion-tracking can be VERY usefull. especially when 3 skulks try to rush 5 marines from a vent and 3 marines are amaing at it, while the 2 others watch the corridors <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think the servers it works bad r the linux-servers, I read that somewhere, but I don't know if it is true. I hope they fix it soon.
BlueGhost
Twitch reflexes honed in C-strike.
Jetpack skills perfected in Tribes 2.
And after doing a full 10 theif missions lythian style (IE: Don't be seen at all, don't cause any alerts, and don't do any damage to anything), I consider myself a "Sneakey lil' SOB."
1)Do not follow orders
2)Often insult other players
3)Shoot anything that moves, giving away their position
4)Don't pay attention the big picture of things
Rambo players often prove to be highly counter-productive and unhelpful.
Going off on your own, with orders and occasional help from the commander, is quite useful. Such tactics have been described before in many other threads, with names ranging from spy to greasemonkey to my own moniker, "The Commander's Handyman." In any case, a lone infiltrator can be very useful under the right circumstances. Many, many times the marines have had their butts saved by some loner sent through a vent to slap down a phase gate and cc at a hive. I've managed success with such tactics even with Onos pounding on the front door!