Sentry Spam Prevention
rhez
Join Date: 2005-05-14 Member: 51576Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2005-05-14 Member: 51576Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Limit total number allowed to the amount of players on your team</div>Pretty simple idea. Most games are going to be at least 6v6 and if your team has more sentries than people you're most likely turtleing. If the number of players drop you still get to keep the sentries.
If it were up to me I'd also put a limit of 3-4 sentries per power node.
Thoughts? Y/N?
If it were up to me I'd also put a limit of 3-4 sentries per power node.
Thoughts? Y/N?
Comments
I dont see this as a whole lot of fun, I want to be able to finish a game as its supposed to be. There should definately be a limit to how many turrets the marines can build, especially in cases like this.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/lof...hp/t115506.html" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/lof...hp/t115506.html</a>
This link doesn't quite work.
Ah yes, thanks.
Same subject, older thread.
I thought whips were supposed to be the alien equivalent of the ARC, if that's so then they should at least be able to stand up to sentries better.
They are not used in competitive games that much. In pubs they are sub par for the most part, but can sometime become a problem late game with turtle turret spam. Overall they are lame.
Plus turrets don't scale well. The more players you have the more turrets you will need to fend off those players....but with that many players it would be a huge waste of TRES. This is unlike hydras that do scale, since with more players there will be more gorges putting up hydras. Not to mention that hydras could soon not even cost PRES.
Turrets should be bought and placed by players. This will allow turrets to scale. You can even place a limit of one turret per player (similar to the 3 or so limit per gorge in the upcoming hydra change) which will help to negate any massive spam late game. This could even have the positive side effect of making turrets competitively viable.
I know this sounds blasphemous and goes against asymmetry doctrine, but keep asymmetry when it makes sense. This isn't even just about asymmetry, but it also concerns scale. Players placing mines works good right now, do it for turrets too. One of the design goals is that the commander does not damage players, yet turrets do that for the commander in a big way. The commander could still realign turrets, and he could even place one of his own (he is a player afterall). Maybe even add in a MAC ability to pick up and move turrets (players could also pick up and move their own turrets).
Regardless of whats done, something needs to be done....sentry turrets continue to feel a bit disconnected with the rest of the game.
Spores? Finding safe angles? Ranged attacks? Counterattacking other places after scouting the turrets early and recognizing that they're money not spent elsewhere?
There are a lot of ways to destroy/work around turret farms, but mostly what happens is people run into them and die, then get mad. Try commanding and playing a turret farming style, and you should be able to identify lots of sources of weakness to use when you play aliens.
<!--quoteo(post=1927562:date=Apr 20 2012, 03:20 AM:name=SideOfBeef)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SideOfBeef @ Apr 20 2012, 03:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1927562"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Plenty of games have mechanics that allow players to drag out a losing game, and that's usually solved by the community applying a bit of sportsmanship. Rather than messing with game mechanics, how about players learn to gg when they have no real chance of winning? Most other communities manage it, I don't see why this one can't.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is the game where 99% of pub players think they can win when the other team has the entire map under control and their main base is covered in green stuff that makes them cough their guts up (and if you recycle they'll carry a grudge against you forever).
As for the OP, you didn't explain the premise for your idea. What is the relationship between "number of players" and "number of turrets to be effective and fair"? Is there one? Can it be known? What factors does it depend on? You have to answer these questions and others before you come up with your solution.
It would seem bad game design to rely on players "playing fair" for games to reach satisfying conclusions.
I'm intrigued by the idea of marines placing personal turrets, however this would be a rather drastic change compared to a simple limit.
Its really not that drastic when you think about it. Marines can already place mines. Gorge players already place hydras. Its not outside the realm of what we've already been doing.
Effectively placing a hydra limit per gorge player is an elegant solution and it could work for turrets too. The problem with a hard limit is that in larger games you won't have enough turrets and in smaller games the limit is not enough. Plus TRES doesn't scale with players, and you naturally need more turrets with more opponents in the game. TRES is a bad resource type for a structure like this...it should really be paid by players (PRES scales with players). This is unlike an arms lab or a resource tower, since their effectiveness remains the same regardless of the number of players in the game (of course you can argue that their HP doesn't scale up with number of players).
1. BRING BACK ENERGY
2. MAKE TURRETS POWERFUL AGAIN
3. MAKE TURRETS USE ENERGY TO FIRE
So this way, you can have turrets defend the entire map if you want. however the more turrets firing, the faster the energy gets drained. And once that energy is gone, the no turret can fire.
Or you can put 1 or 2 turrets in a key location for which would be able to sustain fire, as the energy would regen as fast as it would drain for a few turrets.
Turrets will still be awesome at deterring 1-3 skulk ambushes, however a sustained ambushes or alien turret trickery would drain the comms energy.
Solves turtling (comm can still turret spam, but the turrets won't fire for long since it would put a big strain on the energy). ANd makes turrets awesome.
Do i get a cookie? :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
<!--quoteo(post=1987150:date=Oct 5 2012, 11:13 AM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Oct 5 2012, 11:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1987150"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My favorite form of prevention is creative use of the game economy to discourage constant sentry purchases by increasing the overall cost to produce them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+10
I don't know how many times i've said this, but the only good solution to 'spamming' is to double, or tripple the cost, it can still happen, but its hrder to do. and then everyones happy. :/
Also schkorp, you know better than i do that wont happen, uwe is detestibly determined to ignore any good suggestions made, ever, and replace them with horrid, unfun, ungood ideas. (hence the current turrets, hydras, lack of energy etc)