<!--quoteo(post=1926679:date=Apr 18 2012, 10:26 AM:name=Scrajm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scrajm @ Apr 18 2012, 10:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1926679"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To me this patch is the true gorilla.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> the patch is also known as "#205 - silverback gorilla"
I refreshed the page about 1 million times in the last few hours :) can't wait
<!--quoteo(post=1926602:date=Apr 18 2012, 03:16 AM:name=WorthyRival)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WorthyRival @ Apr 18 2012, 03:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1926602"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Weezl your links give me this.
The page you were looking for doesn't exist. You may have mistyped the address or the page may have moved.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> links fixed in my <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=117856&view=findpost&p=1926594" target="_blank">post #164</a> (the forum shortens long links, and here i copypasted another post of mine, with "..." in the middle of the links)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->4.) Interesting dev tweet there. There are only two things I would really miss about drifters: flare and ninja hives. Flare is going away anyway, so as long as ninja hives can still happen somehow I'm happ<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> They're already removing flares, so that only leaves ninja hives. Could just let the khamm drop a hive without needing infestation. I agree it'd be important, since having to build a cyst chain to the next hive location is often too obvious. Having to connect a new hive to existing cysts would also remove the strategic depth to a 2 or 3 hive choice (it starts a new chain of infestation giving you a second network of infestation that doesnt necessarily connect with the first) Or you could let gorges place hives with T.res, maybe allow the commander to give the 'hive-seed' to a gorge player who then has to go place it :p (epic gorge journey through enemy lines to ninja a hive)
Either way, I wouldn't miss drifters at all, they're entirely unnecessary and it would definitely feel better if buildings just grew naturally out of infestation.
<!--quoteo(post=1926291:date=Apr 17 2012, 08:39 AM:name=blackpiranha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blackpiranha @ Apr 17 2012, 08:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1926291"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have a completely different feeling about the alien com..
His role remains boring, no matter which (small) changes are made, just read this:
<i>He’s not telling his team what to do - he’s giving them information and providing the best conditions he can and letting them choose their location, lifeform and tactics.</i>
It's basically playing Starcraft, chosing upgrades, spreading creep but without having any units. Sounds neat? Well yeah.
You have so little impact on the processing game that I don't really want to do that job at all, especially not the whole game.
Everytime you will have that feeling of joining the teamfights on the ground in your head. This gets worse when playing 'competititve' - I'm pretty sure that sitting in your hive the whole clanmatch is very inefficient since you have to sacrifice 1 player for decorating the map. I think it will rather tend to a jump in and do this and that quickly and then jump out style especially since you have a good overview via zoomed minimap. That even worked in NS1.
Sidenote: Yes i have the NS2 Beta and tried the alien com many times.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I missed this with my first scan through this giant thread. I share your misgivings, but i think they can really do this right. At first i thought as you did that the alien Khamm would be even more useless now because of your linked sentence. Giving it some thought though it will be an interesting roll to play IF:
On infestation the Khamm SHOULD be able to defend his territory well. Your job will be to spread the advantage giving Infestation and keep RTs up while keeping the upgrades coming. If they allow the Khamm to have enough USEFUL tools to defend his or her territory it will be fun. The Alien Khamm doesn't have the ability like the Marine Comm to rally troops or teleport them back. So the Alien Khamm should be able to hold the fort so to speak while the aliens pressure.
On another note:
The hives being less important may be a double edge sword. The reason marine teams would turtle is because of alien map control and domination. Now aliens have no reason to expand other than the marines do, more spawn points and CC/Hive energy and RTs. So will this make the marines turtle less due to lack of such a firm hold on the map on the aliens part? I hope so. It will be more like an RTs with the expansions being important but not game losing. The real fights will be in the home base.
<!--quoteo(post=1926675:date=Apr 18 2012, 09:07 AM:name=Namm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Namm @ Apr 18 2012, 09:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1926675"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Or why not Settlers I (<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0VETX5Ji3I" target="_blank">video</a>). :) Great game (and with flags instead of Cysts and castles instead of Hives). Settlers is a good example of a more ... indirect RTS game, if that is what the devs are aiming at for the Khamm. I'm not sure it's such a great concept for a fast-paced RTS multiplayer game though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Settlers 2 was epic. I remember playing split screen with my friend when I was younger. Anyone who liked it, I recommend you check out settlers 2 anniversary edition. It's basically the same game with updated graphics.
