Well someone has to listen to someone or you'll definately loose. Marines are supposed to listen, but I agree commanders can learn lots by listening to marines. It's just that the noisiest marines are normally the ones you have to ignore "..can I have a jetpack.. I need a jetpack.. please give me a jetpack..."
I agree with you that grabbing an empty hive early on is important but the commander should be consulted - and the base needs to be secure. "Comm - shall I check the Generator Hive ??" If the comm doesn't give you orders then he doesn't care, go for it. But at least this gives your comm a chance to plan. If I dont get any orders I will try to follow someone who has a plan. If it doesn't look lik anyone has got a plan then I go for a hive, whichever hive offers least resistence.
hen comming I will quite often start a game with a vocal command "three stay at base, two build one cover. The rest of you split into two teams an go for two hives. Use stealth and let me know what their status is." the result is normally one guy stays at base and builds, two head for a hive, another asks for hmg/ha/jetpack. the rest split into teams of 1 and run of to give the skulks a meal. If you were on of my soldiers and you ran off without a word you'd **obscenity** me off by doing that. If you got a hive and held it then all would be forgiven. If you took half the team with you and all became skulk food... well I'd laugh my head off <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
are you calling me a whiner? Heck, I usually go to the hive with a LMG and a jetpack...
Commanders like to keep their marines waiting...for a very long time. They usually forget about commanding the marines (in the pub servers I play on). What is a marine supposed to do? Do they need a commander to command them to attack a fade or a skull attacking the base?
i rambo to locate and take out hives. first thing i do is figure out where the first alien hive is. next thing i do is spam to my team over and over again where it is so they know which empty ones to build at.
then i request for any other rambos to come help me rush a hive. i dont wait long though and i rush by myself a lot. if i can get two lmg clips into a hive before dying it was a life well spent. if you do that several times you will take a hive out all by yourself, and i have done it many many many times.
at the very least i keep aliens busy because no alien ever likes to see their hive under attack. theyll stop what they are doing and go see whats going on. if they dont come kill me ill kill the hive. ill kill skulks and gorges if they come near me at a hive but anything else ill dodge and run away from while keeping my gun firing on the hive because i expect that ill be dead soon and pointing anywhere else would be a waste of ammo.
i also look for weak spots in the alien defenses. quite often gorges will build defenses that you can merely walk around or hop over. if they don't stack their OCs ill take the 50hp hit to get over them. a lot of times aliens will completely abandon a hive just because they have 12 or so OCs in there, so if i can find a somewhat safe route through all of those i can get about 1 to 2 mintues of personal time with the hive. that translates to fully expended lmg in most cases.
if they get wise to me and start trying to defend their first hive too much ill go to the next closest hive because there's almost always a lonesome gorge there waiting to get 80 resources. if my team isnt quick enough securing that first hive, ill buy them more time by killing that gorge and keeping the second hive empty; no im not above camping.
ill also yell at my team to hurry up and come secure the second hive because ive noticed that a lot of commanders waste their time putting way too much defense at the first empty hive. its like they dont know what to do after theyve taken one hive. take another one duh. all you need is a tfac, phase gate, and 4 turrets. after that its secure enough for you to strike the next hive or resource, especially if its the hive furthest from the first populated hive.
best thing about being a rambo is that ive learned to be efficient with the lmg. i dont need expensive weapons or armor because im lethal with the lmg. therefore i dont need to stay in the commanders good graces and i can do whatever i want and not care if the commander hates me. however there have been times were i was wandering far from base and the commander saw me and commanded me to build a resource or small outpost. in situations like that where the commander gives me a direct order and i know he means for me and me only to do it ill follow the order and build the outpost. but if he keeps me waiting ill wander off.
i dont claim that my way works and i dont always rambo. a team with all rambos would probably lose unless they were grouped, but a rambo can be highly effective as long as the commander and a few good marines are securing hives and resources. just like skulks, marines can benefit from a few stragglers that search out weak spots in the alien defense. ive stopped full scale attacks on the marine start because i got into the aliens least defended hive and solo killed it.
im not always a rambo; sometimes im a field commander. they are the same except that a field commander sticks with the group and communicates a little more with the commander and the team.
im a good rambo. sometimes my team loses but other times i end the game before either side knows what happened.
lol, ALL pubs are newb pubs in my opinion. that's why i go rambo because my team is usually not advancing as fast as they could and the aliens aren't communicating enough to thwart small scale attacks.
ive been in clans in many hl mods and other mods from games like quake and ut for years so when i play on pubs almost everyone seems like a newb to me.
