For regular games, I usually spend about 15 hours playing them and pay about $50 per game. I have put in over 200 hours into NS2, so by that math, NS2 is worth over $600 to me. crazy.
<!--quoteo(post=1913275:date=Mar 15 2012, 07:30 PM:name=bobthesob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bobthesob @ Mar 15 2012, 07:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913275"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i already said above fine do it on release. people that buy before the demo or trial will feel cheated they didnt get a chance to try before buy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Er, so why won't they feel like that if it's released now or on release day? I mean, they still didn't have a chance.
<!--quoteo(post=1913279:date=Mar 15 2012, 01:42 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Mar 15 2012, 01:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913279"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Er, so why won't they feel like that if it's released now or on release day? I mean, they still didn't have a chance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If people would be annoyed if they couldn't try before they bought if you released a demo after release day, why wouldn't the people who have bought already be annoyed if they released a demo today?
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=1913230:date=Mar 15 2012, 10:23 AM:name=zastels)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zastels @ Mar 15 2012, 10:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913230"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Playing a beta and properly giving feedback is work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LOL! quote of the week right here! whew. who knew work could be so much voluntary FUN!? i must be work a holic LOL i would have bought this guy a copy if he just asked nicely instead of all this other entitlement / drawn out excuse bullcrap
Because people who have bought already. Knowingly bought a beta not a released game. And idk if im oldschool or something but i expect a released game to be very polished. So if someone buys ns2 on release and the trial wasn't out. They find that they only get 30 fps. Then uwe puts out a demo there going to be a little unhappy.
@bobthesob I understand your point, but how is there any difference from releasing a free demo or weekend trial early when people have already bought to play the beta? It would be too late as it is. Saying that, I think there should be a weekend trial at some-point and before it goes gold (This would be planned around when most of the features are in and the game is stable enough [and no, not 'perfect' for being considered gold.]) Being on the front-page will only get them so far before tons of DLC and AAA or F2P titles bash it behind.
No matter what people are going to complain because they paid for something that's momentarily or permanently free later on (Hell, I did it for a bit with TF2 when I bought it two weeks before it went F2P.) It tends to happen, people forget the hours they put into a game and suddenly feel like it isn't worth what they originally paid. I've only recently bought NS2 (Since build 194,) and I think it was worth it over the time I've already spent and actually enjoyed... plus I like messing around with mapping.
Okay, this firestorm really needs to end. The notion of UWE reducing beta access to 2$ is rediculous, and the amount of insulting and emotionally-charged rhetoric being thrown back and forth is a disgrace to everyone. The question now is not which side is going to "win", it's which side is going to be big enough to walk away from this.
<!--quoteo(post=1913305:date=Mar 15 2012, 02:25 PM:name=NurEinMensch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NurEinMensch @ Mar 15 2012, 02:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913305"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Make your own game and show everyone how it's done.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You'd be surprised how little that tends to work :/
<!--quoteo(post=1913238:date=Mar 15 2012, 02:33 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Mar 15 2012, 02:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913238"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Show me your work and i will gift you a key! (if its awesome enough)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have my grey box nearly done, and I detailed some areas for fun but I've not unveiled anything. If you have one extra key I can give it to my friend who has offered to model props for me in maya. I'll pm you some shots tomorrow.
<!--quoteo(post=1913264:date=Mar 15 2012, 03:15 PM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Mar 15 2012, 03:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913264"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Zastels, if you are serious, learn Lua, get together a tangible idea for a mod, show a precursor effort, and you know what? You may just get your copy of the game.
But until you actually show something other than just empty words, why is anyone going to go out of their way to help you out?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Empty words. I've already gone out of my way to plan a map, build the layout, and host a meeting at my place to discuss art direction with a friend. I'll unveil when I'm ready. Right now all I'm asking for is an easier time with my own development.
If you're ambitious enough to build a full map with some new content, you'll probably want a little help. Find some help on ModDB, and try convincing the person to drop $35 bucks. I think Valve even realized you need to have free tools, because a barrier on the tools is a barrier on creativity. With TF2 free, the SDK essentially became free, and content production increased.
So $2 to get access to a beta for a few months isn't going to hurt anybody. Everyone will still have to purchase the game at full price.
<!--quoteo(post=1913381:date=Mar 15 2012, 03:54 PM:name=zastels)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zastels @ Mar 15 2012, 03:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913381"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Empty words. I've already gone out of my way to plan a map, build the layout, and host a meeting at my place to discuss art direction with a friend. I'll unveil when I'm ready. Right now all I'm asking for is an easier time with my own development.
If you're ambitious enough to build a full map with some new content, you'll probably want a little help. Find some help on ModDB, and try convincing the person to drop $35 bucks. I think Valve even realized you need to have free tools, because a barrier on the tools is a barrier on creativity. With TF2 free, the SDK essentially became free, and content production increased.
