<!--quoteo(post=1913548:date=Mar 15 2012, 07:53 PM:name=LV426-Colonist)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LV426-Colonist @ Mar 15 2012, 07:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913548"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It doesn't make sense to change a game that worked (NS1).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Clearly the very thought of improvement is TOTALLY ABSURD!!! How can we improve over the flawless God crafted gem that was NS1?!?! ABSURRRD I SAY!!! Seriously though is it just me or is the skulk crap now without the walljump?
<!--quoteo(post=1913681:date=Mar 15 2012, 07:43 PM:name=RockyMarc)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RockyMarc @ Mar 15 2012, 07:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913681"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hmm but then again you could see the bile bomb as a `defensive` weapon too if you look at the spit like that. Gorge setting up defences in the hive, rambo marine comes along, starts building phase gate, no skulks around to help, bile!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The most apt example of it is arc rushes. They are very hard to stop now in B200, where before you used gorges to bile bomb them down while other lifeforms attacked the guarding marines.
I understand it is early in the B200 lifecycle, but people historically (in my experience) do not play lerk much and still do not. The first few rounds I played today, lots of people lerked due to novelty, but once that wore off they were back to skulk straight to fade.
I can only imagine how unsatisfying it would be to put several years and an enormous amount of effort into making the same game, with a few extra features and a new engine, that you'd made a decade before.
<!--quoteo(post=1913694:date=Mar 15 2012, 09:48 PM:name=Codeine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codeine @ Mar 15 2012, 09:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913694"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->why cant it be like NS1 with a few extra features?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Something to do with a new game and how veterans should adapt much like veterans have stated how new players should adapt to NS1 and NS2. Change is somewhat good, it just takes time. I'd rather have experiments that lead to new and fun gameplay over the same formula reused.
I still don't see the huge problem with skulks, although they feel more heavy it seems you can really get some speed on them with hopping. My real gripe is the poor performance that seems to have increased and bile bomb being taken away from Gorge. I just hope these new buildings aren't preexisting ones like mini-whips and healers on walls!
<!--quoteo(post=1913694:date=Mar 15 2012, 11:48 PM:name=Codeine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codeine @ Mar 15 2012, 11:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913694"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->why cant it be like NS1 with a few extra features?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because people think they need to reinvent the wheel and make it square. See also: Starcraft 2. People get caught up in making 'a new game' and forget the fundamentals that made the first one good, while fanboys egg them on with idiotic one-liners like "It's not NS1 so learn to adapt!"
The funny thing is it's possible to do it and do it well, but you can't remove and add features every week while new players are joining the game and all they can tell is it doesn't run very well for them.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1913694:date=Mar 15 2012, 07:48 PM:name=Codeine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codeine @ Mar 15 2012, 07:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913694"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->why cant it be like NS1 with a few extra features?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Rest assured, someone will make a NS1 mod in spark.
Also, while I agree NS1 was a great game, it had serious flaws that undermined gameplay. All of us who played NS1 simply accepted those flaws because under certain conditions we could still have some amazing matches.
<!--quoteo(post=1913716:date=Mar 15 2012, 11:06 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Mar 15 2012, 11:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913716"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Because people think they need to reinvent the wheel and make it square. See also: Starcraft 2. People get caught up in making 'a new game' and forget the fundamentals that made the first one good, while fanboys egg them on with idiotic one-liners like "It's not NS1 so learn to adapt!"
The funny thing is it's possible to do it and do it well, but you can't remove and add features every week while new players are joining the game and all they can tell is it doesn't run very well for them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Like it or not most of us here have already played NS1 to death and are eager for some changes, however much we argue about the specifics. And there were limitations in that game that don't apply now, along with design flaws we all simply learned to cope with. It would be silly for them not to revisit all those assumptions when they have a brand new game on a custom engine. Once the game is released you don't get to do this sort of experimentation anymore.
ÒŗăNģёJoin Date: 2012-02-09Member: 144437Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1913673:date=Mar 15 2012, 08:36 PM:name=SabaHell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SabaHell @ Mar 15 2012, 08:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913673"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's a purely support class and bile bomb is an offensive attack. Summary: Gorge is purely defensive. Bile Bomb is not.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The best defense is a good offense, right? Bile was INCREDIBLY useful on gorge, hanging back healing things and oh no here come marines with a phase and armory right outside base, good thing I have bile to DEFEND....