<!--quoteo(post=1926730:date=Apr 18 2012, 01:41 PM:name=rammaj)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rammaj @ Apr 18 2012, 01:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1926730"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->by khamm u mean the aliens? I though their name was Khara?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marine Commander = Comm (Alien Commander) Khara + Comm = Khamm
Or so the logic goes. Not my idea, just have seen it before and it is better to distinguish between Alien and Marine comm with one word. =)
This sounds like a game changer and something that is needed. I would like to see the changes in action before I decide whether this is a good move or not, but I do so far like all the changes, just needs some improvements as stated below by other users.
<!--quoteo(post=1926077:date=Apr 16 2012, 05:37 PM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Apr 16 2012, 05:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1926077"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm absolutely looking forward to these changes, though I still have some questions (I read through the entire document, good read):
- AFAIK it's pretty hard to tell the difference between a cyst and a mini-cyst for the khamm, are there plans to make that difference more noticeable? I can imagine this can be quite confusing/frustrating (i.e when they're mixed up in an area you'd have to click them all to find out which ones you can rupture) - What's stopping an alien commander from spending all his energy on speeding up the expansion with nutrient mist? I.e the Khamm usually only has one energy sink early in the game anyway, this could result in not needing those gorges for faster expansion. - Does rupture and 'foresight' imply that hivesight is going to be removed/reworked? I see very little point in splashing infestation on marines when they're already on infestation and thus visible to the entire team (aside from the visibility reduction, which can be a big thing I suppose) Also at 1 p.res comm spreading cysts everywhere for free maphack is going to be as good as ever.
Anyway, can't wait :) Great job<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1926086:date=Apr 16 2012, 05:48 PM:name=Unknown_Soldier)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Unknown_Soldier @ Apr 16 2012, 05:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1926086"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My only concern is (I assume this wasn't missed or not included, or that I didn't completely read past it) that while the Gorge has been made more important, the flaws of the Gorge are still right up front. Mini-cysts generally aren't worth the resources outside of putting on a surface for Hydras. Hydras are rarely ever worth the resources for the lackluster performance they give.
I mean I love that Gorges got bumped a bit to the forefront because of Alien team mechanics, but Gorge mechanics are still like nails on a chalkboard.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The only thing is having visual feedback for marines on which structures are mature or not.
Having the visual feedback to accurately implement the point in the design doc: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Marines also have more interesting options in that they can take the current maturity level of structures into account. Hit the near Mature Harvester, or try to pick off the farther newborn one?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->is crucial to making the bullet point actually matter
If getting the information "Is it mature or not and how can I implement that into my strategy?" is too difficult, people simply wont do it.
Having it say MATURE on the HUD or something is a possibility but "cheap" and just doesnt have "finesse"
I realize making "mature" versions of the models is definitely not happening due to $$ and Time..
My thoughts is using the new material system or cinematics?
Make mature structures have glowing spores emanating from them, or have their lighted yellow areas commonly found in many structures pulsate with light if they are mature
The best I think is to make the model be simply be 20% bigger than 204 in mature stage, and 20% smaller than 204 in starting stage. and have them "grow"
^----- falls in direct parrallel with the 20% less health starting off and 20% more health at mature.
I figure scaling a model and have it Scale with time in line with its health is relatively easy to do
SOMETHING to give visual feedback that says "HEY I'M MATURE"
<!--quoteo(post=1926799:date=Apr 18 2012, 01:25 PM:name=Alchemda)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Alchemda @ Apr 18 2012, 01:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1926799"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only thing is having visual feedback for marines on which structures are mature or not.
Having the visual feedback to accurately implement the point in the design doc: is crucial to making the bullet point actually matter
If getting the information "Is it mature or not and how can I implement that into my strategy?" is too difficult, people simply wont do it.
Having it say MATURE on the HUD or something is a possibility but "cheap" and just doesnt have "finesse"
I realize making "mature" versions of the models is definitely not happening due to $$ and Time..
My thoughts is using the new material system or cinematics?
Make mature structures have glowing spores emanating from them, or have their lighted yellow areas commonly found in many structures pulsate with light if they are mature
The best I think is to make the model be simply be 20% bigger than 204 in mature stage, and 20% smaller than 204 in starting stage. and have them "grow"
^----- falls in direct parrallel with the 20% less health starting off and 20% more health at mature.
