<!--quoteo(post=1908261:date=Mar 1 2012, 12:38 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Mar 1 2012, 12:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908261"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gorge can help speed up construction of Drifter structures currently, although I never see Gorge do this at all...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> i do this.. me..meeee.. thats my job, i could do this all day long
<!--quoteo(post=1908332:date=Mar 1 2012, 03:16 AM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Mar 1 2012, 03:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908332"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->while I support this idea fully, it won't happen.
Charlie stated more than once, he refuses to remove alien commander, and its here to stay no matter what. So even if it doesn't work, he will still support it...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Alright, so assuming it's absolutely definitely going to stay no matter what - Would it still be wrong to allow the Gorges some more of the classic gameplay that once made them so unique? These guys are what NS was all about :D
<!--quoteo(post=1908326:date=Feb 29 2012, 07:11 PM:name=Xostean)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xostean @ Feb 29 2012, 07:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908326"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gorges support their team in more than 1 way without this ability. (Examples, Healing, Defensive Construction, Spreading creep)
This would also make the alien commander practically useless.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1908327:date=Feb 29 2012, 07:13 PM:name=LV426-Colonist)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LV426-Colonist @ Feb 29 2012, 07:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908327"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Allowing gorges to build -> the solution to alien commander.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No it wouldnt make the alien commander useless ! One of the major problems for the alien side in NS1 (public) was that the alien team was very dependent on gorges.If there were no gorges who build RTs, chambers and saved res for hive or even much worser no one evolved to gorge the game was lost very quickly.In other words good and experienced gorges behind the frontline were the main factor for a win for the aliens in NS1.
So i love the addition of the alien commander in NS2 because there is no dependents for gorges anymore ! Just for example remember in NS1 you were gorge and saved 49 res and got killed by a ninja marine 10 seconds before dropping hive and preparing a alien 2nd hive rush.It destroyed in a way the whole game and was very frustating.In NS2 you only need to resend one more drifter for the hive and thereover you dont loose res and so much time.
I only want the gorge in NS2 to have the ability to build more chambers like mini crags, whipes and shades.It would give him more fun to play and add different ways how to play a gorge in NS2.
Alien commander and gorge are/could be the perfect symbiosis !
Some overlap in the items that both gorge and commander build would help.
If the gorge could build harvesters while the commander built the hive. If the gorge could build a crag for a forward base.
I want the alien commander role to stay. It is better to have the overhead view. I can't count how many friends were turned off by NS1 because of this. In NS1 the gorge would work fine in a 6v6 but bigger games and all you see is the 10% of the map you are in...what?
If Gorges can build some structures, the Alien Commander should at least still handle those structures' upgrades and such, since he's not going anywhere.
But as aforementioned, the chamber structures on Gorge & Drifter would help greatly as they are meant for support, and the Khamm can mature the structures for more abilities while Gorges place them near the front-lines; with Drifters, Khamms often just store the structures around the Hive for keepsake, and we've already got the Shells, Veils and soon Spurs for that.
<!--quoteo(post=1908400:date=Mar 1 2012, 05:47 AM:name=kingmob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kingmob @ Mar 1 2012, 05:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908400"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Some overlap in the items that both gorge and commander build would help.
If the gorge could build harvesters while the commander built the hive. If the gorge could build a crag for a forward base.
I want the alien commander role to stay. It is better to have the overhead view. I can't count how many friends were turned off by NS1 because of this. In NS1 the gorge would work fine in a 6v6 but bigger games and all you see is the 10% of the map you are in...what?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what about mini crangs for the gorge, or smaller buildings in general, giving the commander the option to upgrade them to full sized buildings. giving the gorge a asissting drifter like role. since the marine commander is not completely relying on macs to do stuff, why should the alien com? giving the gorge mini buildings would decrease the slow reaction time the aliens usualy have until drifters arrive. and since hydras are already quite expensive for a gorge to build , the other mini buildings could have the same res model. drifters would be still the main building force since gorges just cant spend as much res.
