<!--quoteo(post=1908656:date=Mar 1 2012, 10:46 AM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Mar 1 2012, 10:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908656"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wonder how the fades ability is.
Why always these comparing? A arc is way more diffrent to a a (great) siege, a arc can move and is a way more dangerous enemy then a siege.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The flipside is that unlike a siege cannon, arcs HAVE to move, you could drop siege cannons on top of marines, arcs need escorting and sustaining on site, and are time consuming and difficult to replace deep in enemy territory.
All the changes in the log sound rather good, cloak shaders were annoying the hell out of me, sentry ammo was really pointless, shotgun randomness was irritating, hives could do with being less vulnerable to shotgun rushes, was tired of having to use loads of arcs to get things done.
<!--quoteo(post=1908635:date=Mar 1 2012, 11:38 AM:name=OnosFactory)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OnosFactory @ Mar 1 2012, 11:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908635"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->PLz Plz, how come every patch I have to turn off atmospherics and aa in setup to rune the game? Okay that isnt my question, my question is HOW DO I DO SO, where is the option in game....oh wait.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh damn, my bad, i wrote u about the setup too apparently.... But yea, u can do it in game in the console: "r_atmospherics true/false" etc.
oldassgamersJoin Date: 2011-02-02Member: 80033Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
Third person view marines when hitting structors with axe is bugged. The animation is "ichy" , really cant figure out a good english word for that. Hopefully you understands what I'm trying to mean :)
Having shadow step on double tap is stupid, everyone on the server I'm on including me is complaining and just staying away from fade. You're going along mid-blink and try move ot the side and BAM 10 metres to the side. It feels impossible. Also the blink momentum is good except for the fact you cant change the direction out of the blink, it just keeps moving forward. That's an issue NS1 fade momentum didn't have.
Will add more as I play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd rather have NS1 fade exactly as it was that can get hit when blinking instead of all this "cinematic" crap.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1908641:date=Mar 1 2012, 10:03 AM:name=OnosFactory)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OnosFactory @ Mar 1 2012, 10:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908641"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, there is a way to change things in xml, I know so. Okay so I might have to do it every patch, but how? f this is annoying. Why so much different from any other games main menu or start up option? Gah. I don't really mind if a patch ganks my performance, however I need the ability to adapt...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> There is a new menu in the works, which will have more options. Beta an all, remember :) To get this as a permanent setup for now you have to do the following:
<ul><li>Go to run in your start menu or use the Windows key+R combination and type</li><li>%appdata%\Natural Selection 2</li><li>Open up options.xml with notepad and search for <display> (CTRL+F), now add the following in between the <display> **** </display> tags <ul><li><antialiasing>true</antialiasing> <atmospherics>false</atmospherics></li></ul></li><li>Save the file</li></ul>
Anti-aliasing can't be the cause unless you have a REALLY old pc/graphics card.
I just don't understand why developers insist on steering away from one of the most amazing abilities ever created "Bunnyhopping". I mean shadowstepping is tacky and clunky, right click to blink is too easy, but Bunnyhopping has and will always be the most skill based asset in any game once you learn it. Quake Live, Counter-Strike or any other game related to the Half-Life engine were and still are the most successful shooters in the competitive realm. If your looking for just money, then go right click blink for the call of duty players, if your trying to find that medium ground... Bunnyhopping really needs to just come back in to the fps realm.
You can't get a better feel and control out of a game without including Bunnyhopping. IT makes for more interesting and dynamic gameplay. Man do I ever want a nex generation shooter to just stick to the original roots of real fps gaming...
I never saw the appeal of bunnyhopping, it looks dumb, is needlessly complicated for a basic movement ability, and frankly the idea of it bores the hell out of me. It isn't interesting, it's been done before, it's like making a shooter that's a COD clone, I want something new and different, not the same thing I played ten years ago.
The <i><b>real </b></i>reason people don't like fade changes is because they are <i><b>dying </b></i>more.
Blink costs more energy now and it takes some time to <i>adjust to the change</i>. Prior to 199 the fade could blink around alot before having to run away. I had to relearn how long to stay in combat before running away to heal. It's down from about ~16s to ~8s depending on how much you blink.