This mentality of each class has to fit a specific role is so BLEH..
Flayra you need to stop being influenced by all these other games which try and shoe box player roles and let NS be what NS is which is a unique and innovative game..
The gorge used to be such an awesome unique class something you would never find in any other game, builder/commander/healer/base killer... wow what a class and to boot really cute and fun...
Now he is just another generic "engineer" class..
I'm starting to feel you guys are loosing touch with what made NS1 so successful to begin with..
I feel you guys need to get back to roots and not look at other games so much...
<!--quoteo(post=1913724:date=Mar 16 2012, 12:17 AM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Mar 16 2012, 12:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913724"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Like it or not most of us here have already played NS1 to death and are eager for some changes, however much we argue about the specifics. And there were limitations in that game that don't apply now, along with design flaws we all simply learned to cope with. It would be silly for them not to revisit all those assumptions when they have a brand new game on a custom engine. Once the game is released you don't get to do this sort of experimentation anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the core idea here is correct, but when do we stop this 'experimentation' if the game is supposed to be released this coming summer?
a lot of people are phrasing their concern over the gorge/lerk change as "why fix what wasn't broken?" - clearly the people who play this game and put money into it think those lifeforms' roles were fine before this patch. are they wrong? does it matter?
<!--quoteo(post=1913781:date=Mar 15 2012, 10:38 PM:name=Arkanti)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arkanti @ Mar 15 2012, 10:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913781"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hey, guys; how about everyone just discusses the patch like adults instead of the terrible string of ad hominem attacks I'm seeing here.
Also, play the patch for at least a day before declaring that everything about it has insulted you in some fashion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1913777:date=Mar 15 2012, 09:35 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Mar 15 2012, 09:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913777"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->a lot of people are phrasing their concern over the gorge/lerk change as "why fix what wasn't broken?" - clearly the people who play this game and put money into it think those lifeforms' roles were fine before this patch. are they wrong? does it matter?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nobody ever said it was broken, they said they wanted to test something else. Some of the people who play the game and put money into it are interested in seeing how this change works out, given a few builds. The problem with complaints is that they're loud, whereas people don't tend to post when they're okay with something.
rhombusLerk QueenJoin Date: 2011-06-23Member: 106055Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1913731:date=Mar 16 2012, 12:27 AM:name=ÒŗăNģё)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ÒŗăNģё @ Mar 16 2012, 12:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913731"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The best defense is a good offense, right? Bile was INCREDIBLY useful on gorge, hanging back healing things and oh no here come marines with a phase and armory right outside base, good thing I have bile to DEFEND....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With the Lerk's mobility this shouldn't ever be an issue. If you can't communicate to your Lerks that a phase is going up, then it deserves to go up. It's emphasizing more on the team work aspect.
ArgathorJoin Date: 2011-07-18Member: 110942Members, Squad Five Blue
The complaints about changing the Gorge are very important. They arise from how brilliant the gorge was to play before, it was almost spot on.
Not only was it fun but you were useful whatever the situation. The gorge was powerful, engaging, useful and fun. The best part was, that offensively you were completely useless without the aid of your team (solo, you mostly acted as a distraction, seeking to divide up the marines). This was all-in-all a fantastic class and one experienced and skilled people could enjoy playing.
The problem here is, should it be changed at all? The Gorge was fantastic and we should fight to keep classes like that when they come into being, it is unlikely UWE can ever make the Gorge lifeform that good again. So unless there is a gamebreaking reason the Gorge needed to be changed (none have been raised yet) there is a clear arguement for keeping it.
<b>Take Home Message: The Gorge lifeform was so RIGHT, that we should fight to keep it.</b>
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
What i don't get ( appart from the fact that bilebomb does way too little damage now) is that before that patch, everybody was complaining how boring/bad the gorge was. Now suddenly he was perfect before. I'm not saying that the current situation is perfect, i'm just confused by the sudden change of mind of everybody.
