New server room
Imbalanxd
Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
<div class="IPBDescription">and NS2 map design in general</div>I don't know if anyone has any pictures of the new server room on ns2_tram (please post if you do), but wow, its amazing. Call it imbalanced or hard to navigate, I'm just talking visually. It really is aesthetically great, and this got me thinking about something I've noticed since the beta maps started coming out.
Now don't get me wrong, the maps are great, very well made, in fact natural-selection maps have always been great, over the top great. Even though looking back at ns1 maps on the half-life engine kind of makes me cringe, they were head and shoulders above any other maps at the time. They were so well made that it was unbelievable that such creations were even possible in the half life engine. Certainly no other mod had had maps so revolutionary in design and atmosphere. But in ns2, while the maps are, as I said, very well made, it seems like they have been lacking in that over the top architecture. Room are well designed, but they seem bare. They have no crazy architectural set pieces that just make your jaw drop. I feel that the new server room hive really has accomplished this though.
So, my question is, are the current maps so called "place holders"? I'm sure the final creations will have very similar structure and layout, but will the architecture in each room be vastly different? Or is this just a specific change to server room that won't also occur in the rest of the map, and indeed the other currently played maps?
Now don't get me wrong, the maps are great, very well made, in fact natural-selection maps have always been great, over the top great. Even though looking back at ns1 maps on the half-life engine kind of makes me cringe, they were head and shoulders above any other maps at the time. They were so well made that it was unbelievable that such creations were even possible in the half life engine. Certainly no other mod had had maps so revolutionary in design and atmosphere. But in ns2, while the maps are, as I said, very well made, it seems like they have been lacking in that over the top architecture. Room are well designed, but they seem bare. They have no crazy architectural set pieces that just make your jaw drop. I feel that the new server room hive really has accomplished this though.
So, my question is, are the current maps so called "place holders"? I'm sure the final creations will have very similar structure and layout, but will the architecture in each room be vastly different? Or is this just a specific change to server room that won't also occur in the rest of the map, and indeed the other currently played maps?
Comments
Mineshaft has some pretty fantastical areas don't you think? The cavern with the waterfall, and those caves with the huge drills. If they went much much further then the players and the structures would seem too insignificant.
There are many community maps in progress that'll wow people with their vast rooms and epic architecture, and no doubt quite a few of them will become official maps in time. Check out the mapping section.
What's so different with 201's tram Server Room btw?
edit: I didnt get it wrong. I just think you used the wrong words, but at least by pointing out that i got it wrong is another addition for you to take away the bad taste of your statement. ;)
Mineshaft has some pretty fantastical areas don't you think? The cavern with the waterfall, and those caves with the huge drills. If they went much much further then the players and the structures would seem too insignificant.
There are many community maps in progress that'll wow people with their vast rooms and epic architecture, and no doubt quite a few of them will become official maps in time. Check out the mapping section.
What's so different with 201's tram Server Room btw?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To me its the structural complexity. The "busyness" of the architecture, no bland walls or empty open spaces. Compare that to warehouse, which does the job fine, but is essentially a big open room, there is a startling difference in my eyes.
Yes I think cavern is another very beautiful room, but in a different way. Because its a "natural" scene, it doesn't inspire the same architectural awe, at least for me. It is more made up by what objects are in it. For example, compare an empty cavern to one overrun by alien structures and infection, or indeed even strobing marine structutes. Though yes I agree, cavern is another amazing creation.
<!--quoteo(post=1916150:date=Mar 22 2012, 03:55 AM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Mar 22 2012, 03:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916150"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Asking if they are placeholders, lol - i dont think there is a way to not get this wrong... what a slap into the face of the mappers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then there clearly is a way to get it wrong, because you did.
The architecture has the same issue, before, you could imagine that those weird shaped walls could be anything, now you need a higher level of detail and you can't really make it look good unless it's sort of believable, which makes it harder to come up with that kind of stuff...
Anyways, discussing aesthetics, I'd say tram is the best looking map currently, or at least, I like it the most. Not to say the other ones do not look good, but I love tram's style a lot.
