sorry Crypt but lerk bite was one of the things I hated about NS 3.0 it was truely out of plac eon the lerk imo and im very glad its gone. GORGEous I still dont get your complaint you cant be suggesting that a Lerk can win a 1v1 with a marine while Bile bombing ? because if so im gona set you to ignore as a retard.
<!--quoteo(post=1913889:date=Mar 16 2012, 10:36 AM:name=Saj)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Saj @ Mar 16 2012, 10:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913889"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->sorry Crypt but lerk bite was one of the things I hated about NS 3.0 it was truely out of plac eon the lerk imo and im very glad its gone. GORGEous I still dont get your complaint you cant be suggesting that a Lerk can win a 1v1 with a marine while Bile bombing ? because if so im gona set you to ignore as a retard.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uhh. Lerk wins a 1v1 with his spikes. He bile bombs until he sees a marine coming, then fights the marine, wins, and bile bombs again.
<!--quoteo(post=1913879:date=Mar 17 2012, 01:18 AM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Mar 17 2012, 01:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913879"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Putting the strongest anti-building weapon on the fastest alien just doesn't make much sense. It's hard to imagine bilebomb being both an effective siege weapon and a balanced harass weapon, but I presume that future changes may mitigate this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lerk Bilebomb is Bilebomb in name only at this point, it's an entirely different weapon. You can't make the direct comparison.
Lerks can be even more vulnerable than Gorges delivering their payload, so the risk/reward is there. Gorges could sit from afar and attack or evolve in cheesy places to bomb from, Lerks going in for strafing runs will need to expose themselves, thus requiring support from their team. I can see this working out ok. Lerks needed something to be doing mid-late game as the marine armour nullified the effectiveness of their -light- damage spikes.
<!--quoteo(post=1913869:date=Mar 17 2012, 01:07 AM:name=Argathor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Argathor @ Mar 17 2012, 01:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913869"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Who is everybody? No real gathers/clan matches were played as the last patch was so horribly bad (looks like we are heading for the same again this patch). In most of the public games I played as aliens, I constantly had marines complaining the Gorge was overpowered or I was abusing OP mechanics (as I killed their bases solo). Hardly the consensus that Gorges were bad.
Such sweeping generalisations don't do you, or anyone else much good.
You could easily argue that in b199 Gorges had a major contribution to Alien wins (more so than other lifeforms). Not only are fades/onos partly reliant on them, but they fortify areas, destroy marine resources, support alien pushes, destroy bases solo and help to spread map control. In my games as aliens I ended most of them as Gorge by either: a) Destroying Marine Resources (killing structures in lightning raids that the marine team could not afford to replace over time, ending their game). b) Destorying the Marine Bases (taking out important structures: obs, ips, comm chair, arms lab, etc. so that marines cannot recover).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From my experience the majority people on Gathers hated the implementation of the Gorge's bilebomb.
I know the answer! Devs should make a "WIN" button at the bottom of the screen! When you press it, your computer reboots!
Seriously...with these changes, you cant yell bloody murder day 1. Play the damn thing already. I even seen posts were people are saying "oh yeah thats a terrible change...I only watched a video though...havent played it" ....really???
If a community rants like this, whats the use of a Beta testing. You criticism is based on a few hours of play! ergo... not valid! Give yer CONSTRUCTIVE criticism after a few days, people might take you more serious.
<!--quoteo(post=1913889:date=Mar 16 2012, 09:36 AM:name=Saj)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Saj @ Mar 16 2012, 09:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913889"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->sorry Crypt but lerk bite was one of the things I hated about NS 3.0 it was truely out of plac eon the lerk imo and im very glad its gone.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yea, I see that bite is flawed in a lot of ways aswell. It's already fairly easy to die as a lerk and bite would only increase that chance. I still feel that staying behind the fight and sniping doesn't fit to lerks.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=1913863:date=Mar 16 2012, 05:49 AM:name=Saj)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Saj @ Mar 16 2012, 05:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913863"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->e, Im not sure how it could be done but I would love to see a ground target marker showing where the bombs will land adjusting for the lerks current hight and velocity.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->+1<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> !! feedback! good idea!
Because of all whining threads about aliens, maybe UWE should remove aliens. And marines play against helpless cats?
The game is not finished and yes, its imba right now, its after EVERY patch imba. Before 200 it was aliens who beat the sh*t out of marines, now marines did it...the also run faster then a skulk.
That depends on your preferred version of lerks. I *stopped* playing lerk for the most part when they went to lerkBite as their primary attack. "Oh boy, look at me, I'm a flying skulk whose primary role is gassing at range, dropping umbra or primal scream, and when i need to kill some yahoo waving a shotgun around I HAVE TO FLY STRAIGHT AT HIM." Seriously. The current version of the lerk needs some significant tweaking, but the basic idea (to quote the Beastie Boys, "doin' one-twenty plowin' over mail box-es") is probably my favorite part of the game.
