Hydra needs either buff or cost reduction

flyjum · February 2012

<div class="IPBDescription">It feels very under powered for 10 personal res</div>Anyone else think the hydra is weak for 10 personal res?
A single marine can easily take out 2 hydras no problem with just the LMG.
You can drop 5 of them which costs 50 res and they will die off to a single marine with a GL

For a static defense structure it does not do a very good job.

I think it needs more DPS or a cost drop to 7 personal res.

peregrinus · February 2012

I rarely see hydra kills. Would like to see damage increased slightly, and their rate of fire sped up.

Same goes for turrets, they're hopeless spluttering distractions.

ChaosNL · February 2012

I'd say they need to be buffed a bit, damage and health wise, instead of making their costs lower. This will only cause hydra spamming all over the place. Which ends up with commander not being able to drop any chambers to support.

flyjum · February 2012

Also a buff will help the aliens if they get stuck on 1 hive
A gorge or two can defend the main hive with hydras while the other aliens work on defending the hive that is being built so it does not die which happens often.

_Necro_ · February 2012

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ChaosNL @ Feb 22 2012, 04:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1905881"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I'd say they need to be buffed a bit, damage and health wise, instead of making their costs lower. This will only cause hydra spamming all over the place. Which ends up with commander not being able to drop any chambers to support.</div>
And this is a major bug. There should be a counter of how many hydras can be placed AND a counter of how many buildings the com can place per area. And if you strengthen the damage of the hydra, you could decrease the counter, to prevent spamming.

edit: because of ninja

Racer1 · February 2012

Agreed that the hydra at 10 res is too easy to kill. There have been many options suggested (some better than others):
- Make it tougher/stronger
- Make it grow back
- Make it spawn mini-hydras
- Make it hide in the ground and only pop-up and attack when marines get close
- Make it be stronger if on "thick" infestation (this was inferred by a UW team ideas discussion a while back)

@Necro: If the game engine supports it, and it is properly balanced, then what is wrong with 15 hydras in a room? At the current cost, that's 3 less fades to deal with -- which I think most marines would gladly do without.

_Necro_ · February 2012

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racer1 @ Feb 22 2012, 05:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1905898"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>@Necro: If the game engine supports it, and it is properly balanced, then what is wrong with 15 hydras in a room? At the current cost, that's 3 less fades to deal with -- which I think most marines would gladly do without.</div>

Because every object (cysts, turrets, hydras, mines, etc.) slows down the server a bit. For performance it is better to have 3 strong and costly hydras than 8 cheap and weak ones.

Grissi · February 2012

Hydras are fine, they are not that easy to kill when the alien team is around supporting.
Their main role is to support lifeforms in battle and slow marines pushes down, well placed hydras do that very well.

Floodinator · February 2012

Hydras should be hitscan, not as easy evadable as now. 5 hydras in a row don't hit the evading rine alot.

kingmob · February 2012

They should make a decision

it is either a threat ...where it needs more damage or resilience

or it is an annoyance...and it is cheap...so I just build another one.

ÒŗăNģё · February 2012

The only time hydras are actually good is when marines don't shoot them as the hydra shoots the marine, its far to easy to kill hydras. Even if a gorge is heal spray spamming it, it only takes 2 lmg marines to kill it.

Sentries are hitscan with much faster rate of fire wich is ridiculous when they are supposed to be balanced structures, yeah big deal hydras can shoot 360degrees... all you have to do is move around and have steady aim on it and its dead, not only that but the LMG with GL attachment absolutely destroys them. With the new siege cannon a.k.a the ARC they are practically useless. Simply the hydra is out matched by any gun.

mushookees · February 2012

i was gonna make a long post with pictures and everything, then this thread came up :p ill just throw my 2c

i had a game where i built 6 hydras at crossroads hive that was being built. I also built 3 cysts so i could get them on the ceiling just infront of the hive, so thats a total of 69 res + 10 res for the gorge

what happened was the marine shotgun rushed the hive, they completely ignored the hydras and the hive died in 10 seconds even with me trying to heal it

Marines can shield a marine and medpack spam him as he runs into a mass of hydras, the marines behind him can then ignore the hydras and run past them straight to the hive, this means the best place to place hydras atm is around the hive, anywhere else is a waste of res, yet even within range of the hive, 6 hydras isnt enough to save a hive from a large attack

The problem with making them cheaper is that they will be spammed more
The problem with making them do more damage will be that they will own small attacks, then all we would see is mass rushes, which hydras are useless to defend against anyway
i would much rather see hydras do Area of effect damage, so a single hydra can damage multiple marines, or at least make them be able to attack 3 targets at the same time. This way, the greater the marine attack, the more worth while the hydra becomes.

Raneman · February 2012

They should just have a rapid ROF, dealing loads of DPS while still allowing marines to back off if they get caught in one.

Biglines · February 2012

Am I the only person that hates static defenses? imho they're fine as they are, they are expensive enough to be real investment instead of a "standard" strategy, while not effective enough that you actually need skill to be able to defend things, imho hydra's and turrets should be able to help defend areas, but not on their own.

NurEinMensch · February 2012

Maybe buff them up a bit but limit their numbers to like maybe 5 within 20m range.

1dominator1 · February 2012

Hydras are fine, or maybe could use a tiny buff. You just have to place the things right, it is not exactly reasonable to expect static defences to be able to hold off a dedicated attack this is an fps/rts not an rts.