<!--quoteo(post=1913847:date=Mar 16 2012, 11:58 PM:name=Asraniel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Asraniel @ Mar 16 2012, 11:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913847"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What i don't get ( appart from the fact that bilebomb does way too little damage now) is that before that patch, everybody was complaining how boring/bad the gorge was. Now suddenly he was perfect before. I'm not saying that the current situation is perfect, i'm just confused by the sudden change of mind of everybody.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, i personally was not part of the everybody. He wasn't perfect before, but removing bilebomb was a bit odd of a decision. imo the reason why gorge needs bilebomb back has nothing to do with whether or not lerk has bilebomb.
People want the gorge to do alot of things. They want ns1 style gorge back and to be able to build lots of structures. Some people want more combat gorge. Some people want new and interesting things in a totally different direction such as goowall. I dont think you can lump everyone together. And then you have to factor in the people who are just ignorant about how to play gorge.
<!--quoteo(post=1913847:date=Mar 16 2012, 02:58 PM:name=Asraniel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Asraniel @ Mar 16 2012, 02:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913847"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What i don't get ( appart from the fact that bilebomb does way too little damage now) is that before that patch, everybody was complaining how boring/bad the gorge was. Now suddenly he was perfect before. I'm not saying that the current situation is perfect, i'm just confused by the sudden change of mind of everybody.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you'll find its more a case of people thinking the gorge was weak before, and the confounding notion of making it even weaker.
Honestly, bilebomb made sense on a gorge. Here was the siege weapon of the aliens available midgame on the slowest lifeform. It was devastating and forced marines to address it, but the gorge was also relatively weak. You can't just turn around and run away as a gorge, unless you have infestation spread to the edge of the marine structures.
Bilebomb (the anti building weapon) doesn't make sense on the fast harass unit (lerk).
<!--quoteo(post=1913851:date=Mar 16 2012, 09:11 AM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Mar 16 2012, 09:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913851"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Honestly, bilebomb made sense on a gorge. Here was the siege weapon of the aliens available midgame on the slowest lifeform. It was devastating and forced marines to address it, but the gorge was also relatively weak. You can't just turn around and run away as a gorge, unless you have infestation spread to the edge of the marine structures.
Bilebomb (the anti building weapon) doesn't make sense on the fast harass unit (lerk).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree Its way to easy for lerks to force marine to stay in base or harash marine structures. I'm sure this will be adjusted my nerfing bilebomb to mehhh state(could not find another word for it :S). So they will work but nothing special.
<!--quoteo(post=1913851:date=Mar 16 2012, 01:11 PM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Mar 16 2012, 01:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913851"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Honestly, bilebomb made sense on a gorge. Here was the siege weapon of the aliens available midgame on the slowest lifeform. It was devastating and forced marines to address it, but the gorge was also relatively weak. You can't just turn around and run away as a gorge, unless you have infestation spread to the edge of the marine structures.
Bilebomb (the anti building weapon) doesn't make sense on the fast harass unit (lerk).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wat ? erm lets be honest with the flight mechanics that allow Lerks to 'Crop Dust' spores over marine bases Bile bomb makes 100% perfect sense to be used as actual bombs from aircraft are, maybe the bile bombs arc should be changed to a direct drop as the lerk streaks over the base, Im not sure how it could be done but I would love to see a ground target marker showing where the bombs will land adjusting for the lerks current hight and velocity.
<!--quoteo(post=1913863:date=Mar 16 2012, 03:49 PM:name=Saj)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Saj @ Mar 16 2012, 03:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913863"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wat ? erm lets be honest with the flight mechanics that allow Lerks to 'Crop Dust' spores over marine bases Bile bomb makes 100% perfect sense to be used as actual bombs from aircraft are, maybe the bile bombs arc should be changed to a direct drop as the lerk streaks over the base, Im not sure how it could be done but I would love to see a ground target marker showing where the bombs will land adjusting for the lerks current hight and velocity.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He meant gameplay sense, not real life (with aliens?) sense.
who the hell is talking about RL, im tlaking about NS2 since the flight model is already there why not mimic an aircraft bombing target/drop system to make sure the lerk can attack a base and keep itself mobile.
