<!--quoteo(post=1900558:date=Feb 7 2012, 10:13 AM:name=reh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (reh @ Feb 7 2012, 10:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900558"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It seems likely, that after the initial shock, the aliens will learn to deal with jps pretty effectively. In near future, people will start asking devs to buff up jet packs a bit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> ... Or it could go totally the other way round and marines figure out some totally overpowering ways to use the JP.
to be honest, if the jp isn't in a huge flying area u can just knock them down with onos... but in the newer maps (not summit) you basically have to dodge the jp until he/she runs out of fuel....
i knew this would be a problem, seeing as the aliens were only going to get the onos whilst marines got jps, exo, and dual mini guns.... aliens need something more....
truthfully the jp problem can be solved with stronger hydras... maybe make it so the alien commander can upgrade hydras into mature hydras, and they do more dmg plus more health?
<!--quoteo(post=1900560:date=Feb 7 2012, 09:17 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Feb 7 2012, 09:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900560"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... Or it could go totally the other way round and marines figure out some totally overpowering ways to use the JP.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course, time will show. I think jps haven't got the potential to be op now, but I'm prepared to stand corrected.
A slight buff to skulk in-air combat abilities would be a nice counter to jetpacks. That way you can counter their JPs by just "building more stuff" (out-macroing) and zerging them down with free units. The counter to JP would be to take an extra hive so you have a larger pool of eggs.
<!--quoteo(post=1900590:date=Feb 7 2012, 04:27 AM:name=MuYeah)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MuYeah @ Feb 7 2012, 04:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900590"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A slight buff to skulk in-air combat abilities would be a nice counter to jetpacks. That way you can counter their JPs by just "building more stuff" (out-macroing) and zerging them down with free units. The counter to JP would be to take an extra hive so you have a larger pool of eggs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont like this, zerging a jetpacker until he makes a mistake or i get lucky. This is just lame.
<!--quoteo(post=1900684:date=Feb 7 2012, 12:12 PM:name=Nakorson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nakorson @ Feb 7 2012, 12:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900684"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dont like this, zerging a jetpacker until he makes a mistake or i get lucky. This is just lame.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It makes sense though, there should be certain weaknesses to each race. We can't have, "Kharaa can counter everything marine and just rape them or marines can do the same to the Kharaa." I do believe the jetpacks will become more difficult to obtain later-on, but there is the level of needing to build and research jetpacks before units can then 'buy' them.
If the jet pack really is overpowered here's one solution.
The jet pack could have its own armour meter, lower than that of the marine. Below a certain point the jet pack will become faulty, splutter when used, before finally becoming disabled and require repairing at the armoury.
It might encourage the jet pack to be used to cover distance, for rapid assaults, for improved survivability, for dogfighting lerks - but not for flying around a room forever like a mosquito.
I prefer the idea that the marines and aliens have different abilties...and perfect permanent flight should be for the aliens.
<!--quoteo(post=1900691:date=Feb 7 2012, 11:50 AM:name=Banzai¥)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Banzai¥ @ Feb 7 2012, 11:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900691"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It makes sense though, there should be certain weaknesses to each race. We can't have, "Kharaa can counter everything marine and just rape them or marines can do the same to the Kharaa." I do believe the jetpacks will become more difficult to obtain later-on, but there is the level of needing to build and research jetpacks before units can then 'buy' them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didnt mean that the jetpacker should be easily killable by any type of alien lifeform. I just mean that there has to be a viable tactic for killing the jetpacker. Like webbing him with a gorge, or shooting him down as lerk.
How about having the automatic refuel slow to start with (no regen for 0.5s after letting go of jump) and increase the rate the longer you don't use the JP. That way you have to manage your fuel correctly and the aliens have the ability to reduce the effectiveness either by a constant stream of suicide skulks or by hit-and-run.
How about we stop nit-picking/trying to change the balance of a newly released addition until the game becomes more fleshed out and people have had more time to interact with the items.
<u><b>If i look at the amount of res marines need to get jps they shouldnt be that easy to kill - its fine.</b></u>
1ip, armory, advanced armory, prototype, jp research => 125res
Now you have jetpacks and lmgs, no base defence only 1 ip and your marines die in 2 bites + 1parasite/ 2 fade swipes etc... lets add some stuff to make the jps really usefull and dont forget about base defence
2ips armory(20), armory(10), advanced armory(30), prototype(40), jp research(35), shotgun(10), armslab(20), armor 1(20), weapon 1(20), observatory(10) (so you can at least beacon "basedefence") => 215res
A little comparison: Aliens need 2nd hive(75) whip(10), frenzy (10), swarm(10), 3 shells(30), regeneration(10), carapace(10) => 155res (this is everything you need to win a game, if you dont have good lerks you can leave swarm out, its only really good for lerks if you ask me)
These res numbers are missing resource towers, 10res per RT (and you also need to take into account that they and maybe other structures might get destroyed)
But usually aliens are the more aggresive team, while marines are defensive, so aliens rarely lose rts. (and if they just have to send a drifter, while marines always have to move to the rts and powernodes to rebuild them - which is time they cant spend in building up pressure against the alien team, so its only natural that marines slip into a defence only role very easy - and unexperienced commanders tend to have sentry spam as their main tactic - which is fail and will never work)
Make JPers refuel at their local <strike>petrol station</strike> armoury. Naturally, I'd want a bit more mileage from a full tank in such a case, though.
<!--quoteo(post=1899469:date=Feb 3 2012, 04:21 PM:name=Soul_Rider)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soul_Rider @ Feb 3 2012, 04:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1899469"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Refuel is a case of stop pressing jump and let the energy bar refill.
