201 build is unbalanced
Aaron_Merric
Join Date: 2012-03-20 Member: 149014Members
Join Date: 2012-03-20 Member: 149014Members
Comments
anecdotal evidence, but every game (5) i've played, aliens won.
It is to be expected...unlinking lifeforms to hives is HUGE (and good IMO), but will need some balancing.
edit: 7 games now, all alien wins. One was a close marine win due to their easy access jetpacks, but aliens bumrushed CC and won.
Man have you checked out what they've changed? cost less for marines, cost less for marines and so on
Aliens: less damage, more time to make, and so on
Looks like you've been playing in servers with kick ass aliens ;)
The way it should work, is marines have been buffed directly, with cheaper stuff, while aliens have been buffed indirectly, by simplifying their strategic play.
So, marines get better guns and stuff, but aliens get more options, with good aliens the aliens should do a lot better, but with average players marines should do better.
The thing about a BETA is, everything is in flux. You try things to balance stuff, you change things until you hit the right beats and combos. A game such as NS2 is so complex, it takes time to get balance right. It took NS1 years to get to 3.2, which even then wasn't perfect.
This is why we need people such as yourself to help us. Tell us WHAT isn't balanced. Just stating that it isn't balanced doesn't help us improve the game.
And the Exo is being worked on and will be in the game when it's ready.
This is why we need people such as yourself to help us. Tell us WHAT isn't balanced. Just stating that it isn't balanced doesn't help us improve the game.
And the Exo is being worked on and will be in the game when it's ready.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not only this but many things are still to be added (such as upgrades for gorge), so ya they're not gonna make it 100 percent balanced now just to add more stuff then start over again haha
Plus this is BETA... if you didn't learn from last build (lerk having bile bomb) they're testing things..
You posted this a few hours after the patch was live. Why do people do this?
The onos however having gore <b>stun</b> on one hive seems a bit problematic...!
Is this game really unbalanced? This might seem really vague so let me try to explain this.
Let's compare two strategy games such as Dawn of War (the first) and Starcraft Broodwar.
Dawn of War offered a lot of different races. Nine in total if you had all the expansions installed. That game clearly had balancing issues. Some races was just stronger than others. For example, the Necrons, this race that was superior to all others upon launch, no question about it. A good necron player couldn't be defeated but would just steamroll all the others. No race really required you to be extra skilful at the game but some races still possessed a blatant advantage over others. This was due to how these races was built from the core.
Now let's take a game like BroodWar. It had three races and I believe that most people would agree that this game is really well balanced. However, to a newcomer it might not seem so. Why? Because some races are a little bit more difficult to play as in all fairness. Doing good with zerg required you to macro much more, constantly producing new stuff, keeping up the pressure. All races offers the same capabilities to win as the other, but some requires you to be much more involved to do good.
These examples are not from a pro level standard. But basic public play. I can reckon what I've said is not valid at that level of play.
So my question should be rephrased as this.
Is the game really unbalanced? Do the marines have the same capabilities to win as the aliens, and vice versa but one is more difficult to play as.
This is a sincere question I have, it isn't really relevant to this new patch but more in general. Again, please don't take this in the wrong way, I don't mean to offend anyone, I'm being completely honest here.
I really love this community.
At best, the sides could be so different as to be incommensurable, as in the skills required by the different sides are so different that it's hard to declare one player 'better' than the other. It'd be like comparing archers and random people with guns in a shooting contest, even if the gunmen kill all the archers, it's hard to declare them 'better' because the archers require far more training. They won, but does it make them better soldiers?
If one side is statistically less likely to be playable by your playerbase, it's a weaker side, because 'less likely to be playable by your playerbase' is how you work out whether a side is weak for any reason. If lots of people can't play it, it's considered weak. The ability of some players to win games with it doesn't make it less weak, or at the very least, there shouldn't be sudden jump from 'very few people play it therefore it's weak' to 'some people can play it therefore it's skilful and you're all noobs'.
As far I am aware all units in a game such as Starcraft can be countered in a "rock/paper/scissor" manner. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. With this considered one could deem something to be overpowered due to fact because it is more difficult to use. Although, I would say it is easier to claim a team to be overpowered in a game such as this due to a higher chance of human errors and the dynamic between you and your teammates.
In a game such as Starcraft all races have the same tools of victory, but some are more difficult to use. Does this make the game inbalanced? I don't think there is a definite answer to that. In the end it all boils down to your personal opinion on what is to be considered OP. I am really lenient myself and even if a game blatantly is OP I wont reall mind it. Just makes it more fun and challanging.
<b>Is it okay to talk about this in this thread though? I know that I kinda took the initiative and asked this question, but I didn't think it would be so fun to talk about it. I really don't want to hijack the thread for people that wants to discuss the new build.</b>
More simply explained, NS2 has never had a level of balance comparable to a released starcraft, except a couple times where balance swung around 45%/55% for either team. The balance changes are often stylistic, such as the "smoothening" of the tech trees for each race in this latest build. They're generally sweeping changes which grossly sway the balance of the game in either direction, usually pretty evenly across the entire distribution of player skill. New features are being implemented all the time that undo any fine balance that may be achieved. So yes, I would say that the races are truly unbalanced, because the game hasn't been developed into a proper arena for effort put towards a balanced product to persist.
That excuse is just wrong...
only because marines play bad, aliens are not op.
take a look at the changelog, marines got a lot also very quick jetpacks...
but flying through the map like flies, don't let marines win the game.
i also saw 2 marines with shotguns and jp, rush one hive after 5 seconds it was dead, very alien was to late.
But i am sure, the crying will continue...
<!--quoteo(post=1916918:date=Mar 24 2012, 04:42 AM:name=Arkanti)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arkanti @ Mar 24 2012, 04:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916918"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You posted this a few hours after the patch was live. Why do people do this?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Trolling, like the most "new" people do here...
I can understand its hard the first time to play agianst aliens, but you have to learn how to play marines.
its not just like in every shooter, shoot them and you win.
You have to be tactical.
I realy hope UWE don't notice the complainer.
Played Marine, won --> players cry Marines OP
....
1 or 2 players that play the game for over 1 year against newer players will almost always result in a win for the team that has thise 1-2 players that know everything in this game.
IMO this patch is, beside the onos bug, with the current weapons perfectly balanced.
It just missing all the coming features.
I can't understand PPL, that play the gane for some days, have to cry about balance. PPL that can't really use Walljump, that can't fly a lerk, that think a Fade is OP, who don't know all the little things on a map,, who walkbackwards, that attack a marine from behind not moving at all and then cry that jump killed em, who stand in a group instead of taking strategical position, that don't use the minimap,etc.
You need to play the game more, play it on a local Server to traing walljump, flying, etc. And after you know everything that is important and you also can execute those things in combat, then you can talk about balance.
You can't fly a F/A 18 in war against "insert country", just because you flew 10h in the simulator.
Why not switch place on Cavern and Ore? Feels so bad when its a warzone.
Feels like for the marine team Cavern is crapy place to be in. Its all about crushing machine room. U take it and u win, u fail and u lose.
And in 200 it was pain in the ass to be alien cuz of ARC sniping and now its even easyr to do it.