IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
Like I already posted in this thread - half of those things are already recorded. Its not hard to implement or make it accessible to mod. Personally, like I mentioned, I'd love to see these as the method in which you earn pres, instead of TIME and patience being your input. (considering aliens don't need players to build res towers, and with macs, marines may not always either) it would solve mass tech/spam issues (five fades) and encourage team play that was reflected through rewarding pres. Res towers would give tres so map control still means tech.
I'd love to coordinate with someone to draw up a rough sketch of something that is balanced, both in numbers and acts, for both teams? As this would be the "nightmare" aspect of this idea.
points need some sort of assist tracking system or rambos will always have their stats skewed upwards as they do not run the risk of kill credit being stolen by their teammates.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1915911:date=Mar 21 2012, 03:54 PM:name=MuYeah)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MuYeah @ Mar 21 2012, 03:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915911"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Points shouldn't really be taken seriously in any way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> +1 They are just points.
<!--quoteo(post=1915911:date=Mar 21 2012, 07:54 AM:name=MuYeah)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MuYeah @ Mar 21 2012, 07:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915911"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Points shouldn't really be taken seriously in any way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's a simple fact of life that people like being recognized for what they do.
I've played a lot of games where I've gone gorge and spent my pres on hydras/cysts and spent my time defending/healing hives. I've played an important role, but looking at the scoreboard, I look like I'm nearly useless.
Is that going to stop me from going gorge? No, but it still kinda sucks.
<!--quoteo(post=1915975:date=Mar 21 2012, 02:37 PM:name=Gorge Costanza)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gorge Costanza @ Mar 21 2012, 02:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915975"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's a simple fact of life that people like being recognized for what they do.
I've played a lot of games where I've gone gorge and spent my pres on hydras/cysts and spent my time defending/healing hives. I've played an important role, but looking at the scoreboard, I look like I'm nearly useless.
Is that going to stop me from going gorge? No, but it still kinda sucks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1916083:date=Mar 22 2012, 01:41 AM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Mar 22 2012, 01:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916083"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How many hydra kills do you get when you do this?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1916085:date=Mar 21 2012, 07:42 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Mar 21 2012, 07:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916085"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its always about the kills<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well the point is to expose how worthless hydra spammers are, and how this is a prime example of someone pretending they're contributing and stifling their own skill development.....but yes thank you for the one-liner
The problem with this thread is that KDR being important is already the default position, and many folks around here point out that in NS specifically, it's not as important as it is in other games.
And they're right.
Yet here you are making a thread about "Hai GUYZ! Dis here tings important!"
Yes. It is. But not like it is in other games, KDR is less important in NS2 than it is in most. Because if I run around as a marine, scout things out, weld stuff (or build helpful chambers in hidden places) and generally avoid combat, I can be having a large effect for the team even if my KDR sits at zero. Could I be having more of an effect if I got into combat and killed things? Maybe.. but then my time spent in combat would be time I'm not spending doing other things my team needs like base building or hidden scouting, etc.
The problem is that because KDR being very important is already the default, when you come in and make a post trying to tell us all how important KDR is, the natural assumption is going to be that you're talking about how it's important in NS2 above and beyond the default. Which, I'm sorry, in NS it isn't.
<!--quoteo(post=1916022:date=Mar 21 2012, 08:43 PM:name=DJPenguin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DJPenguin @ Mar 21 2012, 08:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916022"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->pissed off commentary from the opposing team in All chat is much more important (not to mention enjoyable) than silly points.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And also a much better indicator of how well you're doing :D
<!--quoteo(post=1916083:date=Mar 21 2012, 04:41 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Mar 21 2012, 04:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916083"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How many hydra kills do you get when you do this?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very few. I usually only put up around 3 and then use a lot of spit. It's sufficient to keep at least a couple of marines at bay while the second hive is going up.
<!--quoteo(post=1916127:date=Mar 22 2012, 03:12 AM:name=Gorge Costanza)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gorge Costanza @ Mar 22 2012, 03:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916127"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Very few. I usually only put up around 3 and then use a lot of spit. It's sufficient to keep at least a couple of marines at bay while the second hive is going up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1916089:date=Mar 21 2012, 04:48 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Mar 21 2012, 04:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916089"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well the point is to expose how worthless hydra spammers are, and how this is a prime example of someone pretending they're contributing and stifling their own skill development.....but yes thank you for the one-liner<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When I sit behind a hive healing it during a major attack, *saving it*, but dying myself, am I terrible because I died without getting a kill that life?
