Counterstrike Selection 2 Source 4 Dead
Dreiraben
Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146702Members
Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146702Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Please stop dumbing the game down</div>I have played the 201 patch for some hours now and had a little chat with a few other gamers on random Servers and we mostly came to the same conclusion, that the new build, gameplaywise, is a real disappointment.
as fancy as the new jellycysttessxtures and the new Hud looks as poor has the gameexperience gotten. The whole game has been dumped down to a mix of L4D and CSS, the only thing that was missing was a "press left Mouse to shoot"-Banner.
F.e. there is no real need for Hiveexpansion anymore, since youll get all lifeforms as soon as you can afford them which means you just try to get a few RTs wait 7-10 minutes and then Onosrush the hell out of the marines, while they on the other hand have no chance to prevent this.
Since everything is so cheap losing a building doesnt make any difference youll just place a new one. Techs and Evolutions are just spamed out one after another. Due to the new "fastpaced" gameexperience the game has just lost what made it so special and enjoyable. While a good round with decent players on both sides could last like an hour now the average round wont last much longer then 10-15 minutes.
Before winning the game felt good, since you really had to fight for it: win a room here lose a hive there it just was a real fight, unlike now where you spawn, spam some techs and rush the enemy base without really having to fight for rooms and Restowers. The tactical gameplay, which by my understanding was the coreelement of that game, feels more like optional now, there is almost no difference between the three phases of the game anymore and it just feels like any other No-Brainershooter out there. I hope the guys are just experiementing here, because i really dont want to play CSS with Alienskins and L4D-mechanics ("Come here little Monkey! i mean User! go there and then do this and press this button aaaaaand you won")
as fancy as the new jellycysttessxtures and the new Hud looks as poor has the gameexperience gotten. The whole game has been dumped down to a mix of L4D and CSS, the only thing that was missing was a "press left Mouse to shoot"-Banner.
F.e. there is no real need for Hiveexpansion anymore, since youll get all lifeforms as soon as you can afford them which means you just try to get a few RTs wait 7-10 minutes and then Onosrush the hell out of the marines, while they on the other hand have no chance to prevent this.
Since everything is so cheap losing a building doesnt make any difference youll just place a new one. Techs and Evolutions are just spamed out one after another. Due to the new "fastpaced" gameexperience the game has just lost what made it so special and enjoyable. While a good round with decent players on both sides could last like an hour now the average round wont last much longer then 10-15 minutes.
Before winning the game felt good, since you really had to fight for it: win a room here lose a hive there it just was a real fight, unlike now where you spawn, spam some techs and rush the enemy base without really having to fight for rooms and Restowers. The tactical gameplay, which by my understanding was the coreelement of that game, feels more like optional now, there is almost no difference between the three phases of the game anymore and it just feels like any other No-Brainershooter out there. I hope the guys are just experiementing here, because i really dont want to play CSS with Alienskins and L4D-mechanics ("Come here little Monkey! i mean User! go there and then do this and press this button aaaaaand you won")
Comments
also, for ease of reading, please format your posts so they aren't walls of text. thanks
TLDR: Pull your head out of your ass please.
Sorry what? I think you need to slow down..
You are of course entitled to your opinion, however much it differers from others. I don't think the game has been 'dumbed down', none of the tech has been removed. All the tech trees are still intact. Some costs have changes a bit and hives have been unlinked from lifeforms like it was in NS1 3.2.
and why is that?
You are of course entitled to your opinion, however much it differers from others. I don't think the game has been 'dumbed down', none of the tech has been removed. All the tech trees are still intact. Some costs have changes a bit and hives have been unlinked from lifeforms like it was in NS1 3.2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well i just can talk about my experience and that of others i play with, and thats what i did
it would help if you had an argument with supporting evidence.
for example: i do not like X because of Y, which you can see always leads to Z. etc.
else, its very difficult to understand exactly WHAT it is that you dislike??
also, that "useless" lerk is meant to be a harassing life form only, not a combatant like a skulk. in and out.
edit: i agree with Gadx ^ i LOVE this patch!
I don't know why some people are whining so much. There have been big changes.... yes. Are there balance issues? Sure
But for the most part, Marines and Aliens seem to win and lose at around equal rates, maybe marines a bit more.
The new Lerk Bile Bomb is great. its powerful but not over powered and makes the Lerk worth 30 res.
Blink and Bile Bomb are big incentives to get 2nd hive.
And the game as a whole "feels" a lot like NS1 now with lifeforms being unchained to Hives.
The new banners are great, especially when considering that many new people will be playing it at PAX East which is in a couple weeks.
Don't think of it as "dumbing down the game" think of it as "making it more informative and responsive and visually appealing. Because it is.