Do I want it left as-is? No. Bilebomb needs (and is already getting) some tweaks. Spikes need a slight (10-20%) effectiveness tweak. And they either need to be cheaper or tougher (not both). But the current Lerk is ######' awesome, as far as I'm concerned, and the idea that there's still another ability to be added just makes me happy :D
I'm cool with bilebomb moving to Lerk, because by the sound of things 'combat-engineer' for Gorge sounds quite exciting.
2 new structures? Hell, more content. That is pretty cool!
This patch actually works really well on my laptop - only complaint about this patch is that ARC's have become... incredible. 2 firing together seem to take down a whole hive room in 2/3 shots.
<!--quoteo(post=1914232:date=Mar 17 2012, 01:18 AM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Mar 17 2012, 01:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914232"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Before 200 it was aliens who beat the sh*t out of marines, now marines did it...the also run faster then a skulk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What build are you playing where marines are winning?
<!--quoteo(post=1913911:date=Mar 16 2012, 03:31 PM:name=crypt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crypt @ Mar 16 2012, 03:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913911"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yea, I see that bite is flawed in a lot of ways aswell. It's already fairly easy to die as a lerk and bite would only increase that chance. I still feel that staying behind the fight and sniping doesn't fit to lerks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd say in some sense the lerk was actually a pretty smart setup. It combined a low risk easy to use spores and high risk skill intense bites, which then allowed players to be useful even without the do-or-die attitude that for example fades had.
Obviously the outcome wasn't anywhere near perfect and didn't seem to work very well in practise, but I very much like starting point from design viewpoint. If the learning curve really has to be as accessible as modern games seem to have it, the lerk design seems like a reasonable way to do it.
<!--quoteo(post=1914237:date=Mar 17 2012, 10:33 AM:name=Shrike3O)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shrike3O @ Mar 17 2012, 10:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914237"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What build are you playing where marines are winning?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> ... <a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?version=199&output=chart" target="_blank">http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/disp...mp;output=chart</a> 199 = Marine Wins: 900 (36.00%) Alien Wins: 1600 (64.00%)
<a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?version=200&output=chart" target="_blank">http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/disp...mp;output=chart</a> 200 = Marine Wins: 7 (46.67%) Alien Wins: 8 (53.33%) its a beta, get over it kids...its not needed to complain about every new thing UWE did. Its ok if you you say you don't like it, but creating like every second a new "alien's are op !!111" thread is just annoying because its not true...also its a beta and not everything is in it! I mean marines will get heavy armor and DUAL WIELDED MINIGUNs...gee! Sure, there are some thing i don't like too, but you can say that in the changelog thread but do not create every single second a new thread about aliens are so op and marines need so much more to beat them. There some issues, but its not a solution to cry for "remove" the stuff from aliens... The most player are not in the forums, thats the problem with the reply. I have no idea how the english proverb is, but i guess this match: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->He who shouts is not always right, but at least is he heard more often potentially.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're comparing a sample size of 2700 games to the <i>first 15 games tracked on a new build before a changelog was even posted?</i> Seriously? Have you studied statistics?
EDIT: I'm not trying to be a ######. Seriously, I'm not. But I've Khammed more than 15 games in the last 24 hours, and had <u>one</u> loss during a game where my players couldn't take out one marine with 3-4 skulks in a room. Unless everyone else is having a significantly different experience than I am on west-coast USA, once people figured out you couldn't rocket-skulk down a hallway (and so stopped dying accordingly) the game settled out still vastly in favor of aliens. We may lack an effective bilebomb, but the marines can't even get their game really rolling before fades ruin their day and shut down their expansions/economy.
<!--quoteo(post=1914243:date=Mar 17 2012, 10:58 AM:name=Shrike3O)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shrike3O @ Mar 17 2012, 10:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914243"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We may lack an effective bilebomb, but the marines can't even get their game really rolling before fades ruin their day and shut down their expansions/economy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> A hint: DON'T ALLOW ALIENS TO BUILD A SECOND HIVE. Its not that hard...the maps are not that big. The commander can scan every techpoint to see if a unbuild hive goes on... I mean come on, fades exist in ns1 too and they got way more powerfull stuff, they also could heal themself with their own weapons! If you now say like but marines got heavy armor, thats the point, its a beta, not done, not everything is in...
<!--quoteo(post=1914236:date=Mar 17 2012, 11:30 AM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Mar 17 2012, 11:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914236"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm cool with bilebomb moving to Lerk, because by the sound of things 'combat-engineer' for Gorge sounds quite exciting.