I do not understand most of the arguments against shadow-step. Yes it is a fixed distance, but would you rather not have the ability?
When you think about it, the fade now has the options of: <ol type='1'><li>Fixed, predictable movement</li><li>Unfixed, predictable movement</li></ol> As time goes by I'm sure we'll see better and better skill based fade play (probably not by me).
<!--quoteo(post=1908683:date=Mar 1 2012, 07:57 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Mar 1 2012, 07:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908683"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I never saw the appeal of bunnyhopping, it looks dumb, is needlessly complicated for a basic movement ability, and frankly the idea of it bores the hell out of me. It isn't interesting, it's been done before, it's like making a shooter that's a COD clone, I want something new and different, not the same thing I played ten years ago.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Two words, <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vQpW9XRiyM" target="_blank">glory days</a>. It was a glitch, and I'm glad it was patched away even though I had plenty of fun with it.
I like the fact that i can click blink then after a second or so double tap the forward key (or another direction) and keep 100% energy, yet still traverse the map quickly.
What i dont like is it feels very jerky and far from fluid. It reminds me of the days i was learning to fade in NS1. I hit every damn wall and looked very stupid.
Has anyone else had success in controlling your movement though the corridors of Mineshaft smoothly? I would say this is a step in a good direction (though i love BHop), it just needs a lot more air control, though i have no idea how to explain that technically.
Background wise i have played fade very very little so i did not get used to any style of movement prior to 198. I had nothing to adapt too and just took it as is. I am far from a trend setter or movement expert so i could be doing this entirely wrong, though it gets me from point A to B quickly and as i said at 100% energy.
Maybe if you had to time the movement double tap and could likewise time the blink it could be chained into a fluid movement? Sorta of like how counter attack works in more action RPG's. Time it at the right animation and get rewarded.
*edit* - I am also with the camp on changing the double tap. Maybe to holding the special movement key like skulk super wall cling?
Not tried 199 yet but will tonight and am looking forward to it as the change log sounds good. Don't like the idea of having to double tab at all. Why not tap left mouse to shadow step and hold to blink? Or right mouse for step and left to blink. Or just give us the option to choose for ourselves in game whatever suits us best?
Uh-oh someone mentioned the B word. You just went and spoilt my day off work. I left NS1 because of it and so did all my friends. It comes back...I leave. The slower more tactial way the game is developing would be destroyed by its return and like NS1 the game would be left with a few hard core clan players and I really don't think the devs want that. It has to appeal to, and be fun for the casual player as much as the ones who play 6 hours a night. Marine jump spam id bad enough. Bhopping has its place in games like Quake and UT but not in NS2.
And anyway "I used to be a bunnyhopper like you, then I took an arrow in the knee" ehehe.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
Seeing how fades are the most vulnerable they ever were, it'd probably be good to bring back the original armor rating from before all the nerfs. Against a lategame shotgunner with some skill, they're pretty much made of paper.
<!--quoteo(post=1908580:date=Mar 1 2012, 04:20 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Mar 1 2012, 04:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908580"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you're in melee range you should be slashing the marine instead of spamming blink. Which the shadowstep would either be used to hop to the next marine or get some direction to blink away.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1908685:date=Mar 2 2012, 12:05 AM:name=autograder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (autograder @ Mar 2 2012, 12:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908685"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do not understand most of the arguments against shadow-step. Yes it is a fixed distance, but would you rather not have the ability?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I guess i will have to draw you a picture. F to F is shadowstep distance. M is marine. F to nearest x is fade melee range. M..x.F.x..M..x.F
See why shadowstep is clunky? I could shadowstep all day and not hit a single decent marine with half a brain. This is the same as making blink work only in 10 metre intervals - i hope i dont need to explain to you why that would be silly.