<!--quoteo(post=1913865:date=Mar 16 2012, 09:57 AM:name=Saj)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Saj @ Mar 16 2012, 09:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913865"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->who the hell is talking about RL, im tlaking about NS2 since the flight model is already there why not mimic an aircraft bombing target/drop system to make sure the lerk can attack a base and keep itself mobile.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My point is that it does not make sense to have the fastest unit in the game as the siege weapon // building destroyer.
I also dont like the attitude of some people who think everything should stay like in NS1. It's a BETA, new things will tryed out and be tested and if it doesnt work out it still can be changed back.
For me, I'm still a bit uncertain about the lerk role. Spikes encourage to stay far away to snipe marines, while spores and bile-bomb force you to get in close range. Also the gorge needs more love and should not just be restricted to a passive support-role imo. For example I would like to see him more often as a semi-tank to initiate an ambush on marines, for which he need some more utility.
ArgathorJoin Date: 2011-07-18Member: 110942Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1913847:date=Mar 16 2012, 12:58 PM:name=Asraniel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Asraniel @ Mar 16 2012, 12:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913847"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What i don't get ( appart from the fact that bilebomb does way too little damage now) is that before that patch, everybody was complaining how boring/bad the gorge was. Now suddenly he was perfect before. I'm not saying that the current situation is perfect, i'm just confused by the sudden change of mind of everybody.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Who is everybody? No real gathers/clan matches were played as the last patch was so horribly bad (looks like we are heading for the same again this patch). In most of the public games I played as aliens, I constantly had marines complaining the Gorge was overpowered or I was abusing OP mechanics (as I killed their bases solo). Hardly the consensus that Gorges were bad.
Such sweeping generalisations don't do you, or anyone else much good.
You could easily argue that in b199 Gorges had a major contribution to Alien wins (more so than other lifeforms). Not only are fades/onos partly reliant on them, but they fortify areas, destroy marine resources, support alien pushes, destroy bases solo and help to spread map control. In my games as aliens I ended most of them as Gorge by either: a) Destroying Marine Resources (killing structures in lightning raids that the marine team could not afford to replace over time, ending their game). b) Destorying the Marine Bases (taking out important structures: obs, ips, comm chair, arms lab, etc. so that marines cannot recover).
In what way does it make no sense ? If a lerk has done his spores pass and has no safe sniping spot why not allow him to do what he does best and fly at high speed dropping bombs on marine structures ?
<!--quoteo(post=1913871:date=Mar 16 2012, 10:10 AM:name=Saj)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Saj @ Mar 16 2012, 10:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913871"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In what way does it make no sense ? If a lerk has done his spores pass and has no safe sniping spot why not allow him to do what he does best and fly at high speed dropping bombs on marine structures ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because it's a siege/anti building weapon on the fastest alien in the game. Lerks will also win most every 1v1 against a marine.
It totally throws out of whack the hit/run harass on RTs and base. In a 6v6, if you leave 1 marine to guard base or defend near RTs, then a lerk basically counters him and destroys buildings super fast.
Putting the strongest anti-building weapon on the fastest alien just doesn't make much sense. It's hard to imagine bilebomb being both an effective siege weapon and a balanced harass weapon, but I presume that future changes may mitigate this.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In what way does it make no sense ? If a lerk has done his spores pass and has no safe sniping spot why not allow him to do what he does best and fly at high speed dropping bombs on marine structures ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh, the Bile-Bomb dropping is fine by me (so far, have only played a few times with new build, didn't work for me so well though). It's more that 1. You have to be stationary to snipe effectively, which feels unnatural as alien for me because it can be very risky and 2. that I often wish for some form of bite, when I find myself in a close-combat situation after diving in for spores/bile-bomb.
Comments
Clearly the very thought of improvement is TOTALLY ABSURD!!! How can we improve over the flawless God crafted gem that was NS1?!?! ABSURRRD I SAY!!! Seriously though is it just me or is the skulk crap now without the walljump?
Gorge setting up defences in the hive, rambo marine comes along, starts building phase gate, no skulks around to help, bile!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The most apt example of it is arc rushes. They are very hard to stop now in B200, where before you used gorges to bile bomb them down while other lifeforms attacked the guarding marines.