2 new structures? Hell, more content. That is pretty cool!
This patch actually works really well on my laptop - only complaint about this patch is that ARC's have become... incredible. 2 firing together seem to take down a whole hive room in 2/3 shots.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What are your specs? I'm still getting an average of 19 FPS on my laptop.
By 4:15 on ns2_mineshaft, I've had a second hive built, and players already going fade (subsequent mutation boosted by Catalyst), even with a successful marine relocate to Crushing having occurred simultaneously. On Summit or Tram, that timeline isn't quite as aggressive, but it's damn close. Like I've said, there may be a different game going on in the clan world, or on other people's servers, but this isn't an "aliens are OP" complaint from a marine who dies a lot, this is an "aliens are OP" complaint from an alien commander who spent a decent chunk of last night and today wiping the floor with marines repeatedly. Not sure how much clearer I can be on this one.
<!--quoteo(post=1914251:date=Mar 17 2012, 11:12 AM:name=Shrike3O)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shrike3O @ Mar 17 2012, 11:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914251"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->By 4:15 on ns2_mineshaft, I've had a second hive built, and players already going fade (subsequent mutation boosted by Catalyst),<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Aliens can not have 50 Res in 4 minutes... Form Wiki harvester: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->PRes Amount: 0.25 per 8 seconds<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If alien commander build a second hive, there are not much res for resource tower / harvester....so how can you say 50 res in 4 minutes? Maybe you are a liar?
So yeah that's pretty damn good. And my fps is trash.
If this isn't going to give me maxed fps before the game is released I want my money back.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unplayable? Really? I have about the same, the only difference is I have an amd 7950 oc, I use onboard sound and I haven't OC'd my i5 yet. Try checking the tickrate of the server you're playing on with net_stats, if it's below 20, look for a better server. To check FPS: r_stats 1 Which Catalyst drivers are you on? I've decided to skip 12.2, I spot to many people complaining about them. Do remember, NS2 is in beta, the devs make the biggest difference in game performance, not the hardware.
I'm having a hard time deciding whether I should close this thread.
<!--quoteo(post=1914255:date=Mar 17 2012, 02:20 AM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Mar 17 2012, 02:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914255"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aliens can not have 50 Res in 4 minutes... Form Wiki harvester: "PRes Amount: 0.25 per 8 seconds"
If alien commander build a second hive, there are not much res for resource tower / harvester....so how can you say 50 res in 4 minutes? Maybe you are a liar?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The free version of FRAPS will only capture 30 seconds at a time, so this is a bit chunked up, but here you go. I not only have sufficient res to drop that second hive at <b>2:42</b>, that same hive is <b>fully operational and can have fades gestating</b> in under 4 minutes. <a href="http://youtu.be/SCE_ZR2PKBA" target="_blank">http://youtu.be/SCE_ZR2PKBA</a> Game start. <a href="http://youtu.be/n4RwXzyGylc" target="_blank">http://youtu.be/n4RwXzyGylc</a> Dropping the 2nd hive at 2:42. <a href="http://youtu.be/ZQ62JB0BSvI" target="_blank">http://youtu.be/ZQ62JB0BSvI</a> 2nd hive online at 3:59. 3:59 on that run, my record is a few seconds faster but that mostly has to do with drifters landing properly. TRes is not being spent on anything else... no upgrades, and the only drifter I buy is the one required for second hive. I'm not posting to try and sound like I've got a huge penis because I can magically make a four minute hive2 appear, I'm posting to say there's a HUGE F'CKING PROBLEM here if I'm not only dropping that hive in under three minutes, but can have it online, making eggs and fades, in under four.
Call me a liar again, please. We can time trial this on the server of your choice if video isn't doing it for you.
Let me guess, you play with "cheats 1"? this means unlimited energy. Also if aliens got fade its not a victory. They also need regeneration, cara and on. A fade without regen is nothing.
<!--quoteo(post=1913580:date=Mar 15 2012, 08:26 PM:name=Ns1god)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ns1god @ Mar 15 2012, 08:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913580"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would keep what you had going for you, not water it down making everything slower. Should make the lerk be able to bite people again imo and give back bile bomb to gorge.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As boring as this is, I do prefer the old NS1 way.
However I do like the hive/cyst changes from this build.
<!--QuoteBegin-Price+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->First can't see your videos, you have to fix that, but i can see them with my noscript addon. Anyway you just show a second hive and 2 more rts...but you haven't the res to go fade in this time...like i said. but with all this, there is no reason to swear.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're correct, I don't have the Pres to go fade. I'm all of 2 points short of having enough with 48 Pres at the 4 minute mark (this is visible in the video when I hit Tab and bring up the scoreboard). My theoretical teammates who <i>haven't been burning Pres spawning a bunch of cysts</i> are another story, and can go fade immediately assuming they haven't Lerked or Gorged yet. And you know what's coming every 5 ticks after that? Carapace, Regen, and Frenzy, in that order.