So $2 to get access to a beta for a few months isn't going to hurt anybody. Everyone will still have to purchase the game at full price.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1913384:date=Mar 15 2012, 05:56 PM:name=bobthesob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bobthesob @ Mar 15 2012, 05:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913384"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"The notion of UWE reducing beta access to 2$ is rediculous"
Yes we must pay $35 to uwe so we can help test there game your logic is flawless.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ya and people pay full retail price in a preorder to gain early beta access. Looks at Guild Wars 2! Pre-order, get a head start.
What is so bad with getting a couple thousand people to donate 2 bucks to gain access to the beta? Not only that, you may spark some creativity and get people using the tools. It is in UWE best interest to have people using their tools.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
edited March 2012
Right, it's clear this is devolving into a flamewar quite quickly. <a href="http://youtu.be/_i9Fa2UrDAk" target="_blank">Cut it out.</a>
No, offering beta access for $2 would be unworkable for any number of reasons. The game is not in a finished state, which would actually do more harm than good to the reputation with an even more widespread Beta-base. If someone is developing a mod for this, purchasing a pre-order copy would seem to be a basic requirement for that kind of planned time investment and contribution to the community.
Bob, take a look at most Steam sales. Generally a new-release game comes up for a -10% pre-order discount at most for a week or two before release (aside from headliner games which can preorder for a month or two ahead of time). A free weekend is usually offered between two weeks and a month (or longer) <b>after</b> release for many titles, but NONE have done a release-day free weekend. Similar, most games do NOT offer a demo until one or two weeks after that free-weekend period. Also allow me to remind you that 'be polite' is one of the basic tenets of these forums. Kindly bear that in mind in the future.
If you want to play, buy a pre-order. Refunds are being granted on a case-by-case basis, but it is NOT meant as a 'try it out, get bored, get money back' measure.
<!--quoteo(post=1913404:date=Mar 15 2012, 04:19 PM:name=Talesin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talesin @ Mar 15 2012, 04:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913404"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Right, it's clear this is devolving into a flamewar quite quickly. <a href="http://youtu.be/_i9Fa2UrDAk" target="_blank">Cut it out.</a>
No, offering beta access for $2 would be unworkable for any number of reasons. The game is not in a finished state, which would actually do more harm than good to the reputation with an even more widespread Beta-base. If someone is developing a mod for this, purchasing a pre-order copy would seem to be a basic requirement for that kind of planned time investment and contribution to the community.
Bob, take a look at most Steam sales. Generally a new-release game comes up for a -10% pre-order discount at most for a week or two before release (aside from headliner games which can preorder for a month or two ahead of time). A free weekend is usually offered between two weeks and a month (or longer) <b>after</b> release for many titles, but NONE have done a release-day free weekend. Similar, most games do NOT offer a demo until one or two weeks after that free-weekend period. Also allow me to remind you that 'be polite' is one of the basic tenets of these forums. Kindly bear that in mind in the future.
If you want to play, buy a pre-order. Refunds are being granted on a case-by-case basis, but it is NOT meant as a 'try it out, get bored, get money back' measure.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about you do your research before trying to troll and failing at it.. Tones of games put out demos before release definitely more then after.
<!--quoteo(post=1913404:date=Mar 15 2012, 11:19 PM:name=Talesin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talesin @ Mar 15 2012, 11:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913404"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Right, it's clear this is devolving into a flamewar quite quickly. <a href="http://youtu.be/_i9Fa2UrDAk" target="_blank">Cut it out.</a>
No, offering beta access for $2 would be unworkable for any number of reasons. The game is not in a finished state, which would actually do more harm than good to the reputation with an even more widespread Beta-base. If someone is developing a mod for this, purchasing a pre-order copy would seem to be a basic requirement for that kind of planned time investment and contribution to the community.
Bob, take a look at most Steam sales. Generally a new-release game comes up for a -10% pre-order discount at most for a week or two before release (aside from headliner games which can preorder for a month or two ahead of time). A free weekend is usually offered between two weeks and a month (or longer) <b>after</b> release for many titles, but NONE have done a release-day free weekend. Similar, most games do NOT offer a demo until one or two weeks after that free-weekend period. Also allow me to remind you that 'be polite' is one of the basic tenets of these forums. Kindly bear that in mind in the future.
If you want to play, buy a pre-order. Refunds are being granted on a case-by-case basis, but it is NOT meant as a 'try it out, get bored, get money back' measure.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
Yes, I'd originally locked it, then thought that discussion might be able to continue with those statements/warnings in place and un-locked it again. Thank you, Bob, for proving me wrong.
Comments
Er, so why won't they feel like that if it's released now or on release day? I mean, they still didn't have a chance.
what?
If people would be annoyed if they couldn't try before they bought if you released a demo after release day, why wouldn't the people who have bought already be annoyed if they released a demo today?
LOL! quote of the week right here!
whew. who knew work could be so much voluntary FUN!? i must be work a holic
LOL i would have bought this guy a copy if he just asked nicely instead of all this other entitlement / drawn out excuse bullcrap
No matter what people are going to complain because they paid for something that's momentarily or permanently free later on (Hell, I did it for a bit with TF2 when I bought it two weeks before it went F2P.) It tends to happen, people forget the hours they put into a game and suddenly feel like it isn't worth what they originally paid. I've only recently bought NS2 (Since build 194,) and I think it was worth it over the time I've already spent and actually enjoyed... plus I like messing around with mapping.