I figure scaling a model and have it Scale with time in line with its health is relatively easy to do
SOMETHING to give visual feedback that says "HEY I'M MATURE"
Thoughts?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The design doc already details different ways to clearly distinguish structures by maturity level, if you've read it.
I think a good way of signifying mature or not without having to touch the models themselves would be to give them like a soft, glowy, pulsating effect, with the glow/pulse growing stronger as the structure nears maturation, when mature the structures give off a volumetric light like the one prototyped in the cyst/lighting thread. That would give a clear indication without having to add more art assets, as well as increasing the 'alien-ness' of the structures
I'm really liking the changes here, highlight being growing stuff from the infestation itself. It would be even better if the Drifter was the only non-player unit that can provide Hive Sight, while removing infestation hive sight, thus solidifying the Drifter's role as spy/support.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm really liking the changes here, highlight being growing stuff from the infestation itself. It would be even better if the Drifter was the only non-player unit that can provide Hive Sight, while removing infestation hive sight, thus solidifying the Drifter's role as spy/support.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed, get rid of 'passive' infestation hive sight all together, drifters call fill the role + reintroduce movement chambers or whatever. (so it's at least a powerful tech option)
I'm really liking the changes here, highlight being growing stuff from the infestation itself. It would be even better if the Drifter was the only non-player unit that can provide Hive Sight, while removing infestation hive sight, thus solidifying the Drifter's role as spy/support.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your hive sight idea is great. It makes the new drifters more useful, gives marines more ninja opportunities, and it just plain makes sense that creatures can see but plants can't. What if infestation still granted the khamm local audio when viewing a given area though? I think that'd be just perfect. He can still sort of "feel around" for what's happening in his garden, but not with perfect information the way he can with hive sight.
I'm looking forward to drifter 2.0, and it's does a lot to improve the aesthetic, but I have one important question:
If a gorge puts a bit of unconnected infestation at a tech point and keeps it alive, can the khamm build a hive there? As long as he can, I'm all for it. This would make ninja hives still possible, but much harder and much more rewarding. Also it's not possible without khamm/gorge cooperation, which I find a plus.
Edit: another plus to allowing local sound from cysts is that when marines try to ninja, they actually will benefit from actively "keeping quiet" just like they should if they were doing it in real life. The sound of each turret popping up should make them nervous. Adds a lot of suspense IMO.
The decision to put cysts back to 1 tres from 2 sounds like it will not prevent aliens from mass expanding anymore than they can now. I would strongly reconsider going live with 205 with 1 tres cysts as it will change very little in the early AKA mid game.
Either that or reduce initial team res by 10 to compensate for this decision.
50 tres, with an average of 18 tres spent on 2 tres cysts in the first two minutes of the game plus the two rt's leaves aliens with a fair, comparable res situation to the marines, making it dicey to go beyond those initial 3 rt's extremely early.
I see no reason not to just get 4-5 rt's as aliens with 1 tres cysts, but with 2 tres cysts it is impractical / highly unlikely.
<!--quoteo(post=1926872:date=Apr 18 2012, 06:44 PM:name=eh?)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (eh? @ Apr 18 2012, 06:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1926872"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The decision to put cysts back to 1 tres from 2 sounds like it will not prevent aliens from mass expanding anymore than they can now. I would strongly reconsider going live with 205 with 1 tres cysts as it will change very little in the early AKA mid game.
Either that or reduce initial team res by 10 to compensate for this decision.
50 tres, with an average of 18 tres spent on 2 tres cysts in the first two minutes of the game plus the two rt's leaves aliens with a fair, comparable res situation to the marines, making it dicey to go beyond those initial 3 rt's extremely early.
I see no reason not to just get 4-5 rt's as aliens with 1 tres cysts, but with 2 tres cysts it is impractical / highly unlikely.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
because getting 4-5 rt's will mean gorgies are near the front lines.
I'm really liking the changes here, highlight being growing stuff from the infestation itself. It would be even better if the Drifter was the only non-player unit that can provide Hive Sight, while removing infestation hive sight, thus solidifying the Drifter's role as spy/support.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I gotta echo this. NS1 always required line of sight or parasite to get Hive Sight working. The infestation giving auto hive sight has always felt weird to me. I think the slowing effect on infestation is fine, though.
I really think Drifters need to cost more. They're NOT staples of the alien economy anymore, and they're going to have more strategic value. There's no reason they need to be cheap as dirt.