<!--quoteo(post=1908332:date=Mar 1 2012, 05:16 AM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Mar 1 2012, 05:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908332"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->gorge has no role in this game currently, all he can do, and been doing is spam hydras and be field medic. The role has been dumbed down so much, it isn't fun playing this class. That is why charlie is adding this "goo wall" idea for the class, maybe make him fun or useful again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, this is very wrong. Combat gorging is incredibly effective especially in pairs. Its also incredibly fun :p. Gorges were important in ns1 because a death meant less res for RT's and chambers hence they were always a builder/support. Gorge deaths in ns2 are both relatively cheaper and have very little consequence, allowing for a more combat centric role. You can afford to tank damage and risk dying now.
UWE has repeatedly said that the alien commander is here to stay.
Battle gorges are alot of fun against tier 1 marines, although once performance is better (marines reg hits) this will be harder to do me thinks. ...and the Gorge should have a mini crag.
<!--quoteo(post=1908470:date=Mar 1 2012, 09:41 AM:name=PsiWarp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsiWarp @ Mar 1 2012, 09:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908470"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But then the Gorge would be blocking res flow xO!!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bugger... Let Gorge piggy back ride on the drifters!! :|
looks at my many posts suggesting that gorges be able to drop only available chambers that cannot be upgraded by the gorge. for example, shades, crags, MAYBE whips. ONLY after commander picks the chambers that aliens will be using.
<!--quoteo(post=1908259:date=Feb 29 2012, 07:34 AM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Feb 29 2012, 07:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908259"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The alien commander is here to stay and he needs a role. There's simply no way to let the gorge build structures without robbing the commander of his biggest purpose.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
alien coms job is to get the aliens in a position to win. relaying info, dropping hives, keeping upgrades/res coming, dropping hives. my idea turns gorge back into what he was in ns1, support. instead of what he is now, a sometimes helpful, hydra spammer. plus limiting the gorge to available chambers minus res towers keeps him balanced and gives gorge players more options to play with. if you wanna be a helpful gorge by dropping hydras in strategic areas then giving the gorge to drop them does so. but youll prolly think this is incorrect since i said ns1 earlier so ill just end this here.
The fact that creep itself heals kind of gives the gorge the role it is meant for.
When I gorge offensively, i find myself extending creep and healing like nuts, I do think the gorge needs one more building though, perhaps a sort of "general buff" building that costs a fair amount and gives any aliens in the area a general health/adrenaline buff. I do miss the days of movement chambers in order to get the energy buffs.
<!--quoteo(post=1908561:date=Mar 1 2012, 01:36 PM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Mar 1 2012, 01:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908561"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do think the gorge needs one more building though, perhaps a sort of "general buff" building that costs a fair amount and gives any aliens in the area a general health/adrenaline buff. I do miss the days of movement chambers in order to get the energy buffs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
for sure, that's what being Gorge was all about. It seems unfortunate that the pudgy little ###### has been forced into a mindless drone-labor role :p
What if instead of the gorge building all the structures, s/he could build one structure that combines all passive hive abilities. Crag hive? It heals in a radius around it. Shade hive? Cloak. Both? Heal and Cloak in one chamber. Call it something but it would be a super chamber. Great to put behind goo walls and maybe have them able to spread infestation.
edit* - It would also dynamically update to the current hive situation.
I still think my suggestion, although long is quite detailed and brings together gorge and khammander quite well for a symbiotic, asymmetrical experience that satisfies everyone and makes things more aesthetically pleasing and interesting.
Its the longest post on page 2.
Seems everyone else's suggestions are incomplete blurbed out thoughts. No offense, but the khammander and gorge gameplay mechanic needs an overhaul and removing the khammander or giving gorges the ability to build crags, whips, shades and shifts or increasing hydra cost effectiveness isn't going to cut it.
<!--quoteo(post=1908722:date=Mar 1 2012, 10:24 AM:name=kingmob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kingmob @ Mar 1 2012, 10:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908722"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Dude everyone thinks their suggestion is the right one.