When secretly seiging, build up the first siege until it is *nearly* done, but don'T finish it. Let the comm put down another one or two sieges, and do the same. When they are all *nearly* done, finish them all. Instead of one siege alerting aliens to your position (where they *might* be able to destroy the siege in time to save the hive), you'll have 2-3 sieges taking the hive / defenses down FAST.
You can also do this with turrets too... Get the comm to drop a few turrets (while the TF is upgrading), and build them up to nearly finished state. This way, they don't beep. But, if you are spotted, in a few seconds you can have a full defense of that TF.
waypoints is buggy and i believe a waste of time and effort. Nothing a voice comm which takes 1 key press and no scrolling of map needed can't do just as effectively. waypoints seems to be there to help teach newbies the map more than anything else..
NarfwakJoin Date: 2002-11-02Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
<!--QuoteBegin--Ravlen+Dec 19 2002, 02:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ravlen @ Dec 19 2002, 02:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Here's a little rambo trick I picked up:
When secretly seiging, build up the first siege until it is *nearly* done, but don'T finish it. Let the comm put down another one or two sieges, and do the same. When they are all *nearly* done, finish them all. Instead of one siege alerting aliens to your position (where they *might* be able to destroy the siege in time to save the hive), you'll have 2-3 sieges taking the hive / defenses down FAST.
You can also do this with turrets too... Get the comm to drop a few turrets (while the TF is upgrading), and build them up to nearly finished state. This way, they don't beep. But, if you are spotted, in a few seconds you can have a full defense of that TF.
Ravlen<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Everyone ought to know this by now - it was one of the original strategy posts by M. Evil. It's good to know though, and is really useful.
but rambiing trying 2 infiltrait n set up a outpost eg, TF 5/6 turrets and portal near a hive = Good but ant rambiing its basicly a scout engineer.
so rambo = no no
only good times i seen a rambo be useful is if hes been kitted up with shotty jpack and weld and goes n kills an alien hive. this weapon combo is good against killing skulks cos when ur trying 2 weld a hive to death u usal get the odd skulk try n climb up and bite u or there spawning at the hive ur trying 2 kill so the shotty comes in handy for 1 shot 1 kill and you need 1 hit 1 kill when trying 2 jpack around dodging skulks and fade fire or your run out of jpack juice :/.
NarfwakJoin Date: 2002-11-02Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
<!--QuoteBegin--BlueGhost+Dec 20 2002, 12:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BlueGhost @ Dec 20 2002, 12:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What is the damage of a shotgun blast if all pellets hit btw?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> First of all, the shotty doesn't use a pellet hit system. It uses a cone system. This has been discussed to death; please, search for it next time.
To answer your question, a lot. I'm thinking somewhere around 90-120, given how easily a shotty can kill most enemies.
rambo's really only work out if you have a crap commander. unfortunately on pub servers this is most always the case. spamming the hive location isn't that usefull as the commander should allready know (you can usually tell where a hive is by scrolling over it and hearing all the aliens + healing noise, or by paying attention to the initial rush timing and direction) the most usefull thing for a rambo to do in the start of the game is to gorge hunt. aliens usually have a gorge running around trying to get down caps or save for a hive. some times he will put up one or two turrets. good, that means less money for a hive, kill the gorge, kill the res chamber and if its just a single turret, you could probably kill it too (although by then you'd be low on ammo) attacking their first hive doesn't achieve a lot as you will usually die fairly often and you could be killing more if you went after lone gorges/skulks
but please oh god please remember not to run out until the base has at least one turret in it
oh and waypoints are also good for people like me who don't have a microphone, although i spose i should get one
for the first hive you should only put 2-3 turrets in it, not 4, you won't usually have the time/money that early in the game. slam something down and run off to the second. you can always phase people back to it once second is held
<!--QuoteBegin--BlueGhost+Dec 19 2002, 07:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BlueGhost @ Dec 19 2002, 07:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What is the damage of a shotgun blast if all pellets hit btw?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I heard it was 160 for 16 pellets, for 10 damage each. The cone system as I understand it. Kind of like the lmg cone, but bigger and the 16 shots at once. The engine shoots them all out in the cone just like the 16 lmg shots at once. That is the way I think at least... The other option would be a % damage by range, but that just seems wierd.