I'm more offended by being called a liar than I am by someone swearing on the internet; your mileage may vary of course, but I find direct attacks on my character noticeably more potent than a four letter word on a screen.
<!--quoteo(post=1914265:date=Mar 17 2012, 12:20 PM:name=Shrike3O)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shrike3O @ Mar 17 2012, 12:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914265"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm more offended by being called a liar than I am by someone swearing on the internet; your mileage may vary of course, but I find direct attacks on my character noticeably more potent than a four letter word on a screen.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Do you know the differentiate of "asking" and "being called"? I understand your point but the whole whining is pointless, its a beta damn it! For sure its not balanced now, thats the point of a beta, its not done. But to your test: 1. you test it with cheats 1 right? means no energy cost 2. you could build everything without enemys, in a "real game" marines spread out and attack your rts 3. same as 2. but with hive Marines are not just standing and drink beer, they should clear and kill the hive before its done. And marines can kill a hive very fast.
Also fade don't mean aliens have won. Fade is a race in the game and can be killed by just 1-2 shotgun hits. If you compare these with level 3 armor and nanoshield which needs 8 bites (i guess) to kill one single marine as skulk.
Oh and a nice quote: <!--quoteo(post=1913514:date=Mar 16 2012, 01:31 AM:name=Soul_Rider)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soul_Rider @ Mar 16 2012, 01:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913514"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In 199 Mineshaft had 3 hives at 7.5mins and onos very shortly after<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Im not sure about that, but you also forget the other balance. Its not a instant win if aliens got 2 hives, its not a instant win if aliens got fades... Skulks are weak right now and its not easy to hunt a marine which is faster then you. You should think about more then just "whining" about fades and hives.
THAT is the problem with all the complainer. <b>Also like hundred times, ITS A BETA, undone, not finished, not everything is implemented.</b> Just have patience (i know its hard :P)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Shrike30: I've gotten a second hive up around 4:15 on mineshaft. Price: That's impossible. Maybe you are a liar? Shrike30: Check it out, I've got video proof this can be pulled off in under 4 minutes, and that's a huge f'cking problem. Call me a liar again, please. Price: Don't swear on the Internet! And you don't have enough res to now go fade. Shrike30: You're right. I need to wait 8 more seconds before stop being the commander and can go fade. My teammates, on the other hand, have more than enough. Price: I'm going to call you a kid now, argue that "maybe you're a liar?" isn't effectively the same as "you're a liar," then complain that your whining is pointless since this is a beta. Shrike30: Sigh.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1914268:date=Mar 17 2012, 03:24 AM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Mar 17 2012, 03:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914268"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But to your test: 1. you test it with cheats 1 right? means no energy cost 2. you could build everything without enemys, in a "real game" marines spread out and attack your rts 3. same as 2. but with hive<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1: 3:56 into the game, when I cast that last Catalyze, I've got the hive's 50 starting energy plus the 118 generated by the hive during that wait (1 energy every other second), for 168, or enough to have cast catalyst 6 times. Since it lasts 10 seconds a pop and costs 25 energy to cast, that means the hive has been Catalyzed for 60 of the last 74 seconds since I dropped the hive, and the difference you'll see between cheats 1 and cheats 0 is a few seconds, tops. You know what that new hive comes with? More energy, which I'm going to use on Fades or upgrades, depending on which I need more.
2,3: Mineshaft is a large map, which takes a while to cross. Marines do, in fact, spread out and attack RTs and hives, but unless the other 7-8 guys on the Kharaa team are complete morons, they're usually capable of defending a couple of res nodes which are literally down the hall, and a res node/hive combo which is down the hall and then a quick jaunt to the left, against marines attempting to attack from all the way across the map. Even if the marines relocate to Crushing (which I've had happen), that early in the game they're not usually organized or equipped well enough for a concentrated assault on a SECOND hive which dropped 162 seconds after the game started.
<!--QuoteBegin-Price+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also like hundred times, ITS A BETA<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes. I know this. That's why I'm pointing out a serious problem with a mechanic they've introduced to the beta. Were you under the impression we were supposed to play the game and NOT point out gaping flaws in it's execution during a beta? Isn't that the whole POINT of a beta?
<!--quoteo(post=1914250:date=Mar 17 2012, 10:09 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Mar 17 2012, 10:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914250"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What are your specs? I'm still getting an average of 19 FPS on my laptop.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Probably around 25-30, and this is on a 6 year old SONY laptop with integrated graphics.