I hate to tell you but placing "No Offense" after a slightly offensive comment doesn't work when interacting with humans.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No offense but dead kittens. point taken though.
I do feel small changes aren't addressing the issue that marine comm feels very solid because marine comm existed in NS1. Alien Khamm however is a new concept and at this moment it feels too much like marines comm, except that Khamm has far less micro and upgrades to manage. The problem is Alien Khammander is far too symmetrical and the concept and roles aren't fully fleshed out enough.
Allowing gorges to build takes more roles away from Kham. Tweaking Hydras and the implmentation of goo walls makes gorges and gameplay more fun and effective but doesn't address the issue of khammander/gorge interplay role.
tl:dr overhaul for khammander/gorge needed to emphasize asymmetry, compared to marine commander. Small ideas won't cut it, though suggestions and constructive criticisms are always welcome.
<!--quoteo(post=1908727:date=Mar 1 2012, 02:34 PM:name=Ohnojojo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ohnojojo @ Mar 1 2012, 02:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908727"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No offense but dead kittens. point taken though.
I do feel small changes aren't addressing the issue that marine comm feels very solid because marine comm existed in NS1. Alien Khamm however is a new concept and at this moment it feels too much like marines comm, except that Khamm has far less micro and upgrades to manage. The problem is Alien Khammander is far too symmetrical and the concept and roles aren't fully fleshed out enough.
Allowing gorges to build takes more roles away from Kham. Tweaking Hydras and the implmentation of goo walls makes gorges and gameplay more fun and effective but doesn't address the issue of khammander/gorge interplay role.
tl:dr overhaul for khammander/gorge needed to emphasize asymmetry, compared to marine commander. Small ideas won't cut it, though suggestions and constructive criticisms are always welcome.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Problem is a lot of us have been around a long time and have made good arguments on other ideas. Things dont pan out when you try to remove the Alien Comm. I have tried personally... it wont happen. Move on.
I have tried for a mini chamber idea, the idea was even picked up by Schimmel and implemented in his mod that got him his developer status. Still wasnt a good enough idea to get included even though it was thought out and described well.
So i try other ideas no matter how half baked in the off chance a dev reads and says either "That's a good idea" or "That is in the right direction but ill do it this way". Either way you inspire change.
*edit* Sorry, posted this quickly and didnt read your entire post. The tl:dr is correct. We have bashed our brains against the wall to get clarification on what they want the gorge's roll to be. Support? Offensive support? Commander helper? They are fleshing it out right now and you can tell the way they are going with the gorge to total support. I totally agree with you but you are voicing what i was saying a year or so ago :P
I loved the ability to help my team by setting up stations that healed and gave energy aka an alien strong hold at certain choke points in NS1 and would like to see that ability again. The Khamm wont waste a drifter on a front he cant see and have to micro that as well. Give it to the eyes on the ground. The gorge =) but like i said above mini-chambers were as close to a implemented idea as i have reached.
<!--quoteo(post=1908744:date=Mar 1 2012, 11:16 AM:name=RisingSun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RisingSun @ Mar 1 2012, 11:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908744"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Problem is a lot of us have been around a long time and have made good arguments on other ideas. Things dont pan out when you try to remove the Alien Comm. I have tried personally... it wont happen. Move on.
I have tried for a mini chamber idea, the idea was even picked up by Schimmel and implemented in his mod that got him his developer status. Still wasnt a good enough idea to get included even though it was thought out and described well.
So i try other ideas no matter how half baked in the off chance a dev reads and says either "That's a good idea" or "That is in the right direction but ill do it this way". Either way you inspire change.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not suggesting that alien khamm be removed, I'd like to see it's role become bigger and tie in with the gorge more aswell. Its just too much like marine commander, would like to see more asymmetry, micro and upgrades. Since micro and upgrades are inevitable, as more content comes out, the issue I believe is the lack of asymmetry and lack of things to do as an alien khamm.
