Feedback from Apr 21/22 Casts
Hugh
CameramanSan Francisco, CA Join Date: 2010-04-18 Member: 71444NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts
CameramanSan Francisco, CA Join Date: 2010-04-18 Member: 71444NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts
<div class="IPBDescription">Let's all work together to improve them!</div>Hi everyone, this thread is for discussion of the competitive casting from last weekend (Apr 21/22). All feedback is welcome, so that we can push NS2 casting even further in the future!
I'll start: The sound problems are becoming impossibly annoying. Fixing sound issues is going to be the number one priority for next weekend.
I'll start: The sound problems are becoming impossibly annoying. Fixing sound issues is going to be the number one priority for next weekend.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
-Leto
<a href="http://www.twitch.tv/naturalselection2/b/315767009" target="_blank">Mr vs 420</a>
ignore the title in the stream saying the wrong team names.
<a href="http://www.twitch.tv/naturalselection2/b/315767009" target="_blank">Mr vs 420</a>
ignore the title in the stream saying the wrong team names.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks Alchemy I will add that to the list!
I would like to see more casters get on the scene, however, if only to spare Hugh's vocal cords. More casters would also be especially useful during a tournament, so there could be multiple games going on at once.
Leto and Zeikko have also done a great job, hope they continue to return.
Edit: Hugh we, the NS2 Community, demand your shirt and a plushie of both you, and Leto.
Signed,
The NS2 Community
*namely, your NS2HD admirers <3
Would be easier to track the current score that way, i noticed that you had some problems remembering the score last weekend.
But left side team info panel can be transparent, i think u gonna develop it soon. Also icons are really big.
Small transparent icon of aliens and weapons can be good.
Also there should be replay of some event from a 3rd person view. e.g. When armory / base down, when a player kills more than 3 players in 10 seconds, when hive down, etc.
And much more team speaks please :D Drive us to the game stress :D
<b>You made a big difference. You have a a game interviewwer engine also . I'm sure this will be perfect soon.</b>
And the new narrator is also professional.
My two critiques:
Your labeling needs some work. Constantly hearing D|S refered to as arc or exertus refered to as all-in (in casts and on stream // youtube video titles) is really confusing. I don't blame you as all casters go through this, specially when they have to cast 10 or 20 games for a few hours in a row. Definitely something to work on, though.
Watch the minimap!!!! While you're talking or showing how the skulks attacked, watch the minimap for action! The minimap will always tell you what's going on. There are 12 separate entities doing stuff in the game so it is impossible for one screen to capture all the action, but sometimes big things get missed. Use lulls to talk about strategy or recap why a team is in a good/bad position and be ready to cut yourself off to show an important battle. Or show the action while you talk about the previous battle if it's that urgent.
I'm enjoying both playing and watching the games. :)
Many of the scores said in the cast were incorrect. Big factor in this was that there were two times the casters thought the wrong team won when there was a base trade going on. Or atleast they didn't have a consensus and a clear idea who won the game.
I think it would be good if spectators would also get aliens win / marines win ending music and icon to display the winner. This is especially true in a tight basetrade situation when CC and hive go down at exactly the same time. This causes alien player's client side kill icons to show that CC was destroyed before hive and marine's kill icons to show that hive was destroyed before CC. The ending screen seems to be triggered by the server though and is the final result of the game.
But left side team info panel can be transparent, i think u gonna develop it soon. Also icons are really big.
Small transparent icon of aliens and weapons can be good.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
UWE may be credited for creating this awesome game, but credits for the 'insight' skycam should be given to dghelneshi.
But left side team info panel can be transparent, i think u gonna develop it soon. Also icons are really big.
