Should at least put smash damage back to 150 - 200 to be honest, gore seems to out-dps it now. In addition, there needs to be a proper solution for 1-hive onos rushes, since marines still can't cope with them. (This patch did nothing to address it to be honest)
Possible solutions: - Increase onos res at 1 hive (or in general) - Cut HP/armor at 1 hive (could even make the 1 hive onos smaller to represent this, like a baby onos :D) - Hardcap onos to 1 per team at 1 hive, or a percentage based on total amount of players in a team so it scales (could even do the same for other classes) - Decrease alien starting res (25 is a tad too high anyway and a remnant from ns1) - Reduce p.res inflow. - ...
A single onos is something marines can deal with early to mid game, from 2 onward it becomes nearly impossible however. IMO they should keep the possibility of an early onos (though 8 min on mineshaft is a little too early... 12 - 15 would be more appropriate), since it makes the game very dynamic, but they need to make it a bigger risk-reward and not something 3 - 4 players in the team can do at the same time at that stage of the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1919969:date=Mar 31 2012, 04:12 AM:name=Zuriki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zuriki @ Mar 31 2012, 04:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919969"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Weird bug where I flew through the map, froze and then teleported somewhere nearby where I jetted off from.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1920082:date=Mar 31 2012, 04:42 AM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Mar 31 2012, 04:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920082"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Cut HP/armor at 1 hive (could even make the 1 hive onos smaller to represent this, like a baby onos :D)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1920082:date=Mar 31 2012, 01:42 PM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Mar 31 2012, 01:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920082"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Cut HP/armor at 1 hive (could even make the 1 hive onos smaller to represent this, like a baby onos :D)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That, Sir, is a really great idea. It doesn't only bring dynamics in gameplay, it also makes the visuals more diversified, without having to introduce another alien class. Well, it shouldn't be too small like baby onos...maybe an onos in his youth. later he could become mature by an upgrade. I really like that.
<!--quoteo(post=1920082:date=Mar 31 2012, 04:42 AM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Mar 31 2012, 04:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920082"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Should at least put smash damage back to 150 - 200 to be honest, gore seems to out-dps it now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, this patch has made stomp useless as gore damages buildings faster, and you do not run out of energy nearly as quick.
It was very clearcut before, Gore against marines, Smash against buildings. Now it is not so clearcut since both attacks do damage to both players and buildings
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Phase gates take now always damage from Bile Bomb<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1920049:date=Mar 31 2012, 06:24 AM:name=matso)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (matso @ Mar 31 2012, 06:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920049"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Onos require lots of marines to kill, so in a 4v4 game, you don't have a real chance - yet. You might get a chance once the Exo makes it appearance.
Getting the Onos balance as a hive 1 lifeform will take some time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, you could do it in one pass by just decreasing the overall health.
<!--quoteo(post=1920124:date=Mar 31 2012, 03:45 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Mar 31 2012, 03:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920124"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually, you could do it in one pass by just decreasing the overall health.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Despite the idea of hives affecting armor strength (like in NS1) not being used anymore , I still think it would a nice way to make the onos weaker early in the game. The design document stipulates that it wouldn't be clear enough, so how about making the amount of hives outright changing the amount of armor aliens have, rather than the effectiveness?
<!--quoteo(post=1920082:date=Mar 31 2012, 01:42 PM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Mar 31 2012, 01:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920082"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Cut HP/armor at 1 hive (could even make the 1 hive onos smaller to represent this, like a baby onos :D) - Hardcap onos to 1 per team at 1 hive, or a percentage based on total amount of players in a team so it scales (could even do the same for other classes)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
<!--quoteo(post=1920105:date=Mar 31 2012, 02:56 PM:name=Ryne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ryne @ Mar 31 2012, 02:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920105"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree, this patch has made stomp useless as gore damages buildings faster, and you do not run out of energy nearly as quick.
It was very clearcut before, Gore against marines, Smash against buildings. Now it is not so clearcut since both attacks do damage to both players and buildings<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1919939:date=Mar 31 2012, 03:13 AM:name=wazups2x)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wazups2x @ Mar 31 2012, 03:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919939"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This! The input lag is very annoying. It's one of my biggest complaints.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Had a big problem with input lag, too. This dates back to the first engine test. Back then, I tested all possible graphical settings, but it had no impact at all, so I figured I could as well leave it at 1920x1080 (normally not a problem for my computer). Recently I changed the resolution to 1280x720 and I got a MASSIVE increase in both, performance and responsiveness. Game is really fun to play now. On the down side the main menu covers a really big portion of the screen now, but who cares?
I noticed the minimap in tram is considerably offset, but apart from that the update seems fine. Of course balance is broken until exo suits are in the game.
For Lerk, spikes and bile bomb have different symbols for alternative attack, but it is the same spore cloud right?