Im not really sure how i feel about giving the gorge structures designed to be used the commander. What we need is to make it easier to have the gorge and khamm work together and NOT have them both be entirely separated from each other. There are several big problems that really interfere with this as it is now. For example, the cost of alien structures (Both kham and gorg). The current energy system forces the alien team to play out the same scenario over and over and doesnt allow any interference or the game will be lost. Period. The second issue is that the gorge can only use his buildingskills in places that are connected to the main line of cysts, which seriously limits strategic possibilities, (atleast in the early game). The gorg is forced to build in either the main hive, the middle chokepoint between first and second hive or at the second hive while its growing (if comm expanded cysts there). Theres no room for any element of surprise. In other words, the gorg lacks importance and stayingpower out in the battlefield.
So i thought about it and came up with a simple little idea that might have significant impact on the roles of gorges.
Give gorge the ability to create an area of infestation outside the reach of the main cystchain.
How it works:
Like the minicyst, its "bought" and placed using PRES. It could look like a small craglike structure that spreads infestation around its base in a certain radius. It can only be placed on the ground and can ONLY expand in the direction of the main hive or the closest location of the main line of cysts. In other words it would have to seek its way back to and connect with the main vein of infestation. When that connection is made forward expansion is viable again.
The size of infestation should be smaller then a normal khamdropped cyst and should allow hydras and minicysts to be placed above the structure itself. Another possibility would be that it infests walls by itself (not sure about this yet)
This structure should have some amount of HP and Armor (id like to hear some suggestions if you got any) that will prevent it from being sniped with ease. A moderate amount of effort should be able to take it down tho.
This should not be a cheap structure. In other words not spammable. Placement should be carefully considered and organised to make the most of your investment.
What are the benefits?
This would allow gorgs and kham to actually do something creative together. Set up a forward healing spot. Secure the second hive easier ( can be a problem for aliens against certain strategies). Put shades in sneaky spots around the map. Get the gorg closer to the frontlines and the fighting. Allow the gorg to place hydras in unexpected locations.
Im not sure if this method should work for capturing RT´s tho.
Whats your take on this idea? Post anything that comes to mind. Good or bad! I think this is worth atleast talking about.
I think you'll generally find that if you try to spread building and support to BOTH the gorge and the commander, you will generally end up with BOTH being underwhelming. The gorge had a really crucial and highly enjoyable role in NS1, imo this has been diminished greatly with the introduction of the alien commander. I personally don't see much gameplay benefit from having an allien commander, other than having someone with an overview and coordinating capacities. (Which to be fair could be something gorges too could easily have done with some sort of 'mini-commander mode giving them the overview and allowing them to set team priorities, as a gorge overseer as you will)
As it stands currently, there's not much to being an alien commander and there's not much to being a gorge. This means that usually, and certainly lategame, the commander too will sometimes jump out of the comm chair and play, giving the alien team a numerical advantage. (i.e for example 8 vs 7 because the marine comm never really jumps out of his chair since he has a lot more to do all the time) In NS 1, the player doing as a gorge what the comm does in NS2 would have no resources to quickly turn fade or onos later in the game. What this does IMO is significantly alter the balance between aliens and marines, since even the alien commander will evolve and help aliens fight at some point. (Not to mention that there will also generally be less gorges, which means more fighting power for the aliens in general)
You could solve this on two ways, either by making both the gorge and the commander a full-time role like they should be (and how the gorge was in NS1) or by largely cutting the underwhelming commander aspect on the alien side. The former would be nigh impossible without implementing a whole bunch of new things for the aliens, where as the latter would be a relatively easy change, certainly not just for the sake of nostalgia but for alien balance and gameplay in general.
Don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely in love with the new NS, but I think will many will agree when I say that the alien commander who was designed to introduce a new and exciting element to being aliens actually ended up doing the exact opposite by overshadowing the gorge and being an incredibly watered down version from its marine equivalent.