@Serpico: Precisely! I believe Foresight would be a passive ability of the Khamm 2.0, so if Drifter hive sight is a go, then it would put even more emphasis on regularly "feeling" his way (Khamm) around Kharaa territory; that is of course made easier with Drifter "spy cams" placed in important locations.
@Deadzone: Agreed. Increasing the cost also conveniently discourages AI trains :P
<!--quoteo(post=1926886:date=Apr 18 2012, 06:22 PM:name=PsiWarp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsiWarp @ Apr 18 2012, 06:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1926886"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@Serpico: Precisely! I believe Foresight would be a passive ability of the Khamm 2.0, so if Drifter hive sight is a go, then it would put even more emphasis on regularly "feeling" his way (Khamm) around Kharaa territory; that is of course made easier with Drifter "spy cams" placed in important locations.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Currently though it looks like foresight will work anywhere that aliens have been. I'd prefer it on infestation only in combination with infestation losing hive sight. Regardless though, I love the direction things are going.
I love the comparable but still asymmetric nature of passively cloaked drifters and marine scan. Marines can scan pretty much anywhere, whenever with not much aliens can do about it. Spycam drifters are easy to lose and easy to counter (obs spam!) but the payoff is far greater when they are skillfully used and not effectively countered (perma-cam!)
It also really adds to the anxious, "Kharra lurking everywhere" feeling that makes playing marines such a neat experience. I imagine the following scenario:
Marine walking along.... hears a drifter! Turns around..... nothing there. Keeps walking... hears a drifter again. Turns around...... still nothing. He pauses for a moment.... takes a few more steps forward before instantly turning around ready to fire! DRIFTER RIGHT THERE ENZYME CLOUD EVERYWHERE SOUNDS OF FADE UN-BLINKING HAAAAAAAAAAAAA-SLASH
In an instant, the drifter has re-cloaked in a corner and the fade has blinked away. "Soldier lost."
<!--quoteo(post=1926903:date=Apr 18 2012, 06:53 PM:name=serpico)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (serpico @ Apr 18 2012, 06:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1926903"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It also really adds to the anxious, "Kharra lurking everywhere" feeling that makes playing marines such a neat experience. I imagine the following scenario:
Marine walking along.... hears a drifter! Turns around..... nothing there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just found myself laughing as I thought "what if drifters could Chuckle?" Ohhhh the mind games.
Comments
the patch is also known as "#205 - silverback gorilla"
I refreshed the page about 1 million times in the last few hours :) can't wait
The page you were looking for doesn't exist.
You may have mistyped the address or the page may have moved.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
links fixed in my <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=117856&view=findpost&p=1926594" target="_blank">post #164</a>
(the forum shortens long links, and here i copypasted another post of mine, with "..." in the middle of the links)
Either way, I wouldn't miss drifters at all, they're entirely unnecessary and it would definitely feel better if buildings just grew naturally out of infestation.
His role remains boring, no matter which (small) changes are made, just read this:
<i>He’s not telling his team what to do - he’s giving them information and providing the best conditions he can and letting them choose their location, lifeform and tactics.</i>
It's basically playing Starcraft, chosing upgrades, spreading creep but without having any units. Sounds neat? Well yeah.
You have so little impact on the processing game that I don't really want to do that job at all, especially not the whole game.
Everytime you will have that feeling of joining the teamfights on the ground in your head. This gets worse when playing 'competititve' - I'm pretty sure that sitting in your hive the whole clanmatch is very inefficient since you have to sacrifice 1 player for decorating the map. I think it will rather tend to a jump in and do this and that quickly and then jump out style especially since you have a good overview via zoomed minimap. That even worked in NS1.
Sidenote: Yes i have the NS2 Beta and tried the alien com many times.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I missed this with my first scan through this giant thread. I share your misgivings, but i think they can really do this right. At first i thought as you did that the alien Khamm would be even more useless now because of your linked sentence. Giving it some thought though it will be an interesting roll to play IF:
On infestation the Khamm SHOULD be able to defend his territory well. Your job will be to spread the advantage giving Infestation and keep RTs up while keeping the upgrades coming. If they allow the Khamm to have enough USEFUL tools to defend his or her territory it will be fun. The Alien Khamm doesn't have the ability like the Marine Comm to rally troops or teleport them back. So the Alien Khamm should be able to hold the fort so to speak while the aliens pressure.