Whilst people are suffering now on awesome settings, I get the feeling that it will be running extremely well in a few months.
Trust me, this laptop is junk compared to the systems I see everyone posting.
<!--quoteo(post=1914271:date=Mar 17 2012, 12:34 PM:name=Shrike3O)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shrike3O @ Mar 17 2012, 12:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914271"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->QUOTE Shrike30: I've gotten a second hive up around 4:15 on mineshaft. Price: That's impossible. Maybe you are a liar? Shrike30: Check it out, I've got video proof this can be pulled off in under 4 minutes, and that's a huge f'cking problem. Call me a liar again, please. Price: Don't swear on the Internet! And you don't have enough res to now go fade. Shrike30: You're right. I need to wait 8 more seconds before stop being the commander and can go fade. My teammates, on the other hand, have more than enough. Price: I'm going to call you a kid now, argue that "maybe you're a liar?" isn't effectively the same as "you're a liar," then complain that your whining is pointless since this is a beta. Shrike30: Sigh.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> And the trolling begins... Are you realy that cheap you have to create fake quotes? Or put them in a line how you want them? You troll are so pathetic.
<!--quoteo(post=1914273:date=Mar 17 2012, 12:51 PM:name=Shrike3O)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shrike3O @ Mar 17 2012, 12:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914273"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes. I know this. That's why I'm pointing out a serious problem with a mechanic they've introduced to the beta. Were you under the impression we were supposed to play the game and NOT point out gaping flaws in it's execution during a beta? Isn't that the whole POINT of a beta?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I guess you don't know, because you cry like a little baby. A beta need feedback, but if people like you just crying is not helpfully. Do you think UWE don't know how catalyst works and how fast hives goes up? Feedback is good but crying like a baby not and thats what you do. A second hive is going up fast with catalyst, oh gee thats so imba!!11one.
I can say i had a lot games now as aliens and marines with b200 and aliens lost more, no matter if they have fade or not. Because fade is not the goal to win, no matter how much you cry about them. Take a flamethrower suck their energy and they are doomed. Very simple.
<!--quoteo(post=1914276:date=Mar 17 2012, 04:00 AM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Mar 17 2012, 04:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914276"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And the trolling begins... Are you realy that cheap you have to create fake quotes? Or put them in a line how you want them? You troll are so pathetic.
I guess you don't know, because you cry like a little baby. A beta need feedback, but if people like you just crying is not helpfully. Do you think UWE don't know how catalyst works and how fast hives goes up? Feedback is good but crying like a baby not and thats what you do. A second hive is going up fast with catalyst, OMG thats so imba!!11one<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's called parody. That quote was intended to sum up and comment on 7-8 posts in about a hundred words. I'm going to bow out at this point, because this conversation is going to trash any legitimate conversation this thread might hold. I'd suggest to you that you try for yourself what I've outlined and videoed. It works, and I've done it repeatedly on pub servers.
Comments
Uhh. Lerk wins a 1v1 with his spikes. He bile bombs until he sees a marine coming, then fights the marine, wins, and bile bombs again.
Lerk Bilebomb is Bilebomb in name only at this point, it's an entirely different weapon. You can't make the direct comparison.
Lerks can be even more vulnerable than Gorges delivering their payload, so the risk/reward is there. Gorges could sit from afar and attack or evolve in cheesy places to bomb from, Lerks going in for strafing runs will need to expose themselves, thus requiring support from their team. I can see this working out ok. Lerks needed something to be doing mid-late game as the marine armour nullified the effectiveness of their -light- damage spikes.
<!--quoteo(post=1913869:date=Mar 17 2012, 01:07 AM:name=Argathor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Argathor @ Mar 17 2012, 01:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913869"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Who is everybody? No real gathers/clan matches were played as the last patch was so horribly bad (looks like we are heading for the same again this patch). In most of the public games I played as aliens, I constantly had marines complaining the Gorge was overpowered or I was abusing OP mechanics (as I killed their bases solo). Hardly the consensus that Gorges were bad.
Such sweeping generalisations don't do you, or anyone else much good.
You could easily argue that in b199 Gorges had a major contribution to Alien wins (more so than other lifeforms). Not only are fades/onos partly reliant on them, but they fortify areas, destroy marine resources, support alien pushes, destroy bases solo and help to spread map control. In my games as aliens I ended most of them as Gorge by either:
a) Destroying Marine Resources (killing structures in lightning raids that the marine team could not afford to replace over time, ending their game).
b) Destorying the Marine Bases (taking out important structures: obs, ips, comm chair, arms lab, etc. so that marines cannot recover).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From my experience the majority people on Gathers hated the implementation of the Gorge's bilebomb.