Look at some of the community maps for more experimental designs:
tengu
<a href="http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/8183/2012031100007.jpg" target="_blank">http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/8183/2012031100007.jpg</a>
<a href="http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/1649/2012031100009.jpg" target="_blank">http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/1649/2012031100009.jpg</a>
rigging
<a href="http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/4495/2012031900001.jpg" target="_blank">http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/4495/2012031900001.jpg</a>
<a href="http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/900/2011070600008.jpg" target="_blank">http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/900/2011070600008.jpg</a>
<a href="http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5654/2011070600006.jpg" target="_blank">http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5654/2011070600006.jpg</a>
<a href="http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/9091/2011070600014.jpg" target="_blank">http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/9091/2011070600014.jpg</a>
nucleus
<a href="http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/5774/2012010900010.jpg" target="_blank">http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/5774/2012010900010.jpg</a>
goliath
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/YddS9l.jpg" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/YddS9l.jpg</a>
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/p8CI7l.jpg" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/p8CI7l.jpg</a>
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/hDukYl.jpg" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/hDukYl.jpg</a>
Asking if they are placeholders, lol - i dont think there is a way to not get this wrong... what a slap into the face of the mappers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then there clearly is a way to get it wrong, because you did.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, he got it right.
No, he got it right.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ye, the person who is apparently being insulting has said he isn't being insulting, but is actually wrong. That's called projection.
Look at some of the community maps for more experimental designs:
tengu
rigging
nucleus
goliath<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
oh man some of those rooms are huge, skulk deathtraps :O
If its only apparently insulting depends on your definition of placeholder, for me a placeholder in mapping is very basic geometry - quick and dirty work without much love for details since it will be replaced later on anyway. (and i guess a lot ppl would agree to something similar to this)
But since there is no official definition for a placeholder in mapping (at least i cant find one)... sure its projection if you want. (can we stop this penis talk now?)
I really like the changes. Tram does look even more awesome. Sadly the only real critics I had with the old version persist in the new version. Server room looks badass now, but its still gg for both, aliens and marines, if they have the bad luck to spawn there. The update didt not change anything on the layout. Every resnode is still way to far away to be reached and hold from server room. In the worst case, as seen in this playtest, the other team starts in warehouse. this team then can easily capture the whole map while also pressuring server room. So basicly the game is over within 5-10 min.
Maybe deactivate server room as a spawn opportunity for now until it is really changed layout wise?
If its only apparently insulting depends on your definition of placeholder, for me a placeholder in mapping is very basic geometry - quick and dirty work without much love for details since it will be replaced later on anyway. (and i guess a lot ppl would agree to something similar to this)
But since there is no official definition for a placeholder in mapping (at least i cant find one)... sure its projection if you want. (can we stop this penis talk now?)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To me, placeholder means thing which holds the place of something else.
Changes in a map are common. A support beam here, a prop there, maybe some more interesting brushwork along a flat surface. Very rarely however is there such a complete and mind blowing overhaul as has happened in server room. I just want to know if this is a step by step process that is going to happen throughout the map, or if server room was just a special case.
Well what am I supposed to do? Be robotically objective and be capable of accepting all aesthetics as equal, even those which don't appeal to me? I'm only human.
The new server room is an improvement. Not just because I think it looks better, but because the level designer himself decided to use change it and make it how it is now, which means how it is now is in some way superior to how it was before. I want to know if the change was always intended, but until now incomplete (ie, a place-holder), or if the creator just decided that it needed to be changed due to certain circumstances (not a place-holder). And, if the former is true, is their a similar plan for the rest of the map, and indeed other maps.
Not true, there was a res node added right outside server in the tunnel, where the old Warehouse side door entrances used to be.
--Cory
Edit: I found this:
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17105373/Natural%20Selection%202/replayGUI/NS2%20server%20room%20and%20marine%20HuD.png" target="_blank">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17105373/Natural%2...arine%20HuD.png</a>
I encourage you to go back and read what I wrote, and check to see if I even hinted that that's what you should do.
However, in answer to your broader question, Server Room and the areas around it were changed in response to playtesting. So no, the rest of the NS2 mapping effort is not purely placeholder although it is all subject to change based on how it works out in playtests. With more complete maps lilke Tram, most of the changes that are being made are responsive - that is, they're being made to solve a problem or improve something. So the bottom line is that you can't expect things to change in line with your highly specific aesthetic response to Server Room, but you can expect them to change based on continued playtesting.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/9yytah.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok sorry for my rant then :). Must have missed it. Looking forward to seeing how it plays. :)
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/9yytah.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that map looks a lot better balanced.
Andrew covered this but i'll just reiterate; Tram will continue to have its layout assessed for balance and playability, and we expect significant changes will occur. Server room is still quite weak in terms of nearby prospects (especially as a starting point) and so that is something that could be addressed in the near term, along with other issues.
it's not only the server room itself, though. i really like the pathway towards warehouse, the broken one.
and i feel the way between logistics and shipping and between logistics and repair room are nicer, too. the updates around shipping feel good as well. great job all in all!
can't wait to see what other new jaw-droppers await us in the future across all the maps :)
<a href="http://imgur.com/a/0ngwW#0" target="_blank">http://imgur.com/a/0ngwW#0</a>