On another note:
The hives being less important may be a double edge sword. The reason marine teams would turtle is because of alien map control and domination. Now aliens have no reason to expand other than the marines do, more spawn points and CC/Hive energy and RTs. So will this make the marines turtle less due to lack of such a firm hold on the map on the aliens part? I hope so. It will be more like an RTs with the expansions being important but not game losing. The real fights will be in the home base.
If this is done right it could be really awesome.
Ohhh nostalgia alert! =)
Marine Commander = Comm
(Alien Commander) Khara + Comm = Khamm
Or so the logic goes. Not my idea, just have seen it before and it is better to distinguish between Alien and Marine comm with one word. =)
<!--quoteo(post=1926077:date=Apr 16 2012, 05:37 PM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Apr 16 2012, 05:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1926077"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm absolutely looking forward to these changes, though I still have some questions (I read through the entire document, good read):
- AFAIK it's pretty hard to tell the difference between a cyst and a mini-cyst for the khamm, are there plans to make that difference more noticeable? I can imagine this can be quite confusing/frustrating (i.e when they're mixed up in an area you'd have to click them all to find out which ones you can rupture)
- What's stopping an alien commander from spending all his energy on speeding up the expansion with nutrient mist? I.e the Khamm usually only has one energy sink early in the game anyway, this could result in not needing those gorges for faster expansion.
- Does rupture and 'foresight' imply that hivesight is going to be removed/reworked? I see very little point in splashing infestation on marines when they're already on infestation and thus visible to the entire team (aside from the visibility reduction, which can be a big thing I suppose) Also at 1 p.res comm spreading cysts everywhere for free maphack is going to be as good as ever.
Anyway, can't wait :) Great job<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1926086:date=Apr 16 2012, 05:48 PM:name=Unknown_Soldier)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Unknown_Soldier @ Apr 16 2012, 05:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1926086"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My only concern is (I assume this wasn't missed or not included, or that I didn't completely read past it) that while the Gorge has been made more important, the flaws of the Gorge are still right up front. Mini-cysts generally aren't worth the resources outside of putting on a surface for Hydras. Hydras are rarely ever worth the resources for the lackluster performance they give.
I mean I love that Gorges got bumped a bit to the forefront because of Alien team mechanics, but Gorge mechanics are still like nails on a chalkboard.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Both extremely valid points that I agree with.
Having the visual feedback to accurately implement the point in the design doc:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Marines also have more interesting options in that they can take the current maturity level of structures into account. Hit the near Mature Harvester, or try to pick off the farther newborn one?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->is crucial to making the bullet point actually matter
If getting the information "Is it mature or not and how can I implement that into my strategy?" is too difficult, people simply wont do it.
Having it say MATURE on the HUD or something is a possibility but "cheap" and just doesnt have "finesse"
I realize making "mature" versions of the models is definitely not happening due to $$ and Time..
My thoughts is using the new material system or cinematics?
Make mature structures have glowing spores emanating from them, or have their lighted yellow areas commonly found in many structures pulsate with light if they are mature
The best I think is to make the model be simply be 20% bigger than 204 in mature stage, and 20% smaller than 204 in starting stage. and have them "grow"
^----- falls in direct parrallel with the 20% less health starting off and 20% more health at mature.
I figure scaling a model and have it Scale with time in line with its health is relatively easy to do
SOMETHING to give visual feedback that says "HEY I'M MATURE"
Thoughts?
Having the visual feedback to accurately implement the point in the design doc:
is crucial to making the bullet point actually matter
If getting the information "Is it mature or not and how can I implement that into my strategy?" is too difficult, people simply wont do it.
Having it say MATURE on the HUD or something is a possibility but "cheap" and just doesnt have "finesse"
I realize making "mature" versions of the models is definitely not happening due to $$ and Time..
My thoughts is using the new material system or cinematics?
Make mature structures have glowing spores emanating from them, or have their lighted yellow areas commonly found in many structures pulsate with light if they are mature
The best I think is to make the model be simply be 20% bigger than 204 in mature stage, and 20% smaller than 204 in starting stage. and have them "grow"
^----- falls in direct parrallel with the 20% less health starting off and 20% more health at mature.
I figure scaling a model and have it Scale with time in line with its health is relatively easy to do
SOMETHING to give visual feedback that says "HEY I'M MATURE"
Thoughts?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The design doc already details different ways to clearly distinguish structures by maturity level, if you've read it.
Let's see what happens after the release...