<!--quoteo(post=1908631:date=Mar 1 2012, 08:09 PM:name=OnosFactory)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OnosFactory @ Mar 1 2012, 08:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908631"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just Dling now, but lemme guess, now we *finally* have Fade skill movement, and people are unhappy...who could have guessed lol! Get over it, at least they din't put the 2nd hive cost up! (too 100, lol that would be troublesome now wouldn't it!)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh ho ho, im all for more skilled fade movement but shadowstep feels incredibly clunky. Its like ripping out all the keys on someone's keyboard, telling them everytime they make a typo a kitten dies and calling that "increasing the skill ceiling". Infact i wish they had put the hive cost up to 100, and im totally fine with higher blink energy costs. All im saying is that shadowstep as it is currently is probably not a very good mechanic in and of itself. Its perhaps.. unresponsive?
Fade changes seem good, but the double tap is annoying. It feels unresponsive and sometimes I feel like I need to tap 3 or 4 times. I think it would work better if you could also hold shift and then simply press the direction.
Skulk walljumping still feels funny to me but maybe I'm not used to it. If you're moving along parallel to the wall and you press jump, you sort of just fall off the wall or do a very tiny jump. I think it'd be better if you jumped in the direction you were looking and gained the speed boost in that direction as well.
Instead of trying to throw out new things why don't we try to improve them?
Increasing the time threshold for double tap shadowstep would be a <i>step</i> in the right direction. (God that pun was horrible.)
Perhaps decreasing the length of the steps so it's used in tighter combat and trying to make the double taps within a certain window of opportunity so players don't accidentally activate.
I am reading that some people are not liking the double tap. I remember some people disabling it in Unreal Tournament because they did by accident more than on purpose.
Perhaps instead of having the double tap trigger the shadow step...
The rush direction is chosen by the direction the person moves toward after holding the blink button. So if i am running forward I would blink forward. Backward I blink backward... strafe i....you get the idea. It could even still default to forward after 300 ms or so if you stay at rest. (Something based on average human reaction time)
This would allow a newb fade to use and go wow at the blink effect. while allowing a pro fade to circle strafe blink.
Keep in mind all these thoughts are reading comments before taking new fade for spin.
BTW while we're talking about Fade, please give the Blink filter the same treatment as cloak from this patch. The current effect is extremely disorienting in combat without using alien vision(which just turns it off completely).
I like the new shadow step, but i don't like the double-tapping. I shadowstepped accidentally sometimes when i was climbing on stuff or when i was adjusting my position while hitting marine structures. I think in combination with shift key it would be really great <3
<!--quoteo(post=1908618:date=Mar 1 2012, 07:41 AM:name=yimmasabi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yimmasabi @ Mar 1 2012, 07:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908618"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Still I can't play :( It crash when I join or create a lan game
Here is the log ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1908640:date=Mar 1 2012, 10:03 AM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Mar 1 2012, 10:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908640"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your problem could be the map (rockdown). The developers stopped supporting it a year ago.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, its a bug a few of us still share since 190. I'm convinced it is a glitch in the coding for the multi threading that allows the client and server code to run simultaniously when loading a new map that max discusses on this video: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt8_lShjatg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt8_lShjatg</a> <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=116036&hl=" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...=116036&hl=</a> <!--fonto:Arial--><span style="font-family:Arial"><!--/fonto-->
Still, no go for me :(
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->Date: 03/01/12 Time: 07:34:13 -------------------------------------------------------------- Build 199 Starting Natural Selection 2 RenderDevice: ATI Radeon HD 4600 Series (6.14.10.7039) Connected to Steam servers Connecting to server 127.0.0.1:27015 Error: Couldn't open file 'models/alien/shift/shift.model Error: Couldn't open file 'models/alien/shift/shift.animation_graph Error: Couldn't open file 'models/alien/cocoon/cocoon.model Error: Couldn't open file 'models/marine/exosuit/exosuit_mm.model Error: Couldn't open file 'models/marine/exosuit/exosuit.animation_graph Error: Couldn't open file 'models/marine/exosuit/exosuit_mm_view.model Error: Couldn't open file 'models/marine/exosuit/exosuit_view.animation_graph Loading 'maps/ns2_tram.level' Error: Couldn't open file ' Client connecting (127.0.0.1)<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc-->
I like the shadow step but personally i find its on the wrong key.