Comments
I agree with you that grabbing an empty hive early on is important but the commander should be consulted - and the base needs to be secure. "Comm - shall I check the Generator Hive ??"
If the comm doesn't give you orders then he doesn't care, go for it. But at least this gives your comm a chance to plan. If I dont get any orders I will try to follow someone who has a plan. If it doesn't look lik anyone has got a plan then I go for a hive, whichever hive offers least resistence.
hen comming I will quite often start a game with a vocal command "three stay at base, two build one cover. The rest of you split into two teams an go for two hives. Use stealth and let me know what their status is."
the result is normally one guy stays at base and builds, two head for a hive, another asks for hmg/ha/jetpack. the rest split into teams of 1 and run of to give the skulks a meal.
If you were on of my soldiers and you ran off without a word you'd **obscenity** me off by doing that. If you got a hive and held it then all would be forgiven. If you took half the team with you and all became skulk food... well I'd laugh my head off <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Commanders like to keep their marines waiting...for a very long time. They usually forget about commanding the marines (in the pub servers I play on). What is a marine supposed to do? Do they need a commander to command them to attack a fade or a skull attacking the base?
then i request for any other rambos to come help me rush a hive. i dont wait long though and i rush by myself a lot. if i can get two lmg clips into a hive before dying it was a life well spent. if you do that several times you will take a hive out all by yourself, and i have done it many many many times.
at the very least i keep aliens busy because no alien ever likes to see their hive under attack. theyll stop what they are doing and go see whats going on. if they dont come kill me ill kill the hive. ill kill skulks and gorges if they come near me at a hive but anything else ill dodge and run away from while keeping my gun firing on the hive because i expect that ill be dead soon and pointing anywhere else would be a waste of ammo.
i also look for weak spots in the alien defenses. quite often gorges will build defenses that you can merely walk around or hop over. if they don't stack their OCs ill take the 50hp hit to get over them. a lot of times aliens will completely abandon a hive just because they have 12 or so OCs in there, so if i can find a somewhat safe route through all of those i can get about 1 to 2 mintues of personal time with the hive. that translates to fully expended lmg in most cases.
if they get wise to me and start trying to defend their first hive too much ill go to the next closest hive because there's almost always a lonesome gorge there waiting to get 80 resources. if my team isnt quick enough securing that first hive, ill buy them more time by killing that gorge and keeping the second hive empty; no im not above camping.
ill also yell at my team to hurry up and come secure the second hive because ive noticed that a lot of commanders waste their time putting way too much defense at the first empty hive. its like they dont know what to do after theyve taken one hive. take another one duh. all you need is a tfac, phase gate, and 4 turrets. after that its secure enough for you to strike the next hive or resource, especially if its the hive furthest from the first populated hive.
best thing about being a rambo is that ive learned to be efficient with the lmg. i dont need expensive weapons or armor because im lethal with the lmg. therefore i dont need to stay in the commanders good graces and i can do whatever i want and not care if the commander hates me. however there have been times were i was wandering far from base and the commander saw me and commanded me to build a resource or small outpost. in situations like that where the commander gives me a direct order and i know he means for me and me only to do it ill follow the order and build the outpost. but if he keeps me waiting ill wander off.
i dont claim that my way works and i dont always rambo. a team with all rambos would probably lose unless they were grouped, but a rambo can be highly effective as long as the commander and a few good marines are securing hives and resources. just like skulks, marines can benefit from a few stragglers that search out weak spots in the alien defense. ive stopped full scale attacks on the marine start because i got into the aliens least defended hive and solo killed it.
im not always a rambo; sometimes im a field commander. they are the same except that a field commander sticks with the group and communicates a little more with the commander and the team.
im a good rambo. sometimes my team loses but other times i end the game before either side knows what happened.