I understand it is early in the B200 lifecycle, but people historically (in my experience) do not play lerk much and still do not. The first few rounds I played today, lots of people lerked due to novelty, but once that wore off they were back to skulk straight to fade.
Something to do with a new game and how veterans should adapt much like veterans have stated how new players should adapt to NS1 and NS2. Change is somewhat good, it just takes time. I'd rather have experiments that lead to new and fun gameplay over the same formula reused.
I still don't see the huge problem with skulks, although they feel more heavy it seems you can really get some speed on them with hopping. My real gripe is the poor performance that seems to have increased and bile bomb being taken away from Gorge. I just hope these new buildings aren't preexisting ones like mini-whips and healers on walls!
Because people think they need to reinvent the wheel and make it square. See also: Starcraft 2. People get caught up in making 'a new game' and forget the fundamentals that made the first one good, while fanboys egg them on with idiotic one-liners like "It's not NS1 so learn to adapt!"
The funny thing is it's possible to do it and do it well, but you can't remove and add features every week while new players are joining the game and all they can tell is it doesn't run very well for them.
Rest assured, someone will make a NS1 mod in spark.
Also, while I agree NS1 was a great game, it had serious flaws that undermined gameplay. All of us who played NS1 simply accepted those flaws because under certain conditions we could still have some amazing matches.
The funny thing is it's possible to do it and do it well, but you can't remove and add features every week while new players are joining the game and all they can tell is it doesn't run very well for them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like it or not most of us here have already played NS1 to death and are eager for some changes, however much we argue about the specifics. And there were limitations in that game that don't apply now, along with design flaws we all simply learned to cope with. It would be silly for them not to revisit all those assumptions when they have a brand new game on a custom engine. Once the game is released you don't get to do this sort of experimentation anymore.
Summary: Gorge is purely defensive. Bile Bomb is not.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The best defense is a good offense, right?
Bile was INCREDIBLY useful on gorge, hanging back healing things and oh no here come marines with a phase and armory right outside base, good thing I have bile to DEFEND....
Flayra you need to stop being influenced by all these other games which try and shoe box player roles and let NS be what NS is which is a unique and innovative game..
The gorge used to be such an awesome unique class something you would never find in any other game, builder/commander/healer/base killer... wow what a class and to boot really cute and fun...
Now he is just another generic "engineer" class..
I'm starting to feel you guys are loosing touch with what made NS1 so successful to begin with..
I feel you guys need to get back to roots and not look at other games so much...
the core idea here is correct, but when do we stop this 'experimentation' if the game is supposed to be released this coming summer?
a lot of people are phrasing their concern over the gorge/lerk change as "why fix what wasn't broken?" - clearly the people who play this game and put money into it think those lifeforms' roles were fine before this patch. are they wrong? does it matter?
Also, play the patch for at least a day before declaring that everything about it has insulted you in some fashion.
Also, play the patch for at least a day before declaring that everything about it has insulted you in some fashion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
agreed
Nobody ever said it was broken, they said they wanted to test something else. Some of the people who play the game and put money into it are interested in seeing how this change works out, given a few builds. The problem with complaints is that they're loud, whereas people don't tend to post when they're okay with something.
Bile was INCREDIBLY useful on gorge, hanging back healing things and oh no here come marines with a phase and armory right outside base, good thing I have bile to DEFEND....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With the Lerk's mobility this shouldn't ever be an issue. If you can't communicate to your Lerks that a phase is going up, then it deserves to go up. It's emphasizing more on the team work aspect.
Not only was it fun but you were useful whatever the situation. The gorge was powerful, engaging, useful and fun. The best part was, that offensively you were completely useless without the aid of your team (solo, you mostly acted as a distraction, seeking to divide up the marines). This was all-in-all a fantastic class and one experienced and skilled people could enjoy playing.
The problem here is, should it be changed at all? The Gorge was fantastic and we should fight to keep classes like that when they come into being, it is unlikely UWE can ever make the Gorge lifeform that good again. So unless there is a gamebreaking reason the Gorge needed to be changed (none have been raised yet) there is a clear arguement for keeping it.
<b>Take Home Message: The Gorge lifeform was so RIGHT, that we should fight to keep it.</b>
Now suddenly he was perfect before.