Just played some more and I think the lerk is possibly the best it's ever been (if you forget the shotgun spike).
Really fun to play, visual feedback for spikes/bilebomb is working for me. Still all the same tradeoffs a lerk should have, but I can actually deal damage and get stuff done without suiciding. I can finally see the new role making sense and fitting the overall game.
Good work! (now make spikes more accurate when fired in short bursts)
<!--quoteo(post=1920150:date=Mar 31 2012, 03:53 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Mar 31 2012, 03:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920150"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Good work! (now make spikes more accurate when fired in short bursts)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh god this. The damage fall off is a bit much now with shotgun spikes gone.
The onos is mostly so OP because the marines dont have a heavy machine gun.. not sure why the devs dont like the HMG much, as yes it was a better version of the rifle, but it was only a lifeform killer mainly. It did half damage against structures. Even if it was brought back with 100 round clip and higher damage, but less against structures i dont think it would be out of place, not as much as the flamethrower atleast. The base rifle would still be useful all-around, but the HMG could be more used for covering other people who deal the damage against structures. The shotgun is decent against fades but useless against the onos.
<!--quoteo(post=1920063:date=Mar 31 2012, 04:42 AM:name=Zeikko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zeikko @ Mar 31 2012, 04:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920063"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm curious about this too. How can damage and deaths be predicted without issues like this raising up?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> There are cases where this could happen, which is why we did't initially do it. However, it's unlikely and -- as players told us -- other games do this and it works fine. If a high ping player was attacked while we was running over a health pack you could have a misprediction, but ignoring these corner cases the prediction should be accurate.
<!--quoteo(post=1920140:date=Mar 31 2012, 08:30 AM:name=Brute)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brute @ Mar 31 2012, 08:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920140"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Had a big problem with input lag, too. This dates back to the first engine test. Back then, I tested all possible graphical settings, but it had no impact at all, so I figured I could as well leave it at 1920x1080 (normally not a problem for my computer). Recently I changed the resolution to 1280x720 and I got a MASSIVE increase in both, performance and responsiveness. Game is really fun to play now. On the down side the main menu covers a really big portion of the screen now, but who cares?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm.. well I hope that's improved. Because I can handle Battlefield 3 at Ultra settings with 50+ frames but can't even run NS2 without low FPS and input lag.
<!--quoteo(post=1920185:date=Mar 31 2012, 01:01 PM:name=wazups2x)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wazups2x @ Mar 31 2012, 01:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920185"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hmm.. well I hope that's improved. Because I can handle Battlefield 3 at Ultra settings with 50+ frames but can't even run NS2 without low FPS and input lag.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People always make this comparison and I don't understand. Was the BF3 engine made by 1 guy? Are you getting "50+ frames" in a beta of BF3?
<!--quoteo(post=1920187:date=Mar 31 2012, 10:05 AM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Mar 31 2012, 10:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920187"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->People always make this comparison and I don't understand. Was the BF3 engine made by 1 guy? Are you getting "50+ frames" in a beta of BF3?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd think thats because its a recent game and generally has pretty nice graphical quality.
- New effects are beautiful. Props on the new material system.
- Bile bomb energy reduction - I was already sold on lerk bile bomb after the 201 dmg buff, but it's even better now.
- It's nice to not mistake wounded friendlies for cited enemies and visa versa on the minimap anymore.
Cons:
-I play at a low res to get tolerable FPS, so the new (alien) font is massive, and long chat messages run right off the screen.
-I don't understand the logic behind the attack change with Onos. The attacks now seem trivially different except that smash isn't as good.
-The smokey effect behind alien messages seems to have had it's transparency increased so much it's almost invisible. When those messages came out, I thought they gave the game such a polished look, and I was really impressed, but now all I see is an plain, one-color font. It has the opposite effect.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=1920065:date=Mar 31 2012, 03:53 AM:name=Floodinator)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Floodinator @ Mar 31 2012, 03:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920065"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Stomp is usless if the marines jump when you stomp.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> known bug. we're on it.
This build's hella fun. People are playing lerk and it's being effective, and other people are realizing they have to learn to aim at lerks instead of just slow skulks.
In my previous and recent games, aliens have been often raped by a huge number of ARC. When will you finally make limits for robots and turrets numbers ?
<!--quoteo(post=1920244:date=Mar 31 2012, 07:00 PM:name=BoBiNoU)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BoBiNoU @ Mar 31 2012, 07:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920244"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->who is the new guy who sounds very french btw ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The new guy IS very french. His name is Marc and he's a programmer, and has been with us for a few months.
Comments
lots of submitted reports.
(+) material system, especially nano looks neat
(-) random crashes
(-) font too huge
(-) onos 1 hive still OP
Possible solutions:
- Increase onos res at 1 hive (or in general)
- Cut HP/armor at 1 hive (could even make the 1 hive onos smaller to represent this, like a baby onos :D)
- Hardcap onos to 1 per team at 1 hive, or a percentage based on total amount of players in a team so it scales (could even do the same for other classes)
- Decrease alien starting res (25 is a tad too high anyway and a remnant from ns1)
- Reduce p.res inflow.