Jetpack fuel is not much, chase them down until they run out of energy. If you try to run away from a jp it's not going to work. Keep chasing them down, 2 skulks can harass a jp until he's dead.
There is no hard counter to JP's other than teamwork.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I will also say that there are no hard counters, generally speaking, in NS2. It's a shooter first, and it's no fun to have no chance with faced with the wrong match up.
The nice thing about webbing is that the occasional strand in open hive rooms can catch out jp rushes and make marines more tentative. Trying to defend against jp's in that beautiful mineshaft hive room was impossible, I just tried to survive until they went away. Because they are so easy to destroy they'd only be good for setting traps and hopefully won't effect front lines so much.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1901029:date=Feb 8 2012, 07:02 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Feb 8 2012, 07:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1901029"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I will also say that there are no hard counters, generally speaking, in NS2. It's a shooter first, and it's no fun to have no chance with faced with the wrong match up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LOL, there is when I play Lerk! Hard counters are Marines, mines & sentries, even the environment! When I play lerk, everything is a hard counter to it :)
I feel the issue may be more to do with my skill as lerk rather than game balance though :)
It's good to hear, but I'm not seeing too much of it in-game. The flamethrower, for instance, is incredibly specialised - specialised against fades (or their energy, to be exact).
<!--quoteo(post=1901808:date=Feb 10 2012, 09:12 AM:name=Wolpertinger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wolpertinger @ Feb 10 2012, 09:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1901808"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@Flayra: Will Jetpacks eventually be something you could pick up from a dead Marine? Please, make it so.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wouldn't like this change. It's already pretty powerful that marines can pick up all weapons except the mines. If a alien dies all pres are lost.
<!--quoteo(post=1901811:date=Feb 10 2012, 04:31 PM:name=Nakorson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nakorson @ Feb 10 2012, 04:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1901811"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wouldn't like this change. It's already pretty powerful that marines can pick up all weapons except the mines. If a alien dies all pres are lost.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I would like to see aliens being able to destroy dropped weapons and equipment.
Comments
... Or it could go totally the other way round and marines figure out some totally overpowering ways to use the JP.
i knew this would be a problem, seeing as the aliens were only going to get the onos whilst marines got jps, exo, and dual mini guns.... aliens need something more....
truthfully the jp problem can be solved with stronger hydras... maybe make it so the alien commander can upgrade hydras into mature hydras, and they do more dmg plus more health?
Of course, time will show. I think jps haven't got the potential to be op now, but I'm prepared to stand corrected.
I dont like this, zerging a jetpacker until he makes a mistake or i get lucky. This is just lame.
It makes sense though, there should be certain weaknesses to each race. We can't have, "Kharaa can counter everything marine and just rape them or marines can do the same to the Kharaa." I do believe the jetpacks will become more difficult to obtain later-on, but there is the level of needing to build and research jetpacks before units can then 'buy' them.
The jet pack could have its own armour meter, lower than that of the marine. Below a certain point the jet pack will become faulty, splutter when used, before finally becoming disabled and require repairing at the armoury.
It might encourage the jet pack to be used to cover distance, for rapid assaults, for improved survivability, for dogfighting lerks - but not for flying around a room forever like a mosquito.
I prefer the idea that the marines and aliens have different abilties...and perfect permanent flight should be for the aliens.
I didnt mean that the jetpacker should be easily killable by any type of alien lifeform. I just mean that there has to be a viable tactic for killing the jetpacker. Like webbing him with a gorge, or shooting him down as lerk.
+2
1ip, armory, advanced armory, prototype, jp research => 125res
Now you have jetpacks and lmgs, no base defence only 1 ip and your marines die in 2 bites + 1parasite/ 2 fade swipes etc...
lets add some stuff to make the jps really usefull and dont forget about base defence
2ips armory(20), armory(10), advanced armory(30), prototype(40), jp research(35), shotgun(10), armslab(20), armor 1(20), weapon 1(20), observatory(10) (so you can at least beacon "basedefence") => 215res
A little comparison:
Aliens need 2nd hive(75) whip(10), frenzy (10), swarm(10), 3 shells(30), regeneration(10), carapace(10) => 155res
(this is everything you need to win a game, if you dont have good lerks you can leave swarm out, its only really good for lerks if you ask me)
These res numbers are missing resource towers, 10res per RT (and you also need to take into account that they and maybe other structures might get destroyed)
But usually aliens are the more aggresive team, while marines are defensive, so aliens rarely lose rts. (and if they just have to send a drifter, while marines always have to move to the rts and powernodes to rebuild them - which is time they cant spend in building up pressure against the alien team, so its only natural that marines slip into a defence only role very easy - and unexperienced commanders tend to have sentry spam as their main tactic - which is fail and will never work)
Jetpack fuel is not much, chase them down until they run out of energy. If you try to run away from a jp it's not going to work. Keep chasing them down, 2 skulks can harass a jp until he's dead.
There is no hard counter to JP's other than teamwork.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I will also say that there are no hard counters, generally speaking, in NS2. It's a shooter first, and it's no fun to have no chance with faced with the wrong match up.
LOL, there is when I play Lerk! Hard counters are Marines, mines & sentries, even the environment! When I play lerk, everything is a hard counter to it :)
I feel the issue may be more to do with my skill as lerk rather than game balance though :)
I wouldn't like this change. It's already pretty powerful that marines can pick up all weapons except the mines. If a alien dies all pres are lost.
Well, I would like to see aliens being able to destroy dropped weapons and equipment.