<!--quoteo(post=1916133:date=Mar 22 2012, 03:17 AM:name=Gorge Costanza)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gorge Costanza @ Mar 22 2012, 03:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916133"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When I sit behind a hive healing it during a major attack, *saving it*, but dying myself, am I terrible because I died without getting a kill that life?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When I sit behind a hive healing it during a major attack, *saving it*, but dying myself, am I terrible because I died without getting a kill that life?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When gorges do this (thanks gorge constanza) its very helpful in slowing or deny an area of the map and it usually does contribute to keeping either A) the main base from being overrun while the second hive going up or B) keeping marines away from the 2nd hive while it goes up.
Usually the scenario plays out: Gorge drops hydras and com sometimes helps with crag near hydras, gorge stays and heals and defends while marines ping at the hydras, gorge may live or die its 50/50, meanwhile 2-3 skulks flank the occupied marines and clears out the area until the next wave of marines are pressuring again, rinse repeat until fades arrive and push marines back into their territory.
Yea the gorges score will be meh, some of the closest ns1 and ns2 games I've played have been won or lost because of the gorge and I know that can be satisfying for people who prefer a support role over a fade rape extraordinaire.
The amount of ###### arguments in this thread is staggering. Nobody has claimed that KDR is the end-all-be-all metric of in-game performance (That would be win% :3) but I think anybody denying it has its uses is in denial. If you measured the correlation between team KDR and team victories, I'm sure there'd be a significant correlation. You can come up with all the examples you want where where a player with a low KDR contributes more than a player with a high KDR but it doesn't change the fact the majority of the time the high KDR player is contributing more. It's not a perfect measurement, but it doesn't have to be.
<!--quoteo(post=1915499:date=Mar 20 2012, 09:55 AM:name=Floodinator)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Floodinator @ Mar 20 2012, 09:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915499"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Some players may remember the old SEK2000 server from NS1. They run a hughe and complex system on the server that calculated everything you did.
F.e. if you were walking alone (ramboing) without a WP order from your commander you got a warning that you were walking too much alone, and if you ignored it you lost points. Welding, building, reacting to WP, really everything was counted in. You could gain "ranks" or lose so many points that you were banned for 1 day. And if the teams were not even in the ranks, the system stopped counting, so that thus round won't give points.
I can't find the old 10 pages long Server FAQ, I only know it was alot of work to maintain and tweek, but it was the most accurate scoring system I ever saw.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm pretty sure this is the same system that decided to counterbalance Makaveli by his lonesome self with 12 other players
Maybe the Server could run something like those amx plugins that showed at the end of the round who healed most, who was eaten most, who took most damage, who build the most hydras, etc etc.
This could be a good reward system, because it doesn't only count kills. Those stats could be tracked and if you healed alot of ppl you get a medic icon or if you welded the most you get a welder icon as long as you stay on the server, maybe even on all servers?
But as we know they are working on the scoresystem so lets see with what they gona surprise us.
ArgathorJoin Date: 2011-07-18Member: 110942Members, Squad Five Blue
The score system should be basic. Good enough to give new players a general understanding of what constitutes positive behavior and that is it.
A scoring system will never be able to comprehensively record all positive actions and reward them proportionally. It will always discount some actions that are positive and over proportionally reward some positive actions, etc. The scoring systems job is simple, so keep the scoring simple too.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n1p-fMEV8Y#t=2m20s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n1p-fMEV8Y#t=2m20s</a> This Gorge got zero kills with his hydras. He also almost single-handedly held off half the marine team. There's a time and a place...
<!--quoteo(post=1916250:date=Mar 22 2012, 08:36 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Mar 22 2012, 08:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916250"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n1p-fMEV8Y#t=2m20s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n1p-fMEV8Y#t=2m20s</a> This Gorge got zero kills with his hydras. He also almost single-handedly held off half the marine team. There's a time and a place...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i too love going gorge and making a hydra wall next to marine base early in the game if both bases start next to each other. having as much as two marines attacking it in a feeble attempt to break through is doing wonders for your alien team.
wow really? people are talking as if KDR truly matters? it's all too circumstantial in NS2; considering all the factors that play into this game. a player might have 50:1 KDR due to superior tech, location, timing, teamplay and even the target he's shooting at. there are plenty of times i averaged 30+ KDR (without being much use to the team) mostly by killing the same noob at the same place or even by being the 'b*tch' in the squad, standing behind the squad and finishing off the leftovers. does higher KDR mean you are a good player? not necessarily, again there are too many factors to consider. the main objective of this game is to win AS A TEAM! and in order to do so various roles and position must be played. support, comm, combat, meat shield etc... are all equally important when it comes to this game. KDR is more or less just a dopamine switch for individual players. the game itself is designed around teamwork so there will be gorge players that average 0 kills per round, but at the same time playing a crucial role for their team. like strategic warfare in real life, individuals might track their own kills, but in a overall sense there are far bigger factors that play into winning a war, such as logistics, tech, communication, organization, tactics etc... i firmly believe that in a game like this TEAM KDR is what should be tracked.