I wasn't too thrilled with the banner idea at first but after playing awhile I think its quite useful to know the exact moment a power node goes down or an upgrade is available or what hive or CC is under attack and marines/aliens are more likely to follow orders or know where to go.
I'm not saying this build is perfect, one thing that bothers me a bit is fades without blink. Marines are able to upgrade too fast now.
Timing in this game is not yet perfected but its a beta....
Not only is it a beta, but its the kind of beta where you get to play the game in developmental stages that no other game company would dare let you.
Now I just wish gorge would get some more fun toys and Fades got a slight buff. Granted that ppl should only go fade with 2nd hive because fade without blink is useless but thats my point. Paper Onos is still really damn strong. Paper Fade is about as vulnerable as a skulk as it lacks speed and the ability to climb on walls and is a larger target.
BUT... like I said, they'll balance it. They always do.
SoOOoOOo...
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL8e2ujXe8g" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL8e2ujXe8g</a>
it would help if you had an argument with supporting evidence.
for example: i do not like X because of Y, which you can see always leads to Z. etc.
else, its very difficult to understand exactly WHAT it is that you dislike??
also, that "useless" lerk is meant to be a harassing life form only, not a combatant like a skulk. in and out.
edit: i agree with Gadx ^ i LOVE this patch!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i ment fade, sry. And I gave some examples about things i dont like in 201. I find it quite interesting tho, that most humans are not capable of arguing and rather try to invalidate the author or his post instead (I dont mean you necccesarily but most replies in general). I just posted this to give the unknown world guys my feedback concerning the development of the game. This is my personal belief and please (this is for anybody) dont feel attacked or in the need to defend yourself if this opinion correlates to your own...
I don't know why some people are whining so much. There have been big changes.... yes. Are there balance issues? Sure
But for the most part, Marines and Aliens seem to win and lose at around equal rates, maybe marines a bit more.
The new Lerk Bile Bomb is great. its powerful but not over powered and makes the Lerk worth 30 res.
Blink and Bile Bomb are big incentives to get 2nd hive.
And the game as a whole "feels" a lot like NS1 now with lifeforms being unchained to Hives.
The new banners are great, especially when considering that many new people will be playing it at PAX East which is in a couple weeks.
Don't think of it as "dumbing down the game" think of it as "making it more informative and responsive and visually appealing. Because it is.
I wasn't too thrilled with the banner idea at first but after playing awhile I think its quite useful to know the exact moment a power node goes down or an upgrade is available or what hive or CC is under attack and marines/aliens are more likely to follow orders or know where to go.
Well sure but to balance the gmae they need proper feedback of the community, that was what im trying to do
I'm not saying this build is perfect, one thing that bothers me a bit is fades without blink. Marines are able to upgrade too fast now.
Timing in this game is not yet perfected but its a beta....
Not only is it a beta, but its the kind of beta where you get to play the game in developmental stages that no other game company would dare let you.
Now I just wish gorge would get some more fun toys and Fades got a slight buff. Granted that ppl should only go fade with 2nd hive because fade without blink is useless but thats my point. Paper Onos is still really damn strong. Paper Fade is about as vulnerable as a skulk as it lacks speed and the ability to climb on walls and is a larger target.
BUT... like I said, they'll balance it. They always do.
SoOOoOOo...
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL8e2ujXe8g" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL8e2ujXe8g</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure they are working on it. But to fix the game they need feedback from the community, so i tried to do my part to get a game we all in general and i especially can enjoy
Its more the font and the captain obvious banners that can't be turned off. This doesnt equate to dumbed down gameplay.
to this I reply with this
<!--quoteo(post=1916906:date=Mar 23 2012, 10:23 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Mar 23 2012, 10:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916906"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Dreiraben:
it would help if you had an argument with supporting evidence.
for example: i do not like X because of Y, which you can see always leads to Z. etc.
else, its very difficult to understand exactly WHAT it is that you dislike??
also, that "useless" lerk is meant to be a harassing life form only, not a combatant like a skulk. in and out.
edit: i agree with Gadx ^ i LOVE this patch!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is why it sounds like whining Dreiraben.
Pick out some specific points you don't enjoy, explain why you don't and how you think it would be better.
For example...
The Lerk is much better now than it was in b200, with the introduction of bilebomb. Bilebomb can force marines to beacon and even lock a couple marines in base with welders which eliminates them from combat and hence makes the front line for skulks and fades easier.
Server Room's new design is great and aesthetically it reminds me of NS1 but the Lerk has too many hiding places in Server Room. The Lerk can very easily bilebomb and fly around server room until the base nearly goes down. The bile bomb itself has great damage, prefectly balanced in my opinion, but the Server Room could use less hidey holes in the ceiling.
