The essence of the game has been lost in b201
nunofgs
Join Date: 2005-03-18 Member: 45717Members
Join Date: 2005-03-18 Member: 45717Members
Hear me out guys.
Build 201 is very fast-paced. You can't deny that.
Because of this, the following is happening:
* The game has become more of a fast-paced FPS
* Comms are mostly worried about very QUICKLY gathering res nodes, instead of picking a strategy on where to expand on the map. The team with the most early resources will surely win.
* If you'll notice, <b>most comms won't even chat anymore or give any kind of direction</b>. Before this build, I saw comms get ejected for not having a microphone! Now all you need is someone half-decent at researching and quickly dropping structures to win.
<b>To me, a fundamental aspect of the game has been lost.</b> If you ask me what the essence of this game was (and NS1 too!), it wasn't the aliens or the marines or even the RTS aspect. It was the way it <i>encouraged</i> you to connect with other players and actually come up with a strategy. That strategy might not even require you to shoot. You could just be a builder/welder. Everyone had their role. Now? you HAVE to run and shoot. I feel like I don't even have time to build a res node anymore.
Why waste 10 or 15 seconds destroying a cyst? that's 15 seconds of exposure you are giving the other team.
What kept pulling me back to this game was that warm feeling of accomplishment when you and your team were successful in organizing a winning strategy. That feeling is completely gone.
I don't want to sound bitter but this game has become more of a run-and-shoot FPS where you don't have to talk to anyone and just play a few rounds. Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad game if that's the direction it's going, but it won't be a GREAT game. Not to me at least.
Build 201 is very fast-paced. You can't deny that.
Because of this, the following is happening:
* The game has become more of a fast-paced FPS
* Comms are mostly worried about very QUICKLY gathering res nodes, instead of picking a strategy on where to expand on the map. The team with the most early resources will surely win.
* If you'll notice, <b>most comms won't even chat anymore or give any kind of direction</b>. Before this build, I saw comms get ejected for not having a microphone! Now all you need is someone half-decent at researching and quickly dropping structures to win.
<b>To me, a fundamental aspect of the game has been lost.</b> If you ask me what the essence of this game was (and NS1 too!), it wasn't the aliens or the marines or even the RTS aspect. It was the way it <i>encouraged</i> you to connect with other players and actually come up with a strategy. That strategy might not even require you to shoot. You could just be a builder/welder. Everyone had their role. Now? you HAVE to run and shoot. I feel like I don't even have time to build a res node anymore.
Why waste 10 or 15 seconds destroying a cyst? that's 15 seconds of exposure you are giving the other team.
What kept pulling me back to this game was that warm feeling of accomplishment when you and your team were successful in organizing a winning strategy. That feeling is completely gone.
I don't want to sound bitter but this game has become more of a run-and-shoot FPS where you don't have to talk to anyone and just play a few rounds. Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad game if that's the direction it's going, but it won't be a GREAT game. Not to me at least.
Comments
It's been non-stop shooting, and it gets boring. There are orders, and team work, like in previous builds but there's no time to build up areas. I don't know why exactly this is happening but it is!
I dunno what game your playing but getting fast rez is the whole pot of marines..... That is a part of the strategy, and then to lock down hive spots.
And as for comm's not giving orders. He/she might be new and also you should know what to do. Get rez, kill aliens, lock down tech points.
Im a lil lost on this post.
Kinda this, 'grab all the resources all the time' has always been the mantra of the game, and I very rarely see marines building up secondary bases when they could be pressing the attack. I'm not sure what's supposed to be different.
Game is really about holding RTs, stopping 2nd hives is more of a secondary objective.
201 makes the game very dynamic which is an amazing step forward.
insecurity. so many so called veterans and self proclaimed
ns2 gurus are becoming somewhat too conservative and
resistant to new ideas an change. it's almost a trend and
the cool thing to be against the whole notion of improvement
and change, often referring to ns1 as a valid source of argument.
all this said, these man children are against experiments and
the very thought of anything new,
Its a freaking BETA people ! where the whole idea is to be radical and
experimental. these people are counter productive towards
the potential of this game. people, understand that you are
catering the beta towards a brilliant final version of the game,
not the other way around. and yes I am new to the ns2 forum,
but I grew up on ns1 along with the specialists mod lol.
but seriously who are all these self entitled people defining
what a beta game should or shouldn't be.