"wtf?"
"gg"
ive been in clans in many hl mods and other mods from games like quake and ut for years so when i play on pubs almost everyone seems like a newb to me.
When secretly seiging, build up the first siege until it is *nearly* done, but don'T finish it. Let the comm put down another one or two sieges, and do the same. When they are all *nearly* done, finish them all. Instead of one siege alerting aliens to your position (where they *might* be able to destroy the siege in time to save the hive), you'll have 2-3 sieges taking the hive / defenses down FAST.
You can also do this with turrets too... Get the comm to drop a few turrets (while the TF is upgrading), and build them up to nearly finished state. This way, they don't beep. But, if you are spotted, in a few seconds you can have a full defense of that TF.
Ravlen
When secretly seiging, build up the first siege until it is *nearly* done, but don'T finish it. Let the comm put down another one or two sieges, and do the same. When they are all *nearly* done, finish them all. Instead of one siege alerting aliens to your position (where they *might* be able to destroy the siege in time to save the hive), you'll have 2-3 sieges taking the hive / defenses down FAST.
You can also do this with turrets too... Get the comm to drop a few turrets (while the TF is upgrading), and build them up to nearly finished state. This way, they don't beep. But, if you are spotted, in a few seconds you can have a full defense of that TF.
Ravlen<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Everyone ought to know this by now - it was one of the original strategy posts by M. Evil. It's good to know though, and is really useful.
but rambiing trying 2 infiltrait n set up a outpost eg, TF 5/6 turrets and portal near a hive = Good but ant rambiing its basicly a scout engineer.
so rambo = no no
only good times i seen a rambo be useful is if hes been kitted up with shotty jpack and weld and goes n kills an alien hive. this weapon combo is good against killing skulks cos when ur trying 2 weld a hive to death u usal get the odd skulk try n climb up and bite u or there spawning at the hive ur trying 2 kill so the shotty comes in handy for 1 shot 1 kill and you need 1 hit 1 kill when trying 2 jpack around dodging skulks and fade fire or your run out of jpack juice :/.
BlueGhost
First of all, the shotty doesn't use a pellet hit system. It uses a cone system. This has been discussed to death; please, search for it next time.
To answer your question, a lot. I'm thinking somewhere around 90-120, given how easily a shotty can kill most enemies.
unfortunately on pub servers this is most always the case. spamming the hive location isn't that usefull as the commander should allready know (you can usually tell where a hive is by scrolling over it and hearing all the aliens + healing noise, or by paying attention to the initial rush timing and direction) the most usefull thing for a rambo to do in the start of the game is to gorge hunt. aliens usually have a gorge running around trying to get down caps or save for a hive. some times he will put up one or two turrets. good, that means less money for a hive, kill the gorge, kill the res chamber and if its just a single turret, you could probably kill it too (although by then you'd be low on ammo) attacking their first hive doesn't achieve a lot as you will usually die fairly often and you could be killing more if you went after lone gorges/skulks
but please oh god please remember not to run out until the base has at least one turret in it
oh and waypoints are also good for people like me who don't have a microphone, although i spose i should get one
for the first hive you should only put 2-3 turrets in it, not 4, you won't usually have the time/money that early in the game. slam something down and run off to the second. you can always phase people back to it once second is held
I heard it was 160 for 16 pellets, for 10 damage each.
The cone system as I understand it. Kind of like the lmg cone, but bigger and the 16 shots at once. The engine shoots them all out in the cone just like the 16 lmg shots at once. That is the way I think at least...
The other option would be a % damage by range, but that just seems wierd.
so thats 50 + 10 in the gun?
so 9600 damage total.
HP of a hive is 8000 if I recall?
BlueGhost
what forum is it in?