Seriously...with these changes, you cant yell bloody murder day 1. Play the damn thing already. I even seen posts were people are saying "oh yeah thats a terrible change...I only watched a video though...havent played it" ....really???
If a community rants like this, whats the use of a Beta testing. You criticism is based on a few hours of play! ergo... not valid! Give yer CONSTRUCTIVE criticism after a few days, people might take you more serious.
Yea, I see that bite is flawed in a lot of ways aswell. It's already fairly easy to die as a lerk and bite would only increase that chance. I still feel that staying behind the fight and sniping doesn't fit to lerks.
<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->+1<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
!! feedback! good idea!
And marines play against helpless cats?
The game is not finished and yes, its imba right now, its after EVERY patch imba.
Before 200 it was aliens who beat the sh*t out of marines, now marines did it...the also run faster then a skulk.
Do I want it left as-is? No. Bilebomb needs (and is already getting) some tweaks. Spikes need a slight (10-20%) effectiveness tweak. And they either need to be cheaper or tougher (not both). But the current Lerk is ######' awesome, as far as I'm concerned, and the idea that there's still another ability to be added just makes me happy :D
2 new structures? Hell, more content. That is pretty cool!
This patch actually works really well on my laptop - only complaint about this patch is that ARC's have become... incredible. 2 firing together seem to take down a whole hive room in 2/3 shots.
What build are you playing where marines are winning?
I'd say in some sense the lerk was actually a pretty smart setup. It combined a low risk easy to use spores and high risk skill intense bites, which then allowed players to be useful even without the do-or-die attitude that for example fades had.
Obviously the outcome wasn't anywhere near perfect and didn't seem to work very well in practise, but I very much like starting point from design viewpoint. If the learning curve really has to be as accessible as modern games seem to have it, the lerk design seems like a reasonable way to do it.
...
<a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?version=199&output=chart" target="_blank">http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/disp...mp;output=chart</a>
199 =
Marine Wins: 900 (36.00%)
Alien Wins: 1600 (64.00%)
<a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?version=200&output=chart" target="_blank">http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/disp...mp;output=chart</a>
200 =
Marine Wins: 7 (46.67%)
Alien Wins: 8 (53.33%)
its a beta, get over it kids...its not needed to complain about every new thing UWE did.
Its ok if you you say you don't like it, but creating like every second a new "alien's are op !!111" thread is just annoying because its not true...also its a beta and not everything is in it!
I mean marines will get heavy armor and DUAL WIELDED MINIGUNs...gee!
Sure, there are some thing i don't like too, but you can say that in the changelog thread but do not create every single second a new thread about aliens are so op and marines need so much more to beat them.
There some issues, but its not a solution to cry for "remove" the stuff from aliens...
The most player are not in the forums, thats the problem with the reply.
I have no idea how the english proverb is, but i guess this match:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->He who shouts is not always right, but at least is he heard more often potentially.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
EDIT: I'm not trying to be a ######. Seriously, I'm not. But I've Khammed more than 15 games in the last 24 hours, and had <u>one</u> loss during a game where my players couldn't take out one marine with 3-4 skulks in a room. Unless everyone else is having a significantly different experience than I am on west-coast USA, once people figured out you couldn't rocket-skulk down a hallway (and so stopped dying accordingly) the game settled out still vastly in favor of aliens. We may lack an effective bilebomb, but the marines can't even get their game really rolling before fades ruin their day and shut down their expansions/economy.
A hint:
DON'T ALLOW ALIENS TO BUILD A SECOND HIVE.
Its not that hard...the maps are not that big.
The commander can scan every techpoint to see if a unbuild hive goes on...
I mean come on, fades exist in ns1 too and they got way more powerfull stuff, they also could heal themself with their own weapons!
If you now say like but marines got heavy armor, thats the point, its a beta, not done, not everything is in...
2 new structures? Hell, more content. That is pretty cool!
This patch actually works really well on my laptop - only complaint about this patch is that ARC's have become... incredible. 2 firing together seem to take down a whole hive room in 2/3 shots.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What are your specs? I'm still getting an average of 19 FPS on my laptop.
core i5 @ 4.3ghz
8 gigs ram
amd 6950
xi-fi XtremeGamer
So yeah that's pretty damn good. And my fps is trash.
If this isn't going to give me maxed fps before the game is released I want my money back.
Aliens can not have 50 Res in 4 minutes...
Form Wiki harvester:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->PRes Amount: 0.25 per 8 seconds<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If alien commander build a second hive, there are not much res for resource tower / harvester....so how can you say 50 res in 4 minutes?
Maybe you are a liar?
core i5 @ 4.3ghz
8 gigs ram
amd 6950
xi-fi XtremeGamer
So yeah that's pretty damn good. And my fps is trash.