As opposed to fades doing the same thing?
2 hives is still serious yes but marines should be better off on the whole, given that it should be significantly easier for them to tech up to combat alien lifeforms.
Do we aim to get jetpacks by 10 mins in?
Do we aim to get jetpacks by 10 mins in?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Onos on hive 1 is a bug. So right now poop your pants and spray!
"Unchained alien lifeforms from hives. Now Fade is available at Hive 1 and Onos at Hive 2. However, not all abilities will be available (ie, Blink only available with 2 hives, etc.)" - dev notes
Instead of trying to fight over each room we just camp outside their hive with armory and w8 for the early ARCs.
insecurity. so many so called veterans and self proclaimed
ns2 gurus are becoming somewhat too conservative and
resistant to new ideas an change. it's almost a trend and
the cool thing to be against the whole notion of improvement
and change, often referring to ns1 as a valid source of argument.
all this said, these man children are against experiments and
the very thought of anything new,
Its a freaking BETA people ! where the whole idea is to be radical and
experimental. these people are counter productive towards
the potential of this game. people, understand that you are
catering the beta towards a brilliant final version of the game,
not the other way around. and yes I am new to the ns2 forum,
but I grew up on ns1 along with the specialists mod lol.
but seriously who are all these self entitled people defining
what a beta game should or shouldn't be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The name of this particular forum is "IDEAS AND SUGGESTIONS" so if you have a problem with people posting IDEAS AND SUGGESTIONS then maybe this isn't the forum for you?
Also, if you have ever been let down by a game's sequel then you'd at least understand why people are so anxious about NS2.
And I see what you did there. You used the key troll buzzword "entitled gamers." WHAT YOU DID THERE, I SEE IT!
Oh wait, you also used the term "man-children" multiple times....
As for the original poster and Build 201, I think it is important to try because the basic rules are becoming closer to NS1 so we can see how it plays out in NS2. I have won as marines but only when the alien team is really bad. Otherwise, it is hard to hold our resource towers over time.
Also, if you have ever been let down by a game's sequel then you'd at least understand why people are so anxious about NS2.
And I see what you did there. You used the key troll buzzword "entitled gamers." WHAT YOU DID THERE, I SEE IT!
Oh wait, you also used the term "man-children" multiple times....
As for the original poster and Build 201, I think it is important to try because the basic rules are becoming closer to NS1 so we can see how it plays out in NS2. I have won as marines but only when the alien team is really bad. Otherwise, it is hard to hold our resource towers over time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so what exactly is this thread suggesting and proposing?
and yes self entitled gamers, i am not a 'troll'. please do
not try and discredit my post by throwing 'troll' in there.
and yes 'man children', exactly what half these people are.
if you look at my posts, i posted plenty of idea and suggestion
and gave logical input. i can tell you one thing, ###### and
whining isn't exactly an idea or a suggestion, matter of fact
it is counter productive towards progress. now how is whatever
you posted correctly responding to my post? all i see is ad-hominem
fallacies.
and yes self entitled gamers, i am not a 'troll'. please do
not try and discredit my post by throwing 'troll' in there.
and yes 'man children', exactly what half these people are.
if you look at my posts, i posted plenty of idea and suggestion
and gave logical input. i can tell you one thing, ###### and
whining isn't exactly an idea or a suggestion, matter of fact
it is counter productive towards progress. now how is whatever
you posted correctly responding to my post? all i see is ad-hominem
fallacies.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You claim I am using ad-hominem attacks, right after you get done calling everyone in the forum "******** man-children, whiners, and self-entitled"
Then you state that you are giving "logical input" that supports "progress."
You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
You are trying too hard. You need to blame Obama more for everything, maybe start spewing epithets and other offensive language, and then maybe more people will bite.
This definitely deserves some long term consideration, even if it would be a post-release content idea.
Then you state that you are giving "logical input" that supports "progress."