<!--quoteo(post=1908471:date=Feb 29 2012, 08:48 PM:name=RockyMarc)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RockyMarc @ Feb 29 2012, 08:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908471"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bugger... Let Gorge piggy back ride on the drifters!! :|<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you can do that already :)
you have to keep jumping and keep landing on the drifter as it moves
Comments
i do this.. me..meeee.. thats my job, i could do this all day long
Charlie stated more than once, he refuses to remove alien commander, and its here to stay no matter what. So even if it doesn't work, he will still support it...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Alright, so assuming it's absolutely definitely going to stay no matter what - Would it still be wrong to allow the Gorges some more of the classic gameplay that once made them so unique? These guys are what NS was all about :D
This would also make the alien commander practically useless.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1908327:date=Feb 29 2012, 07:13 PM:name=LV426-Colonist)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LV426-Colonist @ Feb 29 2012, 07:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908327"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Allowing gorges to build -> the solution to alien commander.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No it wouldnt make the alien commander useless !
One of the major problems for the alien side in NS1 (public) was that the alien team was very dependent on gorges.If there were no gorges who build RTs, chambers and saved res for hive or even much worser no one evolved to gorge the game was lost very quickly.In other words good and experienced gorges behind the frontline were the main factor for a win for the aliens in NS1.
So i love the addition of the alien commander in NS2 because there is no dependents for gorges anymore ! Just for example remember in NS1 you were gorge and saved 49 res and got killed by a ninja marine 10 seconds before dropping hive and preparing a alien 2nd hive rush.It destroyed in a way the whole game and was very frustating.In NS2 you only need to resend one more drifter for the hive and thereover you dont loose res and so much time.
I only want the gorge in NS2 to have the ability to build more chambers like mini crags, whipes and shades.It would give him more fun to play and add different ways how to play a gorge in NS2.
Alien commander and gorge are/could be the perfect symbiosis !
If the gorge could build harvesters while the commander built the hive.
If the gorge could build a crag for a forward base.
I want the alien commander role to stay.
It is better to have the overhead view.
I can't count how many friends were turned off by NS1 because of this.
In NS1 the gorge would work fine in a 6v6 but bigger games and all you see is the 10% of the map you are in...what?
But as aforementioned, the chamber structures on Gorge & Drifter would help greatly as they are meant for support, and the Khamm can mature the structures for more abilities while Gorges place them near the front-lines; with Drifters, Khamms often just store the structures around the Hive for keepsake, and we've already got the Shells, Veils and soon Spurs for that.
If the gorge could build harvesters while the commander built the hive.
If the gorge could build a crag for a forward base.
I want the alien commander role to stay.
It is better to have the overhead view.
I can't count how many friends were turned off by NS1 because of this.
In NS1 the gorge would work fine in a 6v6 but bigger games and all you see is the 10% of the map you are in...what?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what about mini crangs for the gorge, or smaller buildings in general, giving the commander the option to upgrade them to full sized buildings. giving the gorge a asissting drifter like role. since the marine commander is not completely relying on macs to do stuff, why should the alien com? giving the gorge mini buildings would decrease the slow reaction time the aliens usualy have until drifters arrive. and since hydras are already quite expensive for a gorge to build , the other mini buildings could have the same res model. drifters would be still the main building force since gorges just cant spend as much res.
No, this is very wrong. Combat gorging is incredibly effective especially in pairs. Its also incredibly fun :p. Gorges were important in ns1 because a death meant less res for RT's and chambers hence they were always a builder/support. Gorge deaths in ns2 are both relatively cheaper and have very little consequence, allowing for a more combat centric role. You can afford to tank damage and risk dying now.
Battle gorges are alot of fun against tier 1 marines, although once performance is better (marines reg hits) this will be harder to do me thinks.
...and the Gorge should have a mini crag.
is the fact that like somone talked about aliens have to expand in a straight line,
they only have 2 options, expand left, or expand right... thats really about it,
where as if a gorge could build by itself it could select some mid map point build it up as a base with offence and defence chambers -
That kinda dumbs down the strategy alot, when marines can still jump to any location on the map (limited now by powernodes) and build up
NS1 had more strategy involved in where you build your structures
But then the Gorge would be blocking res flow xO!!