I'm not saying that the current situation is perfect, i'm just confused by the sudden change of mind of everybody.
Now suddenly he was perfect before.
I'm not saying that the current situation is perfect, i'm just confused by the sudden change of mind of everybody.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, i personally was not part of the everybody. He wasn't perfect before, but removing bilebomb was a bit odd of a decision. imo the reason why gorge needs bilebomb back has nothing to do with whether or not lerk has bilebomb.
People want the gorge to do alot of things. They want ns1 style gorge back and to be able to build lots of structures. Some people want more combat gorge. Some people want new and interesting things in a totally different direction such as goowall. I dont think you can lump everyone together. And then you have to factor in the people who are just ignorant about how to play gorge.
Now suddenly he was perfect before.
I'm not saying that the current situation is perfect, i'm just confused by the sudden change of mind of everybody.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you'll find its more a case of people thinking the gorge was weak before, and the confounding notion of making it even weaker.
Bilebomb (the anti building weapon) doesn't make sense on the fast harass unit (lerk).
Bilebomb (the anti building weapon) doesn't make sense on the fast harass unit (lerk).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree
Its way to easy for lerks to force marine to stay in base or harash marine structures. I'm sure this will be adjusted my nerfing bilebomb to mehhh state(could not find another word for it :S). So they will work but nothing special.
Bilebomb (the anti building weapon) doesn't make sense on the fast harass unit (lerk).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wat ? erm lets be honest with the flight mechanics that allow Lerks to 'Crop Dust' spores over marine bases Bile bomb makes 100% perfect sense to be used as actual bombs from aircraft are, maybe the bile bombs arc should be changed to a direct drop as the lerk streaks over the base, Im not sure how it could be done but I would love to see a ground target marker showing where the bombs will land adjusting for the lerks current hight and velocity.
He meant gameplay sense, not real life (with aliens?) sense.
My point is that it does not make sense to have the fastest unit in the game as the siege weapon // building destroyer.
For me, I'm still a bit uncertain about the lerk role. Spikes encourage to stay far away to snipe marines, while spores and bile-bomb force you to get in close range. Also the gorge needs more love and should not just be restricted to a passive support-role imo. For example I would like to see him more often as a semi-tank to initiate an ambush on marines, for which he need some more utility.
Now suddenly he was perfect before.
I'm not saying that the current situation is perfect, i'm just confused by the sudden change of mind of everybody.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who is everybody? No real gathers/clan matches were played as the last patch was so horribly bad (looks like we are heading for the same again this patch). In most of the public games I played as aliens, I constantly had marines complaining the Gorge was overpowered or I was abusing OP mechanics (as I killed their bases solo). Hardly the consensus that Gorges were bad.
Such sweeping generalisations don't do you, or anyone else much good.
You could easily argue that in b199 Gorges had a major contribution to Alien wins (more so than other lifeforms). Not only are fades/onos partly reliant on them, but they fortify areas, destroy marine resources, support alien pushes, destroy bases solo and help to spread map control. In my games as aliens I ended most of them as Gorge by either:
a) Destroying Marine Resources (killing structures in lightning raids that the marine team could not afford to replace over time, ending their game).
b) Destorying the Marine Bases (taking out important structures: obs, ips, comm chair, arms lab, etc. so that marines cannot recover).
Because it's a siege/anti building weapon on the fastest alien in the game. Lerks will also win most every 1v1 against a marine.
It totally throws out of whack the hit/run harass on RTs and base. In a 6v6, if you leave 1 marine to guard base or defend near RTs, then a lerk basically counters him and destroys buildings super fast.
Putting the strongest anti-building weapon on the fastest alien just doesn't make much sense. It's hard to imagine bilebomb being both an effective siege weapon and a balanced harass weapon, but I presume that future changes may mitigate this.
Oh, the Bile-Bomb dropping is fine by me (so far, have only played a few times with new build, didn't work for me so well though). It's more that 1. You have to be stationary to snipe effectively, which feels unnatural as alien for me because it can be very risky and 2. that I often wish for some form of bite, when I find myself in a close-combat situation after diving in for spores/bile-bomb.