I suggest move the shadow step to right click since it can be done in any direction, and move fades blink to "e".
The fade doesnt use e, and if youre wondering why we shouldent use E for the shadow step is cause it would require letting go of another key such as D. And since blink can only be done forward it might just work, that or holding down space bar ? (edit: just remembered fades need a use key to get in the hive :/, need a new idea on that one, could just turn blink into a skill which people can then switch between "last weapon used" like in ns1)
All in all i think the fades got alot of potential for high level players to experiment with.
<!--quoteo(post=1908682:date=Mar 2 2012, 01:50 AM:name=Slithers)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Slithers @ Mar 2 2012, 01:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908682"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just don't understand why developers insist on steering away from one of the most amazing abilities ever created "Bunnyhopping". I mean shadowstepping is tacky and clunky, right click to blink is too easy, but Bunnyhopping has and will always be the most skill based asset in any game once you learn it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For the bunny hopping and this *skill* thing your implying is a bit wrong, majority of the people who bunnyhopped used scripts, sure a few people used mousewheel and timed their jumps but scripts really gave average wannabe's an easy answer to look pro.
<!--quoteo(post=1908754:date=Mar 1 2012, 04:49 PM:name=assbda)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (assbda @ Mar 1 2012, 04:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908754"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For the bunny hopping and this *skill* thing your implying is a bit wrong, majority of the people who bunnyhopped used scripts, sure a few people used mousewheel and timed their jumps but scripts really gave average wannabe's an easy answer to look pro.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What you say is gross generalisation at the most. While some people did use scripts to bunnyhop, the script didn't do it for you. You still needed to control your direction with the mouse and manoeuvre in the correct fashion to attain maximum speed. All the script did was help time the jump a bit more, nothing else. Infact, it was actually easier to bunnyhop with the mousewheel.
DghelneshiAims to surpass Fana in post edits.Join Date: 2011-11-01Member: 130634Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited March 2012
My first observations after a bit of testing: <ol type='1'><li>Skulk walljump is completely broken now. You actually have to get on the wall now to recieve a speedboost, which is incredibly hard and tedious to do, while jumping when still on ground near a wall results in the skulk not even attempting to jump. Gaining any significant speed boost is impossible without making huge detours now and sometimes you won't even get a speedboost, so it's pretty useless.</li><li>New air control feels strange. All of the observations below are for skulk. <ol type='a'><li>Holding W and alternating A and D while jumping gives you ~9.5 speed and makes you "wiggle" in the air. You can achieve the same speedboost by changing view direction, but it's pretty hard.</li><li>Not holding W while alternating A and D while jumping gives you less air control/speed.</li><li>Jumping forward, releasing W and then alternating A and D results in either: <ol type='1'><li>An uncontrolled jump sideways (not because of pressing the A/D key too early, unless jumping is bugged and lags behind and you are still "on ground" for longer than you should).</li><li> Slowing down to ~6.5, less air control than with holding W.</li></ol></li><li>Holding S and jumping slows you down to 2 (?!).</li><li>Holding W and alternating A and D while on ground slows you down to ~6.5.</li></ol></li><li>Fade needs more air control and strafe blink to feel good, but it's a step in the right direction.</li><li>Fade shadowstep cuts my fps in half while the effect is showing.</li></ol>
Also, print() seems to be broken, which makes debugging mods a lot harder (at least for me). It doesn't print anything in the console for me.
Tried Fade today and IMO Shadowstepping is too clunky. The Energy use for blink is really too much for compensation for shadowstepping. Maybe some ppl with fade when they strife left and right and hold W ppl well "I" accidently keep shadowstepping when I dont want to (Some people may have the same issue). It seems harder to attack with skulks seems really heavy when jump biting for me
Fade blink should be reworked as a whole. There's absolutely no element of skill in blinking as there was in NS1. NS1 blinking was twitch based, and you really had to know every corner of the map in order to move efficiently and escape jetpacks. NS2 blinking has absolutely no element of skill, it's just pressing a button to move forward basically. Put an element of skill in it and we'll be happy.