Bugger... Let Gorge piggy back ride on the drifters!! :|
*shrugs*
alien coms job is to get the aliens in a position to win. relaying info, dropping hives, keeping upgrades/res coming, dropping hives. my idea turns gorge back into what he was in ns1, support. instead of what he is now, a sometimes helpful, hydra spammer. plus limiting the gorge to available chambers minus res towers keeps him balanced and gives gorge players more options to play with. if you wanna be a helpful gorge by dropping hydras in strategic areas then giving the gorge to drop them does so. but youll prolly think this is incorrect since i said ns1 earlier so ill just end this here.
When I gorge offensively, i find myself extending creep and healing like nuts, I do think the gorge needs one more building though, perhaps a sort of "general buff" building that costs a fair amount and gives any aliens in the area a general health/adrenaline buff. I do miss the days of movement chambers in order to get the energy buffs.
for sure, that's what being Gorge was all about. It seems unfortunate that the pudgy little ###### has been forced into a mindless drone-labor role :p
edit* - It would also dynamically update to the current hive situation.
Its the longest post on page 2.
Seems everyone else's suggestions are incomplete blurbed out thoughts. No offense, but the khammander and gorge gameplay mechanic needs an overhaul and removing the khammander or giving gorges the ability to build crags, whips, shades and shifts or increasing hydra cost effectiveness isn't going to cut it.
Dude everyone thinks their suggestion is the right one.
I hate to tell you but placing "No Offense" after a slightly offensive comment doesn't work when interacting with humans.
I hate to tell you but placing "No Offense" after a slightly offensive comment doesn't work when interacting with humans.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No offense but dead kittens.
point taken though.
I do feel small changes aren't addressing the issue that marine comm feels very solid because marine comm existed in NS1. Alien Khamm however is a new concept and at this moment it feels too much like marines comm, except that Khamm has far less micro and upgrades to manage. The problem is Alien Khammander is far too symmetrical and the concept and roles aren't fully fleshed out enough.
Allowing gorges to build takes more roles away from Kham.
Tweaking Hydras and the implmentation of goo walls makes gorges and gameplay more fun and effective but doesn't address the issue of khammander/gorge interplay role.
tl:dr
overhaul for khammander/gorge needed to emphasize asymmetry, compared to marine commander.
Small ideas won't cut it, though suggestions and constructive criticisms are always welcome.
point taken though.
I do feel small changes aren't addressing the issue that marine comm feels very solid because marine comm existed in NS1. Alien Khamm however is a new concept and at this moment it feels too much like marines comm, except that Khamm has far less micro and upgrades to manage. The problem is Alien Khammander is far too symmetrical and the concept and roles aren't fully fleshed out enough.
Allowing gorges to build takes more roles away from Kham.
Tweaking Hydras and the implmentation of goo walls makes gorges and gameplay more fun and effective but doesn't address the issue of khammander/gorge interplay role.
tl:dr
overhaul for khammander/gorge needed to emphasize asymmetry, compared to marine commander.
Small ideas won't cut it, though suggestions and constructive criticisms are always welcome.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Problem is a lot of us have been around a long time and have made good arguments on other ideas. Things dont pan out when you try to remove the Alien Comm. I have tried personally... it wont happen. Move on.
I have tried for a mini chamber idea, the idea was even picked up by Schimmel and implemented in his mod that got him his developer status. Still wasnt a good enough idea to get included even though it was thought out and described well.
So i try other ideas no matter how half baked in the off chance a dev reads and says either "That's a good idea" or "That is in the right direction but ill do it this way". Either way you inspire change.
*edit* Sorry, posted this quickly and didnt read your entire post. The tl:dr is correct. We have bashed our brains against the wall to get clarification on what they want the gorge's roll to be. Support? Offensive support? Commander helper? They are fleshing it out right now and you can tell the way they are going with the gorge to total support. I totally agree with you but you are voicing what i was saying a year or so ago :P
I loved the ability to help my team by setting up stations that healed and gave energy aka an alien strong hold at certain choke points in NS1 and would like to see that ability again. The Khamm wont waste a drifter on a front he cant see and have to micro that as well. Give it to the eyes on the ground. The gorge =) but like i said above mini-chambers were as close to a implemented idea as i have reached.