The obvious text bugs are benign and might encourage voice chat more until its fixed but for now in order to type you have to put your words in quotation marks.
Texts have also disappeared for certain structures.
Fade is too weak in the early game and their lack of mobility compared to the lerk and skulk make them big beefy targets. I guess they should either receive a small buff to shadow step OR Fades should now stick together in groups with skulks and can then solo more when blink becomes available.
There is a bug where if you have an upgrade (ie: carapace) and try to get another upgrade (ie: regen) your upgrades become reset, 2 Pres is deducted from you and you have no upgrades. But when you upgrade two upgrades at the same time the issue doesn't come up.
As far as gameplay dynamics I have no complaints so far except that there still needs to be easier ways to kill jetpackers. Especially now since JP is 10 res and to get it is so much cheaper.
Despite some bugs and possible balancing issues that WILL be resolved. Build 201 is a VERY SOLID build. With performance enhancements and map changes galore.
I'm glad to see catalyze has been balanced as well.
And hit-reg is amazing, maybe almost too good.
Its making it a little too easy to die as a skulk or lerk now.
Overall, AMAZING JOB UWE, great artwork and style on the new HUDs. Unchaining lifeforms from Hives makes this game feel very NS1-like but is clearly feels like a new game too.
Then there are the yearly Call of Duty releases which have come to represent everything dumbed down about gaming. The trend is for games to be really, REALLY DUMBED DOWN but have REALLY GREAT GRAPHICS with really small environments. We don't want that. We waited 5 years for Skyrim, 2 or 3 years for Dragon Age II and Mass Effect sequels, but we waited 10 YEARS for Natural Selection 2. So we are anxious.
Just don't DUMB DOWN the game and we will love you.
I've played Build 201 for a few hours now and think it is definitely better than 200 (but it would be hard NOT to improve on 200). Build 201 plays a little more like NS1 and Onos and Fades have to selectively attack structures (take out AA, arms lab, etc) rather than just rush the Comm Station every time. So that is interesting.
However, I have not seen marines win in Build 201 unless aliens are severely handicapped from the start (no commander, bad team, etc.) and marines are exceptionally organized and coordinated. I do like that it seems to return a bit to NS1 style gameplay (you get all lifeforms but not the secondary attacks until second and third hives). Resource towers/extractors/harvestors are MUCH more important now and destroying them is a major factor in preventing 10 onoseses from ending the game. But there is still some gameplay stagnation and marines sort of end up stuck in base over time. I think after people get used to the new play it will improve.
Current maps like Summit (which is a good map) play fast and are very small relative to NS1 maps. I believe we need bigger maps.
Totaly agree!
It's a completely harmless message, I don't get why people take so much offense to stuff like this. I find it helpful, especially for aliens who have to click manually to spawn faster.
If you don't like it, chances are there will be a way to turn it off in the future.
For everyone in the 'mainstream gamer' audience, it's another way this game looks appealing to them, so that they buy it and UWE gets to keep making awesome stuff.
<!--quoteo(post=1917023:date=Mar 24 2012, 10:18 AM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Mar 24 2012, 10:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1917023"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's a completely harmless message, I don't get why people take so much offense to stuff like this. I find it helpful, especially for aliens who have to click manually to spawn faster.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's helpful to me because I don't want to read the rail-thin white text for the actual spawning time etc. The banners are pretty much always easy to read in any environment because they have an opaque background.
Played a silenced lerk for hours yesterday and I'm telling you, it was a FREAKING RAMPAGE. Nothing like sticking to a dark wall and keeping em guessing why their hp is suddently dropping.
Played a silenced lerk for hours yesterday and I'm telling you, it was a FREAKING RAMPAGE. Nothing like sticking to a dark wall and keeping em guessing why their hp is suddently dropping.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah lerk is good now - flight is better, and everything follows from flight
I still miss the spike shotgun, but when the class gets some more abilities to fit the new 'damage over time' theme it will be nice
you can hate or ignore these people but if we just wait bit longer we might replace the older generation with the new. then the new generation wouldn't know any better, and finally see how great this might be.
you can hate or ignore these people but if we just wait bit longer we might replace the older generation with the new. then the new generation wouldn't know any better, and finally see how great this might be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if the 'old generation' is the lowest common denominator of ns1 players who just want UWE to make the same game and can't provide any reasoning about anything....I'll take the new folk :)
That and the big 'x onos' y' kill banners, its already displayed in the top right corner, I'd rather spend my dying seconds getting recon on the area I died in or reason I died so next life I have some sort of plan, not looking at pretty icons. I know I got onosed, its big and hard to miss when its smacking one all over the show.