If this isn't going to give me maxed fps before the game is released I want my money back.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unplayable? Really? I have about the same, the only difference is I have an amd 7950 oc, I use onboard sound and I haven't OC'd my i5 yet.
Try checking the tickrate of the server you're playing on with net_stats, if it's below 20, look for a better server.
To check FPS: r_stats 1
Which Catalyst drivers are you on? I've decided to skip 12.2, I spot to many people complaining about them.
Do remember, NS2 is in beta, the devs make the biggest difference in game performance, not the hardware.
I'm having a hard time deciding whether I should close this thread.
Form Wiki harvester: "PRes Amount: 0.25 per 8 seconds"
If alien commander build a second hive, there are not much res for resource tower / harvester....so how can you say 50 res in 4 minutes?
Maybe you are a liar?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The free version of FRAPS will only capture 30 seconds at a time, so this is a bit chunked up, but here you go. I not only have sufficient res to drop that second hive at <b>2:42</b>, that same hive is <b>fully operational and can have fades gestating</b> in under 4 minutes.
<a href="http://youtu.be/SCE_ZR2PKBA" target="_blank">http://youtu.be/SCE_ZR2PKBA</a> Game start.
<a href="http://youtu.be/n4RwXzyGylc" target="_blank">http://youtu.be/n4RwXzyGylc</a> Dropping the 2nd hive at 2:42.
<a href="http://youtu.be/ZQ62JB0BSvI" target="_blank">http://youtu.be/ZQ62JB0BSvI</a> 2nd hive online at 3:59.
3:59 on that run, my record is a few seconds faster but that mostly has to do with drifters landing properly. TRes is not being spent on anything else... no upgrades, and the only drifter I buy is the one required for second hive. I'm not posting to try and sound like I've got a huge penis because I can magically make a four minute hive2 appear, I'm posting to say there's a HUGE F'CKING PROBLEM here if I'm not only dropping that hive in under three minutes, but can have it online, making eggs and fades, in under four.
Call me a liar again, please. We can time trial this on the server of your choice if video isn't doing it for you.
Also if aliens got fade its not a victory.
They also need regeneration, cara and on.
A fade without regen is nothing.
As boring as this is, I do prefer the old NS1 way.
However I do like the hive/cyst changes from this build.
Anyway you just show a second hive and 2 more rts...but you haven't the res to go fade in this time...like i said.
but with all this, there is no reason to swear.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're correct, I don't have the Pres to go fade. I'm all of 2 points short of having enough with 48 Pres at the 4 minute mark (this is visible in the video when I hit Tab and bring up the scoreboard). My theoretical teammates who <i>haven't been burning Pres spawning a bunch of cysts</i> are another story, and can go fade immediately assuming they haven't Lerked or Gorged yet. And you know what's coming every 5 ticks after that? Carapace, Regen, and Frenzy, in that order.
I'm more offended by being called a liar than I am by someone swearing on the internet; your mileage may vary of course, but I find direct attacks on my character noticeably more potent than a four letter word on a screen.
Do you know the differentiate of "asking" and "being called"?
I understand your point but the whole whining is pointless, its a beta damn it!
For sure its not balanced now, thats the point of a beta, its not done.
But to your test:
1. you test it with cheats 1 right? means no energy cost
2. you could build everything without enemys, in a "real game" marines spread out and attack your rts
3. same as 2. but with hive
Marines are not just standing and drink beer, they should clear and kill the hive before its done.
And marines can kill a hive very fast.
Also fade don't mean aliens have won.
Fade is a race in the game and can be killed by just 1-2 shotgun hits.
If you compare these with level 3 armor and nanoshield which needs 8 bites (i guess) to kill one single marine as skulk.
Oh and a nice quote:
<!--quoteo(post=1913514:date=Mar 16 2012, 01:31 AM:name=Soul_Rider)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soul_Rider @ Mar 16 2012, 01:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913514"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In 199 Mineshaft had 3 hives at 7.5mins and onos very shortly after<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im not sure about that, but you also forget the other balance.
Its not a instant win if aliens got 2 hives, its not a instant win if aliens got fades...
Skulks are weak right now and its not easy to hunt a marine which is faster then you.
You should think about more then just "whining" about fades and hives.
THAT is the problem with all the complainer.
<b>Also like hundred times, ITS A BETA, undone, not finished, not everything is implemented.</b>
Just have patience (i know its hard :P)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Shrike30: I've gotten a second hive up around 4:15 on mineshaft.
Price: That's impossible. Maybe you are a liar?
Shrike30: Check it out, I've got video proof this can be pulled off in under 4 minutes, and that's a huge f'cking problem. Call me a liar again, please.