Nakorson · February 2012

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (1dominator1 @ Feb 22 2012, 01:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1905956"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Hydras are fine, or maybe could use a tiny buff. You just have to place the things right, it is not exactly reasonable to expect static defences to be able to hold off a dedicated attack this is an fps/rts not an rts.</div>

compared to the sentrys the hydras seem to be to week.

Kouji_San · February 2012

Hmm, I dunno. Ceiling and Wall Hydra's seem to do their job fine. And are 360 shooters, while Turrets have a backstabbing issue so to speak...

Tell me, where exactly do you all place the Hydra's. I hope it's not on the ground, they have no business being the ground! Or in tight corridors due to grenade blast radius...

Nakorson · February 2012

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Feb 22 2012, 02:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1905959"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Hmm, I dunno. Ceiling and Wall Hydra's seem to do their job fine. And are 360 shooters, while Turrets have a backstabbing issue so to speak...

Tell me, where exactly do you all place the Hydra's. I hope it's not on the ground, they have no business being the ground! Or in tight corridors due to grenade blast radius...</div>

While the sentrys have the backstab problem their damage and health seems to be higher. And placing them so that they cover each other is no big problem. Taking sentrys out from far away takes a long time with the lerk, gorge can bile them, but without bile... Hydras can be killed easily from afar because all marines are ranged.

Mainly on the ceiling, in rare cases on the wall. In hallways and entrances to rooms, when possible where they cant be shot at from to far. In groups of ~5 but not close to each other so GL wont be to effective against them.

Kouji_San · February 2012

Indeed that is how I use them and I don't quite see an issue with them. AFAIK they should only soften the target by damaging their armor, finish off stragglers or function as early warning systems. They are support structures to help aliens in their attack and as such they are fine but could perhaps need a small buff in hp... Lone Hydra's should be a bit more vulnerable.

Skulks with hydra's in hidden hard to see places is a very dangerous combination... Imagine Goowalls in this mix as well!

PsiWarp · February 2012

I always try to hide my Hydras near the ceiling unless I need them to cover an entrance, and start attacking BEFORE Marines waltz in (so on the ground or wall). Really, I think since these are spiky plants, maybe when Marines walk through them (can't imagine why they would), they get damaged regardless of spikes connecting or not?

Less charging, more weeding.

Nakorson · February 2012

Sentrys are very powerfull alone, especially in early game. And since they are pretty much the only thing which can be used "effectively" against jetpackers.

Egad! · February 2012

Hydras and Sentires aren't meant to get kills. They are to support other aliens, or help delay a large assualt on a hive or rt until reinforcements can arrive. Many of you guys are essentially trying to add another player to the game, when static defenses are merely meant for support/delay.

Personally, I like the idea of a hydra being more like the TF2 sentry, where you can only build a limited number of them, but can later move them around. I think gorges should only be able to build maybe 3 hydras at a time, but can eat them to regain res and move them somewhere else.

IronHorse · February 2012

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mushookees @ Feb 22 2012, 10:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1905933"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>i would much rather see hydras do Area of effect damage, so a single hydra can damage multiple marines, or at least make them be able to attack 3 targets at the same time. This way, the greater the marine attack, the more worth while the hydra becomes.</div>
i agree about attacking multiple marines to an extent, but we should ENCOURAGE team work and coordination as the solution, not support lone, ninja individuals!
this idea works more:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsiWarp @ Feb 22 2012, 12:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1905963"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I think since these are spiky plants, maybe when Marines walk through them (can't imagine why they would), they get damaged regardless of spikes connecting or not?
Less charging, more weeding.</div>
but not as much as whips, for very obvious reasons.<u> and make them hitscan ffs</u>. it could only help their effectiveness and network load, right?
and of course as egad and i have suggested before, allow gorges to EAT them so they can replace them and move them as the need changes or poor placement.
all this with a slight buff in health/armor (GL and FT should still wreck them) and wala! hydra in its glory days!

VeNeM · February 2012

increase hydra damage, they are too easily killed and are terrible.

twiliteblue · February 2012

Hydra's DPS is fine IMO. It's the Hydra Spike projectiles that are too slow. One Marine can easily kill 3 or more Hydras by strafing, dodging almost all the spikes.

PsiWarp · February 2012

^- Agreed, except for times when you are charging headfirst into the Hydras (dumb dumb!), even without sprinting you pretty much take no damage.

The idea is to allow quick moving targets (Jetpackers) to more effectively evade Hydra spikes, but the spikes ought to get lots of hits on non-sprinting Marines.

Starkwind · February 2012

Hydras need a buff they are just too weak at the moment. however i think UWE knows this already and they have their reasons for not buffing them. Perhaps a buff to hydras will come closer to release

Visor1 · February 2012

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Starkwind @ Feb 22 2012, 09:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1906117"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Hydras need a buff they are just too weak at the moment. however i think UWE knows this already and they have their reasons for not buffing them. Perhaps a buff to hydras will come closer to release</div>

didn't they recently increase the armour of hydras?

PsiWarp · February 2012

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Gameplay task [198] Jetpacks + Axe + Pistol = not take damage from hydras transitioned from Started to Delivered</div>

Totally valid reason for Hydra buff >:P

Zek · February 2012

I still feel like Hydras should be designed to be temporary and expendable. Leave the permanent map defense to the commander.

Hydra needs either buff or cost reduction

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