I kind of like the momentum now, it looks good from the marine perspective, you can shoot them more often, but it's a bit borked from the fade one. One of the problem is the long delay between blink exit and swipe. I spent like 10 minutes bumping into jetpacks, unable to attack them because of the delay :
After a few hours of play last night, I have to add that I also kept accidentally shadow stepping as a fade. I was just trying to dodge left and right while attacking a marine, but then *poof* I was a lot farther away from the marine than intended.
I am sure things will be worked out in the end. There are still some things to add to the game like NS2 equivalent to heavy armor and HMG. ...and reconsider implementing the Onos devour. :D
I do like the vision when you are cloaked, now. A little clearer.
I like hive commander menu.
I don't like the new Gorge build menu (implemented last build - I think) as much as the older one where the structure you are spitting out is selected like a weapon. I do see the positives though; 1. After dropping a hydra or mini cyst and then being attacked by a marine, you're not dropping another structure (or attempting to drop) by clicking the attack button to spit at a marine. 2. It is under one build menu so you go to the same place to see all structures instead of twirling the mouse wheel around through your weapons.
Baffles me that after all these years, we are still having the "skill based movement" discussion.
If anything, we need to see <b>less </b>skill-based first-person gameplay. Alien melee attacks should slightly "autoaim" by lurching closer to the marine and getting a guaranteed hit instead of establishing a "chomp box" in the skulk/fade's FOV. Think of the homing attack in Sonic Adventure. Fade's should get split second "pull" on all marines close to their blink/ss exit point, a-la Mass Effect singularities, bringing in enemies for that first swipe. Energy costs should be jacked up to prevent spamming, and attacking structures should be replaced by a cinematic instead lots of "teeth on metal." You'll lose the ability to hide behind a structure and attack it at the same time, which would actually <i>cut down</i> on in-game chaos and probably be a step in the right direction.
<b>Then</b> you tweak the damage numbers from marine weapons.
NS2 isn't about how quickly you aim or how well you jump off of walls. Or it was never meant to be. It is how you defend or attack a room, how you walk down a hallway, how you set up an ambush. The more accessible you make the game, the more visible the metagame will be to people playing for the first time.
DghelneshiAims to surpass Fana in post edits.Join Date: 2011-11-01Member: 130634Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
So, aliens should take absolutely 0 skill to play and marines should stay like they are. Not going to cause any balance problems with differing player skill levels. Not at all.
Or do you want to make marines also auto-aim?
Do you want to play a game at all, or do you want to watch a marine vs aliens movie?
The thought of auto-aim or even a little is something I don't agree on. I did pretty fine at 198. why not have skill + the map control together? autoaim is not a really good idea
Comments
Why always these comparing?
A arc is way more diffrent to a a (great) siege, a arc can move and is a way more dangerous enemy then a siege.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The flipside is that unlike a siege cannon, arcs HAVE to move, you could drop siege cannons on top of marines, arcs need escorting and sustaining on site, and are time consuming and difficult to replace deep in enemy territory.
All the changes in the log sound rather good, cloak shaders were annoying the hell out of me, sentry ammo was really pointless, shotgun randomness was irritating, hives could do with being less vulnerable to shotgun rushes, was tired of having to use loads of arcs to get things done.
Oh damn, my bad, i wrote u about the setup too apparently.... But yea, u can do it in game in the console: "r_atmospherics true/false" etc.
Having shadow step on double tap is stupid, everyone on the server I'm on including me is complaining and just staying away from fade. You're going along mid-blink and try move ot the side and BAM 10 metres to the side. It feels impossible. Also the blink momentum is good except for the fact you cant change the direction out of the blink, it just keeps moving forward. That's an issue NS1 fade momentum didn't have.
Will add more as I play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd rather have NS1 fade exactly as it was that can get hit when blinking instead of all this "cinematic" crap.