Price: Don't swear on the Internet! And you don't have enough res to now go fade.
Shrike30: You're right. I need to wait 8 more seconds before stop being the commander and can go fade. My teammates, on the other hand, have more than enough.
Price: I'm going to call you a kid now, argue that "maybe you're a liar?" isn't effectively the same as "you're a liar," then complain that your whining is pointless since this is a beta.
Shrike30: Sigh.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. you test it with cheats 1 right? means no energy cost
2. you could build everything without enemys, in a "real game" marines spread out and attack your rts
3. same as 2. but with hive<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1: 3:56 into the game, when I cast that last Catalyze, I've got the hive's 50 starting energy plus the 118 generated by the hive during that wait (1 energy every other second), for 168, or enough to have cast catalyst 6 times. Since it lasts 10 seconds a pop and costs 25 energy to cast, that means the hive has been Catalyzed for 60 of the last 74 seconds since I dropped the hive, and the difference you'll see between cheats 1 and cheats 0 is a few seconds, tops. You know what that new hive comes with? More energy, which I'm going to use on Fades or upgrades, depending on which I need more.
2,3: Mineshaft is a large map, which takes a while to cross. Marines do, in fact, spread out and attack RTs and hives, but unless the other 7-8 guys on the Kharaa team are complete morons, they're usually capable of defending a couple of res nodes which are literally down the hall, and a res node/hive combo which is down the hall and then a quick jaunt to the left, against marines attempting to attack from all the way across the map. Even if the marines relocate to Crushing (which I've had happen), that early in the game they're not usually organized or equipped well enough for a concentrated assault on a SECOND hive which dropped 162 seconds after the game started.
<!--QuoteBegin-Price+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also like hundred times, ITS A BETA<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. I know this. That's why I'm pointing out a serious problem with a mechanic they've introduced to the beta. Were you under the impression we were supposed to play the game and NOT point out gaping flaws in it's execution during a beta? Isn't that the whole POINT of a beta?
Probably around 25-30, and this is on a 6 year old SONY laptop with integrated graphics.
Whilst people are suffering now on awesome settings, I get the feeling that it will be running extremely well in a few months.
Trust me, this laptop is junk compared to the systems I see everyone posting.
Shrike30: I've gotten a second hive up around 4:15 on mineshaft.
Price: That's impossible. Maybe you are a liar?
Shrike30: Check it out, I've got video proof this can be pulled off in under 4 minutes, and that's a huge f'cking problem. Call me a liar again, please.
Price: Don't swear on the Internet! And you don't have enough res to now go fade.
Shrike30: You're right. I need to wait 8 more seconds before stop being the commander and can go fade. My teammates, on the other hand, have more than enough.
Price: I'm going to call you a kid now, argue that "maybe you're a liar?" isn't effectively the same as "you're a liar," then complain that your whining is pointless since this is a beta.
Shrike30: Sigh.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And the trolling begins...
Are you realy that cheap you have to create fake quotes? Or put them in a line how you want them?
You troll are so pathetic.
<!--quoteo(post=1914273:date=Mar 17 2012, 12:51 PM:name=Shrike3O)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shrike3O @ Mar 17 2012, 12:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914273"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes. I know this. That's why I'm pointing out a serious problem with a mechanic they've introduced to the beta. Were you under the impression we were supposed to play the game and NOT point out gaping flaws in it's execution during a beta? Isn't that the whole POINT of a beta?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess you don't know, because you cry like a little baby.
A beta need feedback, but if people like you just crying is not helpfully.
Do you think UWE don't know how catalyst works and how fast hives goes up?
Feedback is good but crying like a baby not and thats what you do.
A second hive is going up fast with catalyst, oh gee thats so imba!!11one.
I can say i had a lot games now as aliens and marines with b200 and aliens lost more, no matter if they have fade or not.
Because fade is not the goal to win, no matter how much you cry about them.
Take a flamethrower suck their energy and they are doomed.
Very simple.
Are you realy that cheap you have to create fake quotes? Or put them in a line how you want them?
You troll are so pathetic.
I guess you don't know, because you cry like a little baby.
A beta need feedback, but if people like you just crying is not helpfully.
Do you think UWE don't know how catalyst works and how fast hives goes up?
Feedback is good but crying like a baby not and thats what you do.
A second hive is going up fast with catalyst, OMG thats so imba!!11one<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's called parody. That quote was intended to sum up and comment on 7-8 posts in about a hundred words. I'm going to bow out at this point, because this conversation is going to trash any legitimate conversation this thread might hold. I'd suggest to you that you try for yourself what I've outlined and videoed. It works, and I've done it repeatedly on pub servers.