if individual KDR really matters to the point where it's going to affect the whole teams progress, you should be playing BF3 or COD where tickets are tracked, and winning the game is straight forward and lateral, synonymous to KDR. individual KDR, is definitely a dopamine thing that carried over from other FPS. (now a days developers hire behavioral psychologists to make games more addicting through dopamine look up skinner box)
i've realized the best players in the game are the most cooperative players in the game, those that understand the teamwork concept. playing the roles that no one wants to, allowing the combat players to be effective.
When I sit behind a hive healing it during a major attack, *saving it*, but dying myself, am I terrible because I died without getting a kill that life?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, because you could have healed the hive, killed all of the Marines with Spit and Healspray, and <i>not died</i>! Did you ever think of trying that? I mean, that would make you not suck as a player; you'd have a 3-0 K/D instead of a 0-1 like you do now! I mean, sure, the Hive might have gone down, losing the game for the rest of your team who were on the way, but you'd be a <i>much</i> better player due to your increased K/D while you were looking at the 'YOU LOSE' screen, and can complain about how the rest of your team is to blame, and suck.
Seriously though, I can recall a TON of these kinds of 'bad choices' when rated by K/D that saved games. K/D is a mindless metric for the Halo/CoD/CS fratboy subset that does not reward teamwork, self-sacrifice for the greater good, or clever play. In fact, playing as intended (walking in groups, repairing structures, exhibiting map control/denial) is HARMFUL for your K/D, if that's what you're paying attention to. A 1:1 fight (ramboing) gives you a full chance at each kill, or suffering a death. A 3:1 fight reduces your chances of dying, but lowers your chances of being the one to get the last bullet to 1/3, all other things being equal.
K/D Ratio is only useful in free-for-all deathmatch games. It is slightly less useful in team deathmatch games (with no support classes). Less useful still in TDM games WITH support classes (that credit assists). And has about as much impact on the actual outcome of an NS(/2) game as a wind check does while playing mini-golf. It might make you feel more 'pro', or give you a slight idea about where things might lean. But otherwise?
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited March 2012
talesin, you're ignoring all of the good points in this thread that are counters to your accusatory stereotyping? its merely a reflection of one aspect of a team's effectiveness - consider the game is about PvP and PvE , and is a poor measurement to be considered an indicator of much else.
i'm like the 20th person in these 8 pages of thread to say this.. i know.. but i just keep seeing posts from you throwing out "mindless metric for cs fratboy" argument. I'm sorry but others have expressed clearly many times already here how you are just reaching an extremely presumptuous claim everytime.
if four fades K/D ratio are high, its clear just from that scoreboard to deduce that map control is beginning to lean in favor of aliens at that point - at the very least they probably arent losing ground if they are only defending. but see, it still tells you <u>something</u>. Thats all this thread was saying i believe, to not just discount it as its reflective of <u>SOMETHING </u>, still.
We all get your viewpoint on the issue, too, i don't think anyone here is accurately fitting your "Fratboy" role and saying "K/D is my #1 measurement to determine how awesome my team/ i am, BRO!" so i think you can lay that stereotype to rest.
<!--quoteo(post=1916426:date=Mar 23 2012, 12:36 AM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Mar 23 2012, 12:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916426"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if four fades K/D ratio are high, its clear just from that scoreboard to deduce that map control is beginning to lean in favor of aliens at that point - at the very least they probably arent losing ground if they are only defending. but see, it still tells you <u>something</u>. Thats all this thread was saying i believe, to not just discount it as its reflective of <u>SOMETHING </u>, still.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree. What I think this thread was trying to show is that KD actually <b>accomplishes</b> something, as if it is the killing itself which gains the aliens that control over the map. What most of the people here are saying, I believe, is that this simply is not the case. It is not the killing which gains a team map control, it is map control which increases a teams ability to kill.
Comments
I'd love to coordinate with someone to draw up a rough sketch of something that is balanced, both in numbers and acts, for both teams? As this would be the "nightmare" aspect of this idea.
+1
They are just points.
They are just points.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
POINTS WIN PRIZES*!
* unless you are not playing a gameshow.
It's a simple fact of life that people like being recognized for what they do.
