Please re-evaluate Lerk hit registration

Brackhar · April 2012

Hopefully one of the developers gets a chance to read this. Since roughly the 201 patch hit registration on lerks has seemed to have gone downhill quite a bit, which when combined with the bilebomb changes is making them quite a terror on most servers. Can we get a re-evaluation of the hit reg on these guys? It's enough that at the moment I am considering avoiding playing NS2 until this is addressed.

How many others are seeing similar nasty things right now?

Asraniel · April 2012

Can you provide videos with hitreg misses?

There was a whole topic on that subject which resultet in some pretty good hitreg fixes, specially for the lerk. Which means around build 200+ the hitreg should have become better.

With a video it will be much easier to find out the problem.

ham · April 2012

The lerk moves fast. When you combine high velocity with pitiable registration, bullets coming from perpendicular angles connect poorly.

Yuuki · April 2012

You can refer to this:

<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=117522" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=117522</a>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I did some tests on a local server with a lot of bots (tickrate~20, 50% choke) and if you don't move it seems to always work, when thing become more dynamic I had a few problems :

<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/kxupTjisEAY"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/kxupTjisEAY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>

I don't know if we can learn anything from this, but my guess it that it's not unexpected given the tickrate.</div>

I don't think it's a lerk specific problem, but the lerk moves fast so it probably make it worse. The general performance really need to improve at some point.

Evo303 · April 2012

Although i don't have anything particularly useful to contribute, i do have to say that i agree it seems to be a right pain in the ass to hit, let alone kill Lerks as it is - it feels like i could empty 2 magazines with a constant red hit marker and not kill it.

I specifically dislike how the lerk seemingly defies physics and can perform 90 degree turns without losing any speed. Eratic "zig-zagging" in flight shouldn't be possible in my opinion...

GORGEous · April 2012

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evo303 @ Apr 3 2012, 05:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1921335"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Although i don't have anything particularly useful to contribute, i do have to say that i agree it seems to be a right pain in the ass to hit, let alone kill Lerks as it is - it feels like i could empty 2 magazines with a constant red hit marker and not kill it.

I specifically dislike how the lerk seemingly defies physics and can perform 90 degree turns without losing any speed. Eratic "zig-zagging" in flight shouldn't be possible in my opinion...</div>

The hit indicators stick around for half a second after you land a hit. You fire 5 shots in that time. So what's happening here is you're hitting 1 or 2 bullets and missing 3 or 4. Thus, you have constant hit indicators, but are not hitting all of your shots.

The 90s and 180s are a result of 100% air control which I agree is really bad for gameplay.

sebu · April 2012

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evo303 @ Apr 3 2012, 04:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1921335"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Although i don't have anything particularly useful to contribute, i do have to say that i agree it seems to be a right pain in the ass to hit, let alone kill Lerks as it is - it feels like i could empty 2 magazines with a constant red hit marker and not kill it.

I specifically dislike how the lerk seemingly defies physics and can perform 90 degree turns without losing any speed. Eratic "zig-zagging" in flight shouldn't be possible in my opinion...</div>

The mechanics comes from the good ol' HL-engine, which is outdated but it was something SO new and different (lerk controls) then that people couldn't even imagine whining about the lerks momentum.

Now it could be written. Problem is, that it could take a LOT of time to configure different kind of control scheme to lerk. I have no info about the lua, but i would think that it would take a LOT of time to write properly.

But i have to agree, I would LOVE to see some momentum on lerks flight pattern. Like they could still claim straight up and shoot spikes at its target, but when theyr lunging they cannot simplu 180 back or need proper room (still you needed to be able to do this at corridors which the game takes place to :D) to take hard 90< degree turns.

Yuuki · April 2012

Changing the lerk flight is pretty easy, well the last time I tried the lua hot reload was broken but it's not very complicated.
I did tried partial air control, but it wasn't very convincing, I don't remember exactly why, I didn't liked it much. I can probably redo it if you want to try.