I have tried for a mini chamber idea, the idea was even picked up by Schimmel and implemented in his mod that got him his developer status. Still wasnt a good enough idea to get included even though it was thought out and described well.
So i try other ideas no matter how half baked in the off chance a dev reads and says either "That's a good idea" or "That is in the right direction but ill do it this way". Either way you inspire change.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not suggesting that alien khamm be removed, I'd like to see it's role become bigger and tie in with the gorge more aswell. Its just too much like marine commander, would like to see more asymmetry, micro and upgrades. Since micro and upgrades are inevitable, as more content comes out, the issue I believe is the lack of asymmetry and lack of things to do as an alien khamm.
So i thought about it and came up with a simple little idea that might have significant impact on the roles of gorges.
Give gorge the ability to create an area of infestation outside the reach of the main cystchain.
How it works:
Like the minicyst, its "bought" and placed using PRES. It could look like a small craglike structure that spreads infestation around its base in a certain radius. It can only be placed on the ground and can ONLY expand in the direction of the main hive or the closest location of the main line of cysts. In other words it would have to seek its way back to and connect with the main vein of infestation. When that connection is made forward expansion is viable again.
The size of infestation should be smaller then a normal khamdropped cyst and should allow hydras and minicysts to be placed above the structure itself. Another possibility would be that it infests walls by itself (not sure about this yet)
This structure should have some amount of HP and Armor (id like to hear some suggestions if you got any) that will prevent it from being sniped with ease. A moderate amount of effort should be able to take it down tho.
This should not be a cheap structure. In other words not spammable. Placement should be carefully considered and organised to make the most of your investment.
What are the benefits?
This would allow gorgs and kham to actually do something creative together. Set up a forward healing spot. Secure the second hive easier ( can be a problem for aliens against certain strategies). Put shades in sneaky spots around the map. Get the gorg closer to the frontlines and the fighting. Allow the gorg to place hydras in unexpected locations.
Im not sure if this method should work for capturing RT´s tho.
Whats your take on this idea? Post anything that comes to mind. Good or bad! I think this is worth atleast talking about.
I think you'll generally find that if you try to spread building and support to BOTH the gorge and the commander, you will generally end up with BOTH being underwhelming. The gorge had a really crucial and highly enjoyable role in NS1, imo this has been diminished greatly with the introduction of the alien commander. I personally don't see much gameplay benefit from having an allien commander, other than having someone with an overview and coordinating capacities. (Which to be fair could be something gorges too could easily have done with some sort of 'mini-commander mode giving them the overview and allowing them to set team priorities, as a gorge overseer as you will)
As it stands currently, there's not much to being an alien commander and there's not much to being a gorge. This means that usually, and certainly lategame, the commander too will sometimes jump out of the comm chair and play, giving the alien team a numerical advantage. (i.e for example 8 vs 7 because the marine comm never really jumps out of his chair since he has a lot more to do all the time) In NS 1, the player doing as a gorge what the comm does in NS2 would have no resources to quickly turn fade or onos later in the game. What this does IMO is significantly alter the balance between aliens and marines, since even the alien commander will evolve and help aliens fight at some point. (Not to mention that there will also generally be less gorges, which means more fighting power for the aliens in general)
You could solve this on two ways, either by making both the gorge and the commander a full-time role like they should be (and how the gorge was in NS1) or by largely cutting the underwhelming commander aspect on the alien side. The former would be nigh impossible without implementing a whole bunch of new things for the aliens, where as the latter would be a relatively easy change, certainly not just for the sake of nostalgia but for alien balance and gameplay in general.
Don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely in love with the new NS, but I think will many will agree when I say that the alien commander who was designed to introduce a new and exciting element to being aliens actually ended up doing the exact opposite by overshadowing the gorge and being an incredibly watered down version from its marine equivalent.
you can do that already :)
you have to keep jumping and keep landing on the drifter as it moves