<!--quoteo(post=1913305:date=Mar 15 2012, 02:25 PM:name=NurEinMensch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NurEinMensch @ Mar 15 2012, 02:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913305"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Make your own game and show everyone how it's done.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You'd be surprised how little that tends to work :/
I have my grey box nearly done, and I detailed some areas for fun but I've not unveiled anything. If you have one extra key I can give it to my friend who has offered to model props for me in maya. I'll pm you some shots tomorrow.
But until you actually show something other than just empty words, why is anyone going to go out of their way to help you out?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Empty words. I've already gone out of my way to plan a map, build the layout, and host a meeting at my place to discuss art direction with a friend. I'll unveil when I'm ready. Right now all I'm asking for is an easier time with my own development.
If you're ambitious enough to build a full map with some new content, you'll probably want a little help. Find some help on ModDB, and try convincing the person to drop $35 bucks. I think Valve even realized you need to have free tools, because a barrier on the tools is a barrier on creativity. With TF2 free, the SDK essentially became free, and content production increased.
So $2 to get access to a beta for a few months isn't going to hurt anybody. Everyone will still have to purchase the game at full price.
Yes we must pay $35 to uwe so we can help test there game your logic is flawless.
If you're ambitious enough to build a full map with some new content, you'll probably want a little help. Find some help on ModDB, and try convincing the person to drop $35 bucks. I think Valve even realized you need to have free tools, because a barrier on the tools is a barrier on creativity. With TF2 free, the SDK essentially became free, and content production increased.
So $2 to get access to a beta for a few months isn't going to hurt anybody. Everyone will still have to purchase the game at full price.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
dude stick with valve trust me
Yes we must pay $35 to uwe so we can help test there game your logic is flawless.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ya and people pay full retail price in a preorder to gain early beta access. Looks at Guild Wars 2! Pre-order, get a head start.
What is so bad with getting a couple thousand people to donate 2 bucks to gain access to the beta? Not only that, you may spark some creativity and get people using the tools. It is in UWE best interest to have people using their tools.
No, offering beta access for $2 would be unworkable for any number of reasons. The game is not in a finished state, which would actually do more harm than good to the reputation with an even more widespread Beta-base. If someone is developing a mod for this, purchasing a pre-order copy would seem to be a basic requirement for that kind of planned time investment and contribution to the community.
Bob, take a look at most Steam sales. Generally a new-release game comes up for a -10% pre-order discount at most for a week or two before release (aside from headliner games which can preorder for a month or two ahead of time). A free weekend is usually offered between two weeks and a month (or longer) <b>after</b> release for many titles, but NONE have done a release-day free weekend. Similar, most games do NOT offer a demo until one or two weeks after that free-weekend period. Also allow me to remind you that 'be polite' is one of the basic tenets of these forums. Kindly bear that in mind in the future.
If you want to play, buy a pre-order. Refunds are being granted on a case-by-case basis, but it is NOT meant as a 'try it out, get bored, get money back' measure.
No, offering beta access for $2 would be unworkable for any number of reasons. The game is not in a finished state, which would actually do more harm than good to the reputation with an even more widespread Beta-base. If someone is developing a mod for this, purchasing a pre-order copy would seem to be a basic requirement for that kind of planned time investment and contribution to the community.
Bob, take a look at most Steam sales. Generally a new-release game comes up for a -10% pre-order discount at most for a week or two before release (aside from headliner games which can preorder for a month or two ahead of time). A free weekend is usually offered between two weeks and a month (or longer) <b>after</b> release for many titles, but NONE have done a release-day free weekend. Similar, most games do NOT offer a demo until one or two weeks after that free-weekend period. Also allow me to remind you that 'be polite' is one of the basic tenets of these forums. Kindly bear that in mind in the future.
If you want to play, buy a pre-order. Refunds are being granted on a case-by-case basis, but it is NOT meant as a 'try it out, get bored, get money back' measure.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about you do your research before trying to troll and failing at it.. Tones of games put out demos before release definitely more then after.
No, offering beta access for $2 would be unworkable for any number of reasons. The game is not in a finished state, which would actually do more harm than good to the reputation with an even more widespread Beta-base. If someone is developing a mod for this, purchasing a pre-order copy would seem to be a basic requirement for that kind of planned time investment and contribution to the community.
Bob, take a look at most Steam sales. Generally a new-release game comes up for a -10% pre-order discount at most for a week or two before release (aside from headliner games which can preorder for a month or two ahead of time). A free weekend is usually offered between two weeks and a month (or longer) <b>after</b> release for many titles, but NONE have done a release-day free weekend. Similar, most games do NOT offer a demo until one or two weeks after that free-weekend period. Also allow me to remind you that 'be polite' is one of the basic tenets of these forums. Kindly bear that in mind in the future.
If you want to play, buy a pre-order. Refunds are being granted on a case-by-case basis, but it is NOT meant as a 'try it out, get bored, get money back' measure.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Closing, Talesin said everything I was about to.
Thank you, Bob, for proving me wrong.