Also I don't think Spark is doing anything differently compared to the HL-engine, I mean laws of motion and integrating differential equations date back from the 1700's, so it's not exactly new ;)

Gorge Costanza · April 2012

I'm not the best marine, but I've played a couple of games where Lerks seemed impossible to kill. Between their speed, framerate drops in battle, and the server starting to have trouble in mid-late game, their flight is so quick and so choppy that I don't have a prayer.

Tyrsis · April 2012

I'm not a great lerk, but I played a few games last night, where I basically ended the game for the marines after hive 2 was done as a lerk. I would basically fly into their base with regen + cara, and just bile. At first it was 1 or 2 marines in there, and I was able to fly around for about 30 seconds before having to flee to heal a bit. I would continue this until buildings were dropping (about 2 minutes in) then the whole team had to come back and they still couldn't take me out. I would basically trap most of their team in the base as they frantically try to weld buildings or kill me. Meanwhile the rest of the aliens were wiping out the map.

There is just something wrong with lerk. It's either hitbox reg, it's overall speed or dropped ticks on the server after a bit of time. (or a combination of all of it). But there is just something wrong when I can basically fly in the face of 6 marines and not be too worried. Get 2 good lerks together and yeah it's over for the marines as they can just rotate attack the base (one in one out).

sebu · April 2012

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Apr 3 2012, 09:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1921442"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Changing the lerk flight is pretty easy, well the last time I tried the lua hot reload was broken but it's not very complicated.
I did tried partial air control, but it wasn't very convincing, I don't remember exactly why, I didn't liked it much. I can probably redo it if you want to try.

Also I don't think Spark is doing anything differently compared to the HL-engine, I mean laws of motion and integrating differential equations date back from the 1700's, so it's not exactly new ;)</div>

Right now, your right in HL it was simply +movement cmd which controlled the push that player got, and accelrated overtime. (Something alog these lines)
And its kinda exactly the same in NS 2 right now.

What i ment, it would be a LOT of work callibrating it right, that could fit the enviroment that ns 2 has, becausethe mapping includes many tight corridors and small spaces that you need to be able to manuver. So getting it to funciton properly, it would still need a LOT of work.

PvtBones · April 2012

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tyrsis @ Apr 3 2012, 11:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1921471"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm not a great lerk, but I played a few games last night, where I basically ended the game for the marines after hive 2 was done as a lerk. I would basically fly into their base with regen + cara, and just bile. At first it was 1 or 2 marines in there, and I was able to fly around for about 30 seconds before having to flee to heal a bit. I would continue this until buildings were dropping (about 2 minutes in) then the whole team had to come back and they still couldn't take me out. I would basically trap most of their team in the base as they frantically try to weld buildings or kill me. Meanwhile the rest of the aliens were wiping out the map.

There is just something wrong with lerk. It's either hitbox reg, it's overall speed or dropped ticks on the server after a bit of time. (or a combination of all of it). But there is just something wrong when I can basically fly in the face of 6 marines and not be too worried. Get 2 good lerks together and yeah it's over for the marines as they can just rotate attack the base (one in one out).</div>

I'm pretty sure I played that game you speak of as well on the marine team. We couldn't even dent you guys until we got lvl 3 weapons and by that point fades, gorges, and onosi (?) were in our base making up for the lack of lerk.

Brackhar · April 2012

I'm glad others are having similar problems. I don't have a video to provide unfortunately, but I will say that generally I would think any questions about whether bile bomb on lerks is imbalanced are moot until we can resolve this hit registration concern.

IronHorse · April 2012

that video from yuuki really nails it.

i often find myself (more so when connecting to the UK) shooting accurately, seeing green blood effects, seeing coinciding red crosshair ticks, and then after 20 or 30 rounds still no kill. Very confusing.

like that video shows, it seems like the client isn't sending the info to the server or something. wonder if this has to do with server performance more than anything?

Please re-evaluate Lerk hit registration

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