I've played a lot of games where I've gone gorge and spent my pres on hydras/cysts and spent my time defending/healing hives. I've played an important role, but looking at the scoreboard, I look like I'm nearly useless.
Is that going to stop me from going gorge? No, but it still kinda sucks.
I've played a lot of games where I've gone gorge and spent my pres on hydras/cysts and spent my time defending/healing hives. I've played an important role, but looking at the scoreboard, I look like I'm nearly useless.
Is that going to stop me from going gorge? No, but it still kinda sucks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How many hydra kills do you get when you do this?
Its always about the kills
Well the point is to expose how worthless hydra spammers are, and how this is a prime example of someone pretending they're contributing and stifling their own skill development.....but yes thank you for the one-liner
And they're right.
Yet here you are making a thread about "Hai GUYZ! Dis here tings important!"
Yes. It is. But not like it is in other games, KDR is less important in NS2 than it is in most. Because if I run around as a marine, scout things out, weld stuff (or build helpful chambers in hidden places) and generally avoid combat, I can be having a large effect for the team even if my KDR sits at zero. Could I be having more of an effect if I got into combat and killed things? Maybe.. but then my time spent in combat would be time I'm not spending doing other things my team needs like base building or hidden scouting, etc.
The problem is that because KDR being very important is already the default, when you come in and make a post trying to tell us all how important KDR is, the natural assumption is going to be that you're talking about how it's important in NS2 above and beyond the default. Which, I'm sorry, in NS it isn't.
And also a much better indicator of how well you're doing :D
Very few. I usually only put up around 3 and then use a lot of spit. It's sufficient to keep at least a couple of marines at bay while the second hive is going up.
No kills? Then you made no contribution.
How am I pretending I'm contributing? Would it be preferable to let 3 marines waltz in the second hive while it's going up and hope my team's skulks (a) have sufficient awareness of the problem, (b) care enough to attack a group of 3 marines rather than search for loners who are easier kills, and © are good enough to kill them?
When I sit behind a hive healing it during a major attack, *saving it*, but dying myself, am I terrible because I died without getting a kill that life?
Yes
:(
When I sit behind a hive healing it during a major attack, *saving it*, but dying myself, am I terrible because I died without getting a kill that life?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When gorges do this (thanks gorge constanza) its very helpful in slowing or deny an area of the map and it usually does contribute to keeping either A) the main base from being overrun while the second hive going up or B) keeping marines away from the 2nd hive while it goes up.
Usually the scenario plays out: Gorge drops hydras and com sometimes helps with crag near hydras, gorge stays and heals and defends while marines ping at the hydras, gorge may live or die its 50/50, meanwhile 2-3 skulks flank the occupied marines and clears out the area until the next wave of marines are pressuring again, rinse repeat until fades arrive and push marines back into their territory.
Yea the gorges score will be meh, some of the closest ns1 and ns2 games I've played have been won or lost because of the gorge and I know that can be satisfying for people who prefer a support role over a fade rape extraordinaire.
.02
<!--quoteo(post=1915499:date=Mar 20 2012, 09:55 AM:name=Floodinator)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Floodinator @ Mar 20 2012, 09:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915499"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Some players may remember the old SEK2000 server from NS1. They run a hughe and complex system on the server that calculated everything you did.
F.e. if you were walking alone (ramboing) without a WP order from your commander you got a warning that you were walking too much alone, and if you ignored it you lost points.
Welding, building, reacting to WP, really everything was counted in.
You could gain "ranks" or lose so many points that you were banned for 1 day.
And if the teams were not even in the ranks, the system stopped counting, so that thus round won't give points.
I can't find the old 10 pages long Server FAQ, I only know it was alot of work to maintain and tweek, but it was the most accurate scoring system I ever saw.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm pretty sure this is the same system that decided to counterbalance Makaveli by his lonesome self with 12 other players
This could be a good reward system, because it doesn't only count kills.
Those stats could be tracked and if you healed alot of ppl you get a medic icon or if you welded the most you get a welder icon as long as you stay on the server, maybe even on all servers?
But as we know they are working on the scoresystem so lets see with what they gona surprise us.
A scoring system will never be able to comprehensively record all positive actions and reward them proportionally. It will always discount some actions that are positive and over proportionally reward some positive actions, etc. The scoring systems job is simple, so keep the scoring simple too.
This Gorge got zero kills with his hydras. He also almost single-handedly held off half the marine team.
There's a time and a place...
This Gorge got zero kills with his hydras. He also almost single-handedly held off half the marine team.