Small transparent icon of aliens and weapons can be good.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1929187:date=Apr 24 2012, 01:43 PM:name=Scrajm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scrajm @ Apr 24 2012, 01:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929187"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->UWE may be credited for creating this awesome game, but credits for the 'insight' skycam should be given to dghelneshi.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Huze did the player and tech point frames. :) But yeah, feedback to Insight in this thread please: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=117794" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=117794</a>
<!--quoteo(post=1929182:date=Apr 24 2012, 01:04 PM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Apr 24 2012, 01:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929182"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Watch the minimap!!!! While you're talking or showing how the skulks attacked, watch the minimap for action! The minimap will always tell you what's going on. There are 12 separate entities doing stuff in the game so it is impossible for one screen to capture all the action, but sometimes big things get missed. Use lulls to talk about strategy or recap why a team is in a good/bad position and be ready to cut yourself off to show an important battle. Or show the action while you talk about the previous battle if it's that urgent.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is especially true with base trades. <b>Always</b> keep an eye on the map to see what's going on. When I am casting, I'm always trying to watch something else than my co-caster if there's anything important happening, even though two guys commentating on what's actually on the stream is fine by itself. (I kind of screwed up completely on my cast with Hugh :( )
The new tech point frames on the bottom part of the screen also make it much easier to follow base trades, even if you both watch the same base.
Concerning mixups, I've also heard a lot of "marine hive", "marines will now encounter the marines in XXX" and similar phrases. I know, it's very hard to stay concentrated, especially after 7 hours of casting. :)
the caster opinions during the game were perfect for building in some excitement to the cast - 'team made bad decision, can they pull it out?' that kind of thing.
even with some of the fundamental gaps in the gameplay balance right now, I really enjoyed watching them.
Skycam is only getting better and better and makes it so much easier to keep track, so major props! I cant wait to cast again myself, it just adds a whole new level of excitement for me to this game.
Great job to internetslive I have to say, he was on top of everything that happened. Not a bullet was shot without his telling/showing us.
Regardless I have watched just about every cast and they are enjoyable.
-Definitely be more aware of minimap.
-Take full advantage of the players overlay in insight. (e.g. Hugh caught a 5 lerk rush in All-In vs 420 only just when the lerks arrived at marine base, but it was apparent this was happening from player overlay for maybe 2 minutes. And leto did not seem to notice it at all.)
-As cool as it is to show the freelook while fighting fades or lerks. The health bars on player overlay mean a lot more than anything else. Maybe a compromise of just quickly switching back to skycam mode to view player health after a lerk or fade runs to give us a better idea of whats happening. Insight could just have player overlays available at all times as well, that would be nice.
-Also maybe make note of some major timings in 205 so you can just check up on aliens / marines to see how far along they are with those tech timings and then you can make really meaningful criticisms like "oh aliens got a late cara due to marine pressure on rts."
Some good timings to know are:
1:45-2:00 Alien rts should be good to go, or under heavy pressure at this point.
*2:30-3:30 Carapace (Depending on whether 3-4-5 starting rts)
*5:50 Augmentation complete (Can comment about use of mist perhaps, or just whether they used their mists efficiently to get lerks, fades, cara, maturity up simultaneously)
-A very b205 specific thing to note would be, if marines dont actually lose their first 2 rts by accidently building them before first two engagements are over. You could make note of that sort of thing since it costs marines nothing to drop ghost rts.
Ps. Keep up the good work!
Pss. Moar minimap use plz!
I hope we can keep the pace up and make the NS2 competitive scene bigger every week!
If you want to talk to me personally, here's some contact information below. I promise I'll read every email and every message I get. Thanks
<a href="http://www.twitter.com/Leto" target="_blank">http://www.twitter.com/Leto</a>
Letoatreidesofcaladan@gmail.com
Steam: [Dr]Leto
Generally I feel like strategy/what's happening overall should be more emphasized than micro battles.
Oh and also I don't think you should ever leave the overview mode. Especially now with the played health bars added, it's the only reasonable way to watch the game IMHO
- the drawing things can be good in theory, but I have yet to see a good use for them. Frankly they're really just annoying and add nothing to a cast. Same for showing your face. Consider that not everyone might be thrilled by seeing that as much as you are ;)
- Cocasters are always good. casting alone is not an easy feat. Not sure about the interviews. Not really if they delay the games. Same thing about instant replay: Please don't overdo it, just too easy to miss things going on i fear.
In theory, it can work. For example you've been using it to simplify the map control which might be useful to people who don't play the game or are unfamiliar with the map. However it needs to be used in bare moderation and highlight an important event, for me to find it enjoyable.
Leto, you're doing an amazing job here. Very fun commentator to listen to.