There is a new menu in the works, which will have more options. Beta an all, remember :) To get this as a permanent setup for now you have to do the following:
<ul><li>Go to run in your start menu or use the Windows key+R combination and type</li><li>%appdata%\Natural Selection 2</li><li>Open up options.xml with notepad and search for <display> (CTRL+F), now add the following in between the <display> **** </display> tags
<ul><li><antialiasing>true</antialiasing>
<atmospherics>false</atmospherics></li></ul></li><li>Save the file</li></ul>
Anti-aliasing can't be the cause unless you have a REALLY old pc/graphics card.
You can't get a better feel and control out of a game without including Bunnyhopping. IT makes for more interesting and dynamic gameplay. Man do I ever want a nex generation shooter to just stick to the original roots of real fps gaming...
Blink costs more energy now and it takes some time to <i>adjust to the change</i>. Prior to 199 the fade could blink around alot before having to run away. I had to relearn how long to stay in combat before running away to heal. It's down from about ~16s to ~8s depending on how much you blink.
I do not understand most of the arguments against shadow-step. Yes it is a fixed distance, but would you rather not have the ability?
When you think about it, the fade now has the options of:
<ol type='1'><li>Fixed, predictable movement</li><li>Unfixed, predictable movement</li></ol>
As time goes by I'm sure we'll see better and better skill based fade play (probably not by me).
Two words, <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vQpW9XRiyM" target="_blank">glory days</a>.
It was a glitch, and I'm glad it was patched away even though I had plenty of fun with it.
I like the fact that i can click blink then after a second or so double tap the forward key (or another direction) and keep 100% energy, yet still traverse the map quickly.
What i dont like is it feels very jerky and far from fluid. It reminds me of the days i was learning to fade in NS1. I hit every damn wall and looked very stupid.
Has anyone else had success in controlling your movement though the corridors of Mineshaft smoothly? I would say this is a step in a good direction (though i love BHop), it just needs a lot more air control, though i have no idea how to explain that technically.
Background wise i have played fade very very little so i did not get used to any style of movement prior to 198. I had nothing to adapt too and just took it as is. I am far from a trend setter or movement expert so i could be doing this entirely wrong, though it gets me from point A to B quickly and as i said at 100% energy.
Maybe if you had to time the movement double tap and could likewise time the blink it could be chained into a fluid movement? Sorta of like how counter attack works in more action RPG's. Time it at the right animation and get rewarded.
*edit* - I am also with the camp on changing the double tap. Maybe to holding the special movement key like skulk super wall cling?
Uh-oh someone mentioned the B word. You just went and spoilt my day off work. I left NS1 because of it and so did all my friends. It comes back...I leave. The slower more tactial way the game is developing would be destroyed by its return and like NS1 the game would be left with a few hard core clan players and I really don't think the devs want that. It has to appeal to, and be fun for the casual player as much as the ones who play 6 hours a night. Marine jump spam id bad enough. Bhopping has its place in games like Quake and UT but not in NS2.
And anyway "I used to be a bunnyhopper like you, then I took an arrow in the knee" ehehe.
<!--quoteo(post=1908685:date=Mar 2 2012, 12:05 AM:name=autograder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (autograder @ Mar 2 2012, 12:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908685"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do not understand most of the arguments against shadow-step. Yes it is a fixed distance, but would you rather not have the ability?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess i will have to draw you a picture. F to F is shadowstep distance. M is marine. F to nearest x is fade melee range.
M..x.F.x..M..x.F
See why shadowstep is clunky? I could shadowstep all day and not hit a single decent marine with half a brain. This is the same as making blink work only in 10 metre intervals - i hope i dont need to explain to you why that would be silly.
<!--quoteo(post=1908631:date=Mar 1 2012, 08:09 PM:name=OnosFactory)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OnosFactory @ Mar 1 2012, 08:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908631"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just Dling now, but lemme guess, now we *finally* have Fade skill movement, and people are unhappy...who could have guessed lol! Get over it, at least they din't put the 2nd hive cost up! (too 100, lol that would be troublesome now wouldn't it!)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh ho ho, im all for more skilled fade movement but shadowstep feels incredibly clunky. Its like ripping out all the keys on someone's keyboard, telling them everytime they make a typo a kitten dies and calling that "increasing the skill ceiling". Infact i wish they had put the hive cost up to 100, and im totally fine with higher blink energy costs. All im saying is that shadowstep as it is currently is probably not a very good mechanic in and of itself. Its perhaps.. unresponsive?