There's a time and a place...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i too love going gorge and making a hydra wall next to marine base early in the game if both bases start next to each other. having as much as two marines attacking it in a feeble attempt to break through is doing wonders for your alien team.
in NS2; considering all the factors that play into this game. a player might
have 50:1 KDR due to superior tech, location, timing, teamplay and even the target
he's shooting at. there are plenty of times i averaged 30+ KDR (without being much use to the team)
mostly by killing the same noob at the same place or even by being the 'b*tch' in the squad, standing
behind the squad and finishing off the leftovers. does higher KDR mean you are
a good player? not necessarily, again there are too many factors to consider.
the main objective of this game is to win AS A TEAM! and in order to do so various
roles and position must be played. support, comm, combat, meat shield etc...
are all equally important when it comes to this game. KDR is more or less just a
dopamine switch for individual players. the game itself is designed around teamwork
so there will be gorge players that average 0 kills per round, but at the same time
playing a crucial role for their team. like strategic warfare in real life, individuals might
track their own kills, but in a overall sense there are far bigger factors that play into winning
a war, such as logistics, tech, communication, organization, tactics etc...
i firmly believe that in a game like this TEAM KDR is what should be tracked.
if individual KDR really matters to the point where it's going to affect the whole teams
progress, you should be playing BF3 or COD where tickets are tracked, and winning the
game is straight forward and lateral, synonymous to KDR. individual KDR, is definitely
a dopamine thing that carried over from other FPS. (now a days developers hire
behavioral psychologists to make games more addicting through dopamine look up
skinner box)
i've realized the best players in the game are the most cooperative players in the game,
those that understand the teamwork concept. playing the roles that no one wants to,
allowing the combat players to be effective.
When I sit behind a hive healing it during a major attack, *saving it*, but dying myself, am I terrible because I died without getting a kill that life?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, because you could have healed the hive, killed all of the Marines with Spit and Healspray, and <i>not died</i>! Did you ever think of trying that? I mean, that would make you not suck as a player; you'd have a 3-0 K/D instead of a 0-1 like you do now! I mean, sure, the Hive might have gone down, losing the game for the rest of your team who were on the way, but you'd be a <i>much</i> better player due to your increased K/D while you were looking at the 'YOU LOSE' screen, and can complain about how the rest of your team is to blame, and suck.
Seriously though, I can recall a TON of these kinds of 'bad choices' when rated by K/D that saved games. K/D is a mindless metric for the Halo/CoD/CS fratboy subset that does not reward teamwork, self-sacrifice for the greater good, or clever play. In fact, playing as intended (walking in groups, repairing structures, exhibiting map control/denial) is HARMFUL for your K/D, if that's what you're paying attention to. A 1:1 fight (ramboing) gives you a full chance at each kill, or suffering a death. A 3:1 fight reduces your chances of dying, but lowers your chances of being the one to get the last bullet to 1/3, all other things being equal.
K/D Ratio is only useful in free-for-all deathmatch games. It is slightly less useful in team deathmatch games (with no support classes). Less useful still in TDM games WITH support classes (that credit assists). And has about as much impact on the actual outcome of an NS(/2) game as a wind check does while playing mini-golf. It might make you feel more 'pro', or give you a slight idea about where things might lean. But otherwise?
It just makes you look like a complete tool.
its merely a reflection of one aspect of a team's effectiveness - consider the game is about PvP and PvE , and is a poor measurement to be considered an indicator of much else.
i'm like the 20th person in these 8 pages of thread to say this.. i know.. but i just keep seeing posts from you throwing out "mindless metric for cs fratboy" argument. I'm sorry but others have expressed clearly many times already here how you are just reaching an extremely presumptuous claim everytime.
if four fades K/D ratio are high, its clear just from that scoreboard to deduce that map control is beginning to lean in favor of aliens at that point - at the very least they probably arent losing ground if they are only defending. but see, it still tells you <u>something</u>.
Thats all this thread was saying i believe, to not just discount it as its reflective of <u>SOMETHING </u>, still.
We all get your viewpoint on the issue, too, i don't think anyone here is accurately fitting your "Fratboy" role and saying "K/D is my #1 measurement to determine how awesome my team/ i am, BRO!" so i think you can lay that stereotype to rest.
Thats all this thread was saying i believe, to not just discount it as its reflective of <u>SOMETHING </u>, still.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree. What I think this thread was trying to show is that KD actually <b>accomplishes</b> something, as if it is the killing itself which gains the aliens that control over the map. What most of the people here are saying, I believe, is that this simply is not the case. It is not the killing which gains a team map control, it is map control which increases a teams ability to kill.