You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
You are trying too hard. You need to blame Obama more for everything, maybe start spewing epithets and other offensive language, and then maybe more people will bite.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wasn't targeting any specific individual, based on argument.
I am labeling the people that very well in fact do ###### about
every single build that comes out represents `broken game`
and usually it's the same people complaining about a beta
not meeting up to their expectations. its a new game being
brought up on new game play mechanics, and everytime something
is tweaked, added or changed for experimental purposes
these same group of people are quick to jump on the hate wagon.
this what I was getting at with my first post in this thread, but instead
you got quick to be defensive attacking not the argument but me as a person
as if I was less competent than you are lmfao. gtfo.
if you have ideas that you think may improve the game , then you've come
to the right place to post bout it, but this is the wrong section to be threading
about 'oh this game sucks now wahhh'
<b>Regarding the topic of this thread:</b> I think build 201 is fine except the 1 hive onos has to either be balanced by marine heavy weapons and armor, or moved to 2 hive onos perhaps. The HUD is fine, the notifications are fine. I preferred the third-person deaths though to this splatter first-person deaths. The final game is going to be awesome. I just want it sooner than later.
Cole is right that small changes affect the gameplay dramatically. I feel that this build is playing slightly more like NS1 when the marines have a good team. But the onoseses are just a bit too strong most of the games. Very rarely can marines come back after two good players have onosed.
Marines are VERY fast also, but if aliens are getting early Oniii then it is probably a good thing.
I would love to see a lot of different trials, maybe entirely new classes, weapons, etc.
I dunno what game your playing but getting fast rez is the whole pot of marines..... That is a part of the strategy, and then to lock down hive spots.
And as for comm's not giving orders. He/she might be new and also you should know what to do. Get rez, kill aliens, lock down tech points.
Im a lil lost on this post.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Me too.
It sounds like you just described Natural Selection, so where is the confusion?
I think it comes from having to up the speed of the Marines to cope with the speed of the aliens.
The aliens were dominating the map with their pace, but slowing them down would feel wrong.
I would try slowing the the Marines a little bit, but giving them a bit more health/armour. This would apply to the Marines themselves and their structures.
The aliens would have a little less health/armour, so if they spread themselves too thinly across the map, they are easier to take down.
Only a % or two, just to try and reduce the need for the Marines to have such speed.
There's nothing worse than when a game <a href="http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-118999-1311267262.jpg" target="_blank">artifically drags things out</a> by not allowing players to keep up a fast pace.
Quake (the king of all games forever) duelling always has a very fast pace, but the number of strategic decisions that players make rivals games like Starcraft. It's a matter of understanding how to do all the brainy stuff you want to do in a frantic environment.
The common definition of a beta is that you are <b>feature complete</b>. You're not adding or removing features absent some major, unexpected issue; you're just fixing bugs, balancing, tweaking, trying to get the product polished enough to kick it out the door.
NS2 is an <b>alpha</b>.
It took ~3 years for NS to go from version 1.0, which was an actual beta, to a well polished game. If UWE is aiming for a release this year, the time for bold experiments was ~3 years ago. If they're aiming for a ~2015 release, by all means, take nothing from NS and carry on with the bold experimenting.
UWE is years late because they're trying to do too much at the same time with such a tiny development team.
Also at some point the eggs were a scarce resource and in competitive play the alien team had to adapt the numbers of eggs, being less aggressive when the eggs count was low, marine could also push when they killed a lot of aliens in a battle because of the limited eggs.
I'm not sure how it's working right now, but I have the impression that I never wait for egg or ip.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Strategy and shooter gameplay requires lots of delicate decisions and tradeoffs. Often what makes one game type fun, makes the other less fun. When the two can’t be balanced, give precedence to the shooter. NS1 was a real-time strategy game with a shooter interface, NS2 is a shooter first, and RTS second (more people experience it as a shooter than an RTS).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Feeling like you’re always being attacked, and forgetting about the part where you’re expanding/attacking (and the slippery slope of this perspective)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As I suspected, for better or worse, the frantic pace and run-and-shoot gameplay is here to stay.