Lerk mechanics
internetexplorer
Join Date: 2011-10-13 Member: 127255Members
Join Date: 2011-10-13 Member: 127255Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Brainstorming!</div>I'll brainstorm some lerk mechanics and post them here.
This list might be a bit messy, but I'll try to keep adding to it as I think of cool stuff to add to the Lerk. Maybe I'll write some big explanations of these - who knows?
<ul><li>The fade's "metabolize" self-heal from NS1, with a steep adrenaline cost</li><li>a projectile with knockback (like rockets in any classic fps game)</li><li>add small knockback to spikes (like the plasma gun in quake 3)</li><li>fixed shotgun spike spread pattern</li><li>spores that take some of your momentum as you drop them, and fall with gravity</li><li>raise the flight speed cap, make flapping cost adrenaline to encourage a tradeoff between fast movement and gliding</li><li>a ranged attack that has a very slow cycle time between shots, perfect accuracy, very high adrenaline cost and high damage (like the railgun in quake 3)</li><li>change the flight model so you can flap and strafe toward any direction while aiming and travel in that direction (making spike aim less suicidal)</li><li>make rapid-fire spike accuracy start off perfect, then decrease the longer you attack without stopping (this encourages strafing past players to attack, then swooping away again)</li></ul>
What do you think?
This list might be a bit messy, but I'll try to keep adding to it as I think of cool stuff to add to the Lerk. Maybe I'll write some big explanations of these - who knows?
<ul><li>The fade's "metabolize" self-heal from NS1, with a steep adrenaline cost</li><li>a projectile with knockback (like rockets in any classic fps game)</li><li>add small knockback to spikes (like the plasma gun in quake 3)</li><li>fixed shotgun spike spread pattern</li><li>spores that take some of your momentum as you drop them, and fall with gravity</li><li>raise the flight speed cap, make flapping cost adrenaline to encourage a tradeoff between fast movement and gliding</li><li>a ranged attack that has a very slow cycle time between shots, perfect accuracy, very high adrenaline cost and high damage (like the railgun in quake 3)</li><li>change the flight model so you can flap and strafe toward any direction while aiming and travel in that direction (making spike aim less suicidal)</li><li>make rapid-fire spike accuracy start off perfect, then decrease the longer you attack without stopping (this encourages strafing past players to attack, then swooping away again)</li></ul>
What do you think?
Comments
I'm don't know the viability of these ideas for NS2, but I am personally looking for new weapon ideas for my modified lerk, and some of these have already got me thinking :)
Those are the ones I like.
With the last one, I feel the damage of spikes may need to be tweaked to compensate, but I think the end result would be better than what is currently implemented.
The rest I'm iffy about, and the lerk metabolize thing I straight-up hate.
yeah I haven't fully reasoned it out...it was one of the ones that just popped into my head because it would be fun and it's missing from ns2
but stuff like the accuracy spread and airstrafing..those actually make some sense, I think :)
Definitely. They are not only logical, but would make the game feel better, as well as adding a bit more skill into the combat.
This allows lerk's to shoot better at marines and not be as vulnerable, it would require a bit of skill and fore-sight tho.
No. This will make the flamer to a Lerk-Hard-Counter and make gas useless against every marine squad with a flamer. The flamer is already a fade counter. The lerk should be able to escape without energy.
<!--quoteo(post=1909053:date=Mar 2 2012, 04:34 AM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Mar 2 2012, 04:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909053"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->*a ranged attack that has a very slow cycle time between shots, perfect accuracy, very high adrenaline cost and high damage (like the railgun in quake 3)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This will bring balance problems. The Spikes accuracy has been decreased, because he was to powerful in long-range battle. If you make him effective at long-range, you have to decrease his health. Resulting in a lerk not capable of short-range battle. Besides, the lerk is already fast enough. You only have to flap faster, to go with ultra-speed through the map. I don't even need regen when lerking, because I can reach a hive in 5 seconds at any position.
<!--quoteo(post=1909053:date=Mar 2 2012, 04:34 AM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Mar 2 2012, 04:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909053"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->*change the flight model so you can flap and strafe toward any direction while aiming and travel in that direction (making spike aim less suicidal)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't understand this. I can strafe-flap while aiming at marines.
While you bring up a valid point, I feel that this particular change is the most important. There should be more skill involved with lerk flight than "LOL IM GONNA FLY NO MATTER WHAT". I don't know how exactly one would stop the flamer countering the lerk, maybe decrease the amount of energy lost VS lerk?
My point is that while your statement is definitely valid, I do not think it is enough of a reason to write this idea off completely as you stated straight away by saying "No."
Well that's how it was in NS1, and it worked great. All it means is, same as Fade, you need to gauge how long to stay in combat and not overextend yourself.
The flamethrower doesn't 'hard counter' anything, if you conserve adrenaline, try to avoid being ignited, prioritize flamethrowers and retreat to healing sources often.
When a structure is added to replenish adrenaline (the way the movement chamber did in NS1), this won't be such a one-sided situation for the marines either.
