Catalyze on hives?

AnticeptAnticept Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58875Members, Constellation
edited March 2012 in Ideas and Suggestions
I like catalyze. It's a great power imo. However after playing a few games, it's clear to me it should NOT be allowed to be used on hives. I played both as marine and as alien comm for a few rounds. Managed to pull off one marine win (alien comm bugged), but all others it was marines lose because of how quickly fades roll out. I tried three different strategies: phase blitz, relocates, and upgrade craze. No strategy that I know of is working against a half decent alien comm with a decent team. By the time you notice a hive is going up, it is complete before you get there.

Mineshaft has less than 5 minute fades, and onos at 12 minutes.

tl;dr no catalyze on hives

EDIT:

Read on with topic. Might be fine as we figure out the mechanics a little more.
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Comments

  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    edited March 2012
    In 199 Mineshaft had 3 hives at 7.5mins and onos very shortly after, so you are saying it now takes a lot longer even with catalize? I am confused :P
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  • AnticeptAnticept Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58875Members, Constellation
    edited March 2012
    I've never seen a game go THAT fast. What i mean though, is pound for pound, marine for alien, catalyzing hives gives a tad too strong of an edge.1

    Either that, or fades really are OP.

    EDIT

    I suspect the fades came out even sooner than that to be honest. Someone just said "5 minute fades" but thinking back, I had just finished placing two phase gates on a phase rush (obs > phase tech > 2 gates, only other stuff that was spent on was extractors) when we got rolled by a bunch of fades.
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  • RyneRyne Join Date: 2012-02-25 Member: 147408Members, NS2 Map Tester
    <!--quoteo(post=1913563:date=Mar 15 2012, 06:07 PM:name=Anticept)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Anticept @ Mar 15 2012, 06:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913563"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've never seen a game go THAT fast. What i mean though, is pound for pound, marine for alien, catalyzing hives gives a tad too strong of an edge.1

    Either that, or fades really are OP.

    EDIT

    I suspect the fades came out even sooner than that to be honest. Someone just said "5 minute fades" but thinking back, I had just finished placing two phase gates on a phase rush (obs > phase tech > 2 gates, only other stuff that was spent on was extractors) when we got rolled by a bunch of fades.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Try arcs. Hard to stop without viable bile bomb.
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  • AnticeptAnticept Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58875Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1913634:date=Mar 15 2012, 10:31 PM:name=Ryne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ryne @ Mar 15 2012, 10:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913634"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Try arcs. Hard to stop without viable bile bomb.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Can certainly give it a try. Perhaps with the sprinting marines, phase gates won't be as necessary.
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  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    Just finished a load more games and the hive building has been slowed down drastically, but with catalize I still can't get 3 hives quicker than before. Takes about the same time, although I haven't tried catalizing the RTS first, thats a point :)

    Mineshaft is no longer an alien dominated map. The new movement speeds of the marine has taken away all the alien movement advantage, and then some. After all, it's only skulks who move fast.

    The problem with mineshaft is there is an abundance of res. This makes it a very fast map for teching. Also, before today I had only lost twice as comm on mineshaft, I've lost more than that already since b200 came out. Last game we had 3 hives at 8.5 mins, 2 hives at 15 mins and 1 hive 20mins.

    I don't get why we lose in 200 with the same 3 hives scenario we had in 199, it should not be possible, but in all games we are unable to stop the bloody arcs :(
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  • RyneRyne Join Date: 2012-02-25 Member: 147408Members, NS2 Map Tester
    <!--quoteo(post=1913649:date=Mar 15 2012, 07:56 PM:name=Soul_Rider)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soul_Rider @ Mar 15 2012, 07:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913649"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't get why we lose in 200 with the same 3 hives scenario we had in 199, it should not be possible, but in all games we are unable to stop the bloody arcs :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Due to the bile bomb reduction/switch to lerk, which I believe you were defending in another post.
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  • AnticeptAnticept Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58875Members, Constellation
    edited March 2012
    Soul, I think it's because of central. With sprinting marines, central is now defendable.

    I also do believe that with the skulk change, that's probably a big factor too. I don't mind speedy skulks, but in doing so, stamina needs to be a bigger factor in their ability to move.

    Basically, let skulks close the gap quickly, but high speed bhopping should be draining on their stamina so that they can't cover huge swaths of ground across half the map in record time.
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  • ArkantiArkanti pub baddie Join Date: 2011-07-22 Member: 111781Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    I think a big part of the issue is with how much energy Catalyze costs, you can pretty much perma Catalyse everything you need to without any down time off a single hive, let alone 2 or more. It should be something that is reserved and used sparingly, perhaps at the frequency of beacons.

    With Bilebomb moved to the Lerk, commander given better and cheaper cysts AND allowing the commander to speed up the building process it has delegated the Gorge into a pure healer for this patch. I understand that the Goo Wall and something else are coming for the Gorge, but for now their usefulness is severely limited.



    Are there plans to add more hive abilities?
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