(http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=117722)
I'm really liking the changes here, highlight being growing stuff from the infestation itself. It would be even better if the Drifter was the only non-player unit that can provide Hive Sight, while removing infestation hive sight, thus solidifying the Drifter's role as spy/support.
Agreed, get rid of 'passive' infestation hive sight all together, drifters call fill the role + reintroduce movement chambers or whatever. (so it's at least a powerful tech option)
I'm really liking the changes here, highlight being growing stuff from the infestation itself. It would be even better if the Drifter was the only non-player unit that can provide Hive Sight, while removing infestation hive sight, thus solidifying the Drifter's role as spy/support.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your hive sight idea is great. It makes the new drifters more useful, gives marines more ninja opportunities, and it just plain makes sense that creatures can see but plants can't. What if infestation still granted the khamm local audio when viewing a given area though? I think that'd be just perfect. He can still sort of "feel around" for what's happening in his garden, but not with perfect information the way he can with hive sight.
I'm looking forward to drifter 2.0, and it's does a lot to improve the aesthetic, but I have one important question:
If a gorge puts a bit of unconnected infestation at a tech point and keeps it alive, can the khamm build a hive there? As long as he can, I'm all for it. This would make ninja hives still possible, but much harder and much more rewarding. Also it's not possible without khamm/gorge cooperation, which I find a plus.
Edit: another plus to allowing local sound from cysts is that when marines try to ninja, they actually will benefit from actively "keeping quiet" just like they should if they were doing it in real life. The sound of each turret popping up should make them nervous. Adds a lot of suspense IMO.
Either that or reduce initial team res by 10 to compensate for this decision.
50 tres, with an average of 18 tres spent on 2 tres cysts in the first two minutes of the game plus the two rt's leaves aliens with a fair, comparable res situation to the marines, making it dicey to go beyond those initial 3 rt's extremely early.
I see no reason not to just get 4-5 rt's as aliens with 1 tres cysts, but with 2 tres cysts it is impractical / highly unlikely.
Either that or reduce initial team res by 10 to compensate for this decision.
50 tres, with an average of 18 tres spent on 2 tres cysts in the first two minutes of the game plus the two rt's leaves aliens with a fair, comparable res situation to the marines, making it dicey to go beyond those initial 3 rt's extremely early.
I see no reason not to just get 4-5 rt's as aliens with 1 tres cysts, but with 2 tres cysts it is impractical / highly unlikely.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
because getting 4-5 rt's will mean gorgies are near the front lines.
Slightly less than 2 tres lost by not using a gorge sounds pretty pointless to me.
I'm really liking the changes here, highlight being growing stuff from the infestation itself. It would be even better if the Drifter was the only non-player unit that can provide Hive Sight, while removing infestation hive sight, thus solidifying the Drifter's role as spy/support.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I gotta echo this. NS1 always required line of sight or parasite to get Hive Sight working. The infestation giving auto hive sight has always felt weird to me. I think the slowing effect on infestation is fine, though.
I really think Drifters need to cost more. They're NOT staples of the alien economy anymore, and they're going to have more strategic value. There's no reason they need to be cheap as dirt.
@Deadzone: Agreed. Increasing the cost also conveniently discourages AI trains :P
gooooorge rush
looks interesting
Currently though it looks like foresight will work anywhere that aliens have been. I'd prefer it on infestation only in combination with infestation losing hive sight. Regardless though, I love the direction things are going.
I love the comparable but still asymmetric nature of passively cloaked drifters and marine scan. Marines can scan pretty much anywhere, whenever with not much aliens can do about it. Spycam drifters are easy to lose and easy to counter (obs spam!) but the payoff is far greater when they are skillfully used and not effectively countered (perma-cam!)
It also really adds to the anxious, "Kharra lurking everywhere" feeling that makes playing marines such a neat experience. I imagine the following scenario:
Marine walking along.... hears a drifter! Turns around..... nothing there.
Keeps walking... hears a drifter again. Turns around...... still nothing.
He pauses for a moment.... takes a few more steps forward before instantly turning around ready to fire!
DRIFTER RIGHT THERE
ENZYME CLOUD EVERYWHERE
SOUNDS OF FADE UN-BLINKING
HAAAAAAAAAAAAA-SLASH
In an instant, the drifter has re-cloaked in a corner and the fade has blinked away.
"Soldier lost."
Marine walking along.... hears a drifter! Turns around..... nothing there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just found myself laughing as I thought "what if drifters could Chuckle?" Ohhhh the mind games.