Skulk walljumping still feels funny to me but maybe I'm not used to it. If you're moving along parallel to the wall and you press jump, you sort of just fall off the wall or do a very tiny jump. I think it'd be better if you jumped in the direction you were looking and gained the speed boost in that direction as well.
Instead of trying to throw out new things why don't we try to improve them?
Increasing the time threshold for double tap shadowstep would be a <i>step</i> in the right direction. (God that pun was horrible.)
Perhaps decreasing the length of the steps so it's used in tighter combat and trying to make the double taps within a certain window of opportunity so players don't accidentally activate.
I remember some people disabling it in Unreal Tournament because they did by accident more than on purpose.
Perhaps instead of having the double tap trigger the shadow step...
The rush direction is chosen by the direction the person moves toward after holding the blink button.
So if i am running forward I would blink forward.
Backward I blink backward... strafe i....you get the idea.
It could even still default to forward after 300 ms or so if you stay at rest.
(Something based on average human reaction time)
This would allow a newb fade to use and go wow at the blink effect.
while allowing a pro fade to circle strafe blink.
Keep in mind all these thoughts are reading comments before taking new fade for spin.
Here is the log
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<!--quoteo(post=1908640:date=Mar 1 2012, 10:03 AM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Mar 1 2012, 10:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908640"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your problem could be the map (rockdown). The developers stopped supporting it a year ago.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, its a bug a few of us still share since 190. I'm convinced it is a glitch in the coding for the multi threading that allows the client and server code to run simultaniously when loading a new map that max discusses on this video:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt8_lShjatg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt8_lShjatg</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=116036&hl=" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...=116036&hl=</a>
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Still, no go for me :(
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->Date: 03/01/12
Time: 07:34:13
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Build 199
Starting Natural Selection 2
RenderDevice: ATI Radeon HD 4600 Series (6.14.10.7039)
Connected to Steam servers
Connecting to server 127.0.0.1:27015
Error: Couldn't open file 'models/alien/shift/shift.model
Error: Couldn't open file 'models/alien/shift/shift.animation_graph
Error: Couldn't open file 'models/alien/cocoon/cocoon.model
Error: Couldn't open file 'models/marine/exosuit/exosuit_mm.model
Error: Couldn't open file 'models/marine/exosuit/exosuit.animation_graph
Error: Couldn't open file 'models/marine/exosuit/exosuit_mm_view.model
Error: Couldn't open file 'models/marine/exosuit/exosuit_view.animation_graph
Loading 'maps/ns2_tram.level'
Error: Couldn't open file '
Client connecting (127.0.0.1)<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc-->
I suggest move the shadow step to right click since it can be done in any direction, and move fades blink to "e".
The fade doesnt use e, and if youre wondering why we shouldent use E for the shadow step is cause it would require letting go of another key such as D.
And since blink can only be done forward it might just work, that or holding down space bar ?
(edit: just remembered fades need a use key to get in the hive :/, need a new idea on that one, could just turn blink into a skill which people can then switch between "last weapon used" like in ns1)
All in all i think the fades got alot of potential for high level players to experiment with.
<!--quoteo(post=1908682:date=Mar 2 2012, 01:50 AM:name=Slithers)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Slithers @ Mar 2 2012, 01:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908682"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just don't understand why developers insist on steering away from one of the most amazing abilities ever created "Bunnyhopping". I mean shadowstepping is tacky and clunky, right click to blink is too easy, but Bunnyhopping has and will always be the most skill based asset in any game once you learn it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For the bunny hopping and this *skill* thing your implying is a bit wrong, majority of the people who bunnyhopped used scripts, sure a few people used mousewheel and timed their jumps but scripts really gave average wannabe's an easy answer to look pro.