- ...
A single onos is something marines can deal with early to mid game, from 2 onward it becomes nearly impossible however. IMO they should keep the possibility of an early onos (though 8 min on mineshaft is a little too early... 12 - 15 would be more appropriate), since it makes the game very dynamic, but they need to make it a bigger risk-reward and not something 3 - 4 players in the team can do at the same time at that stage of the game.
I got this too, it's trippy :D
<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><u><b>YESSSSS THIS.</b></u><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
That, Sir, is a really great idea. It doesn't only bring dynamics in gameplay, it also makes the visuals more diversified, without having to introduce another alien class.
Well, it shouldn't be too small like baby onos...maybe an onos in his youth. later he could become mature by an upgrade. I really like that.
I agree, this patch has made stomp useless as gore damages buildings faster, and you do not run out of energy nearly as quick.
It was very clearcut before, Gore against marines, Smash against buildings. Now it is not so clearcut since both attacks do damage to both players and buildings
Well that's some... creative sentence structure.
Getting the Onos balance as a hive 1 lifeform will take some time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, you could do it in one pass by just decreasing the overall health.
Despite the idea of hives affecting armor strength (like in NS1) not being used anymore , I still think it would a nice way to make the onos weaker early in the game.
The design document stipulates that it wouldn't be clear enough, so how about making the amount of hives outright changing the amount of armor aliens have, rather than the effectiveness?
- Hardcap onos to 1 per team at 1 hive, or a percentage based on total amount of players in a team so it scales (could even do the same for other classes)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
<!--quoteo(post=1920105:date=Mar 31 2012, 02:56 PM:name=Ryne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ryne @ Mar 31 2012, 02:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920105"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree, this patch has made stomp useless as gore damages buildings faster, and you do not run out of energy nearly as quick.
It was very clearcut before, Gore against marines, Smash against buildings. Now it is not so clearcut since both attacks do damage to both players and buildings<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, this change needs to be revoked next patch.
Had a big problem with input lag, too. This dates back to the first engine test. Back then, I tested all possible graphical settings, but it had no impact at all, so I figured I could as well leave it at 1920x1080 (normally not a problem for my computer). Recently I changed the resolution to 1280x720 and I got a MASSIVE increase in both, performance and responsiveness. Game is really fun to play now. On the down side the main menu covers a really big portion of the screen now, but who cares?
I noticed the minimap in tram is considerably offset, but apart from that the update seems fine. Of course balance is broken until exo suits are in the game.
For Lerk, spikes and bile bomb have different symbols for alternative attack, but it is the same spore cloud right?
Really fun to play, visual feedback for spikes/bilebomb is working for me. Still all the same tradeoffs a lerk should have, but I can actually deal damage and get stuff done without suiciding.
I can finally see the new role making sense and fitting the overall game.
Good work! (now make spikes more accurate when fired in short bursts)
Oh god this. The damage fall off is a bit much now with shotgun spikes gone.
There are cases where this could happen, which is why we did't initially do it. However, it's unlikely and -- as players told us -- other games do this and it works fine. If a high ping player was attacked while we was running over a health pack you could have a misprediction, but ignoring these corner cases the prediction should be accurate.
Hmm.. well I hope that's improved. Because I can handle Battlefield 3 at Ultra settings with 50+ frames but can't even run NS2 without low FPS and input lag.
People always make this comparison and I don't understand. Was the BF3 engine made by 1 guy? Are you getting "50+ frames" in a beta of BF3?
I'd think thats because its a recent game and generally has pretty nice graphical quality.
- New effects are beautiful. Props on the new material system.
- Bile bomb energy reduction - I was already sold on lerk bile bomb after the 201 dmg buff, but it's even better now.
- It's nice to not mistake wounded friendlies for cited enemies and visa versa on the minimap anymore.
Cons:
-I play at a low res to get tolerable FPS, so the new (alien) font is massive, and long chat messages run right off the screen.
-I don't understand the logic behind the attack change with Onos. The attacks now seem trivially different except that smash isn't as good.
-The smokey effect behind alien messages seems to have had it's transparency increased so much it's almost invisible. When those messages came out, I thought they gave the game such a polished look, and I was really impressed, but now all I see is an plain, one-color font. It has the opposite effect.
known bug. we're on it.
People are playing lerk and it's being effective, and other people are realizing they have to learn to aim at lerks instead of just slow skulks.
It's looking even more like NS now!
In my previous and recent games, aliens have been often raped by a huge number of ARC. When will you finally make limits for robots and turrets numbers ?
The new guy IS very french. His name is Marc and he's a programmer, and has been with us for a few months.
--Cory