<!--quoteo(post=1909144:date=Mar 2 2012, 04:27 AM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Mar 2 2012, 04:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909144"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This will bring balance problems. The Spikes accuracy has been decreased, because he was to powerful in long-range battle. If you make him effective at long-range, you have to decrease his health. Resulting in a lerk not capable of short-range battle. Besides, the lerk is already fast enough. You only have to flap faster, to go with ultra-speed through the map. I don't even need regen when lerking, because I can reach a hive in 5 seconds at any position.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, if they want the lerk to be weak at ranged combat the solution is to add a damage falloff mechanic like most of the guns have in TF2. Overthinking it and trying to explain how people *should play* a broken, weak class doesn't do any good.
<!--quoteo(post=1909144:date=Mar 2 2012, 04:27 AM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Mar 2 2012, 04:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909144"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't understand this. I can strafe-flap while aiming at marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can you move in a direction while aiming perpendicular to that direction? Please teach me your secrets.
<!--quoteo(post=1909193:date=Mar 2 2012, 08:21 AM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Mar 2 2012, 08:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909193"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry but I just can't think of a way to counter this problem. If the lerk needs energy to fly, he is dead as soon as he lost all his energy in combat. And is it really a problem, that he can fly no matter what?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not a problem that he can fly no matter what, but adding an adrenaline cost is a perfect way to balance<b> increased max flight speed</b>. You can fly the same speed as you used to, for a tiny energy cost, or you can fly faster than before for a bigger energy cost. The larger energy cost puts more stress on your spike/spore usage, but in exchange you move faster. NS1 was all about tradeoffs like that (and upgrades/buildings that alter them, like the movement chamber and adrenaline upgrade), instead of forcing players to always fly at ridiculously low speeds and then die.
Have you played NS1? It might be a good idea to fly around the map as a lerk in that for a minute to see what we're proposing. It's not like the fade where you run out of gas in 2 seconds and get killed.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->raise the flight speed cap, make flapping cost adrenaline to encourage a tradeoff between fast movement and gliding<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I made a quick implementation of this one, it works well I think :
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ot7NbhBuhe0"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ot7NbhBuhe0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?3sa4ojuru3m66ol" target="_blank">http://www.mediafire.com/?3sa4ojuru3m66ol</a>
Something I find a bit weird in the lerk flight is the gravity, at the end of the video I jump off in crevice but I feel like I should get much more speed out of it, I don't know.
I increased gravity a lot and tweaked the number accordingly, it's better I think, you feel that you gain speed when you go down and it allows to use height as a reservoir of speed. Flap up, glide down.
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ynMI8bKktHM"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ynMI8bKktHM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
A bit too fast maybe.
Next: looping and barrel roll.
<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?lziou33bx5bmzmh" target="_blank">http://www.mediafire.com/?lziou33bx5bmzmh</a>
Now, one programmer to another: how easy was it to set that up? I feel like I could probably be doing more than proposing ideas too...
so I just added self:DeductAbilityEnergy(4) to remove 4 energy point and then to test if you have enough energy to actually flap
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1--> if self:GetEnergy() > 4 then
..<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
The most complicated part for the movement related stuff is the vectorial math if you're not familiar with it (dot product, projections, ..) and a bit of differential equations (newton).
Just use one of the file above, unzip it in your ns2 folder, e.g.
"C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\natural selection 2\lerk_mod\lua\"
And then start the game with "C:\program files\Steam\steamapps\common\natural selection 2\NS2.exe" -game lerk_mod
cheats 1
lerk
And do some modification in "..\lerk_mod\lua\Lerk.lua" with decoda or another text editor. Look at the console for errors.
edit:
This is a real education too. Fun fact: both spike attacks have the same spread. This is completely unintuitive to anyone who has used a machinegun and a shotgun in an FPS game before.
Oh, and your gravity idea is especially cool because it makes roost look like a useful mechanic :)
According to their description in NS1, they aren't meant for racking up kills. They're meant for hit-and-run as well as support.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wiry, fast, and fierce, lerks attack on the wing -- harassing marine squads and supporting other Kharaa. Low armor and health means they usually keep their distance. Their vicious bite makes it a good idea for marines to, as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bring back primal scream as a tier-3 unlock:
<i>The rallying cry of the Kharaa -- boosts the power of nearby teammates. Aliens within 500 units gain 30% increased attack speed, 30% increased damage, and 60% more energy for 4 seconds</i>
You could always make your own thread about primal scream...
<!--quoteo(post=1909442:date=Mar 3 2012, 05:39 AM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Mar 3 2012, 05:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909442"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Too much talking, not enough testing :)
I made a quick implementation of this one, it works well I think :
<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?3sa4ojuru3m66ol" target="_blank">http://www.mediafire.com/?3sa4ojuru3m66ol</a>
Something I find a bit weird in the lerk flight is the gravity, at the end of the video I jump off in crevice but I feel like I should get much more speed out of it, I don't know.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The low gravity is because holding the Jump key simulates extending the Lerk's wings (to enable gliding). To drop down faster, you should flap downward to create thrust, or release Jump key to surrender to gravity. :)
Now it really feels like you're flying in water or on mars.