What you say is gross generalisation at the most. While some people did use scripts to bunnyhop, the script didn't do it for you. You still needed to control your direction with the mouse and manoeuvre in the correct fashion to attain maximum speed. All the script did was help time the jump a bit more, nothing else. Infact, it was actually easier to bunnyhop with the mousewheel.
<ol type='1'><li>Skulk walljump is completely broken now. You actually have to get on the wall now to recieve a speedboost, which is incredibly hard and tedious to do, while jumping when still on ground near a wall results in the skulk not even attempting to jump. Gaining any significant speed boost is impossible without making huge detours now and sometimes you won't even get a speedboost, so it's pretty useless.</li><li>New air control feels strange. All of the observations below are for skulk.
<ol type='a'><li>Holding W and alternating A and D while jumping gives you ~9.5 speed and makes you "wiggle" in the air. You can achieve the same speedboost by changing view direction, but it's pretty hard.</li><li>Not holding W while alternating A and D while jumping gives you less air control/speed.</li><li>Jumping forward, releasing W and then alternating A and D results in either:
<ol type='1'><li>An uncontrolled jump sideways (not because of pressing the A/D key too early, unless jumping is bugged and lags behind and you are still "on ground" for longer than you should).</li><li> Slowing down to ~6.5, less air control than with holding W.</li></ol></li><li>Holding S and jumping slows you down to 2 (?!).</li><li>Holding W and alternating A and D while on ground slows you down to ~6.5.</li></ol></li><li>Fade needs more air control and strafe blink to feel good, but it's a step in the right direction.</li><li>Fade shadowstep cuts my fps in half while the effect is showing.</li></ol>
Also, print() seems to be broken, which makes debugging mods a lot harder (at least for me). It doesn't print anything in the console for me.
NS2 blinking has absolutely no element of skill, it's just pressing a button to move forward basically.
Put an element of skill in it and we'll be happy.
I kind of like the momentum now, it looks good from the marine perspective, you can shoot them more often, but it's a bit borked from the fade one. One of the problem is the long delay between blink exit and swipe. I spent like 10 minutes bumping into jetpacks, unable to attack them because of the delay :
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3eOI4rsEZSs"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3eOI4rsEZSs" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
Anyway it's nice to see quick updates with some experimentations.
I am sure things will be worked out in the end. There are still some things to add to the game like NS2 equivalent to heavy armor and HMG.
...and reconsider implementing the Onos devour. :D
I do like the vision when you are cloaked, now. A little clearer.
I like hive commander menu.
I don't like the new Gorge build menu (implemented last build - I think) as much as the older one where the structure you are spitting out is selected like a weapon. I do see the positives though;
1. After dropping a hydra or mini cyst and then being attacked by a marine, you're not dropping another structure (or attempting to drop) by clicking the attack button to spit at a marine.
2. It is under one build menu so you go to the same place to see all structures instead of twirling the mouse wheel around through your weapons.
If anything, we need to see <b>less </b>skill-based first-person gameplay. Alien melee attacks should slightly "autoaim" by lurching closer to the marine and getting a guaranteed hit instead of establishing a "chomp box" in the skulk/fade's FOV. Think of the homing attack in Sonic Adventure. Fade's should get split second "pull" on all marines close to their blink/ss exit point, a-la Mass Effect singularities, bringing in enemies for that first swipe. Energy costs should be jacked up to prevent spamming, and attacking structures should be replaced by a cinematic instead lots of "teeth on metal." You'll lose the ability to hide behind a structure and attack it at the same time, which would actually <i>cut down</i> on in-game chaos and probably be a step in the right direction.
<b>Then</b> you tweak the damage numbers from marine weapons.
NS2 isn't about how quickly you aim or how well you jump off of walls. Or it was never meant to be. It is how you defend or attack a room, how you walk down a hallway, how you set up an ambush. The more accessible you make the game, the more visible the metagame will be to people playing for the first time.
Not going to cause any balance problems with differing player skill levels. Not at all.
Or do you want to make marines also auto-aim?
Do you want to play a game at all, or do you want to watch a marine vs aliens movie?