Natural Selection 2 News Update - Build 206 released

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Comments

  • internetexplorerinternetexplorer Join Date: 2011-10-13 Member: 127255Members
    Just played a pub game where we overloaded the map with <i>stuff </i>and had the server on its knees in about 15 minutes. Seems like too many big changes at once!
  • PyromaniacPyromaniac Join Date: 2009-02-20 Member: 66498Members
    edited April 2012
    Having clogs and hydras is just complicating the more refined role of OCs that both did damage and were sizable structures that clipped players. They also had the gameplay element of pressuring players with slow moving large projectiles so they had to dodge them with skill and greatly improved in effectiveness when alien player presence prevented marines from dodging them effectively instead of essentially always having a damage over time effect.

    The points grissi made are good too. Wave respawn and gorges not using res is bad.
  • twilitebluetwiliteblue bug stalker Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited April 2012
    So many exciting changes in build 206!

    A few issues I've noticed so far:
    - Earlier Mini Cysts are removed once the Gorge exceeds the limit. Mini Cysts need to be easily distinguishable from normal Cysts, so Khammanders will not take them for granted (or risk losing structures to vanishing Mini Cysts).
    Alternatively, Mature Mini Cysts could be removed from a Gorge's burden, and become permanent.

    - There is no "exit" key in the Alien build menu. (I guess the menu is still WIP)

    - Alien build menu is when an unbuilt structure is selected, which is a minor nuisance.

    - Newborn Harvesters now sit idly for quite a long time (~20 sec) even when their health bars are fully filled. Mist appears to have no effect on reducing this idle time. Gorges can help them grow, however.


    I love the new Gorge! Clog ability and free structures make my inner child squeal with joy. Although the increment of structure cap per additional hive could be toned down a bit, especially because the structures are free.

    PS. I think Drifters should continue to be allowed to morph into Hives (without infestation).
  • RaewyrRaewyr Join Date: 2012-04-24 Member: 151022Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1929932:date=Apr 26 2012, 04:29 AM:name=Grissi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Grissi @ Apr 26 2012, 04:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929932"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure if Charlie is trolling us or not because this is so bad.

    This is just ridicules, sure it will be fun for awhile but its very bad for the general gameplay of the game. Sorry if I sound bit harsh but some things just go to far and this is just stupid. Why would you ever make a game with so much focus on economy and then allow players to get powerful buildings for free.

    Every game will be spammed with hydras and marines can't counter it. It doesn't matter if you lose the hydras since you can just rebuild them any time you want. Hydras are already pretty strong but now they are free, I don't know how anyone thought this was a good idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    True! This change is really horrible!
  • FloricedFloriced Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7129Members
    I request a 3 second lockdown of commander building at game start to reduce initial chaos and to give a better response from new commad players.

    And remove bilebomb from manbat :)
  • internetexplorerinternetexplorer Join Date: 2011-10-13 Member: 127255Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1929936:date=Apr 25 2012, 10:35 PM:name=Pyromaniac)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pyromaniac @ Apr 25 2012, 10:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929936"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Having clogs and hydras is just complicating the more refined role of OCs that both did damage and were sizable structures that clipped players. They also had the gameplay element of pressuring players with slow moving large projectiles so they had to dodge them with skill and greatly improved in effectiveness when alien player presence prevented marines from dodging them effectively instead of essentially always having a damage over time effect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Clogs really just seem like a bad idea in so many ways. I'd be interested to see how much load they're putting on clients/servers to do what could be done so much simpler, all for the sake of roping in minecraft players
  • Unknown_SoldierUnknown_Soldier Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6395Members
    Did the Hydra get a buff, or is it still weak when it comes to tracking/damage?


    (Or are sheer numbers provided by the change making up for the poor stats?)
  • oldassgamersoldassgamers Join Date: 2011-02-02 Member: 80033Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    Very good patch, you made right decision charles. I love the new way of droping buildings. Feels so much smoother now. AMAZING !!!!!!!
  • killer monkeykiller monkey Join Date: 2010-02-26 Member: 70743Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1929944:date=Apr 25 2012, 10:42 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Apr 25 2012, 10:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929944"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Clogs really just seem like a bad idea in so many ways. I'd be interested to see how much load they're putting on clients/servers to do what could be done so much simpler, all for the sake of roping in minecraft players<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    What do you mean "roping in" it's a barricade, nothing more
  • Squeal_Like_A_PigSqueal_Like_A_Pig Janitor Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 66Members, Super Administrators, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer
    <!--quoteo(post=1929925:date=Apr 26 2012, 02:23 AM:name=c0ke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (c0ke @ Apr 26 2012, 02:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929925"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the gorges will swim in resources!
    and everyone would just go gorge, build some stuff (to use the available structures) and directly become some other/higher lifeform<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    We are most likely going to make it so the stuff a Gorge builds dissolves and goes away after a certain amount of time that the player is no longer Gorge. That should make it so players can't just evolve to Gorge, spam all their structures types, and then change to a different lifeform. It was discussed but did not make it into this patch.
    <!--quoteo(post=1929927:date=Apr 26 2012, 02:26 AM:name=bLink`)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bLink` @ Apr 26 2012, 02:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929927"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh, I was wondering what they do. I tried to get 20 drifters and attack 1 marine, it didn't do anything lol.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hmm, that's odd, as far as I know, they should still be able to attack (though not do a lot of damage). But maybe that isn't working properly.

    --Cory
  • TinkerTinker Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14395Members
    Just wanted to respond to all the 20 sec spawn hate. If you can breathe for a little bit spawning in waves is actually advantageous for team play. 20 seconds may or may not be too long, let's wait and see.
  • KoruyoKoruyo AUT Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited April 2012
    Whats coming next patch? Some 10pres marine starting equipment that allows you to place 3-9 free sentrys per player on the map?

    Pretty great idea for a resource based game!


    (even if it would de spawn after a minute, beeing able to instantly place 3-9 hydras (depending on hives) for 10pres is ridiculous)
  • DeadzoneDeadzone Join Date: 2003-07-03 Member: 17911Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Just played a few games, and I have to add it's still incredibly easy for the Alien team to all go fade at once and murder the marine team. We could have all just as easily gone onos at that point.

    Love that the gorges can play around with structure placement now! They don't seem overpowered at all, since the marines could nade EVERYTHING down very easily. Arcs would still clear everything out as well.

    Clogs seem very pointless. Three grenades and it breaks. I'm not complaining - I'm actually not too much of a fan of limiting player movement with a hard wall. However, the amount of time it takes to set up that wall just goes to waste in a few seconds. That and it's easy to get stuck inside your own clog.

    Alien respawning in waves does seem to give the marines a bit of a breather. I noticed it still does take eggs into account, since I had a skulk spawn on me after a hive died.
  • Unknown_SoldierUnknown_Soldier Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6395Members
    I've only played a single game so far after the patch, but I absolutely <b>hate</b> how hard the Onos was nerfed (or at least it feels like it). The passive charge had it's problems before because most maps have so many twists and turns, but the new charge is useless for that same reason. You can't use it effectively in most situations because there's very few areas that are long enough.

    Moreover it wasn't that hard for Marines to chase an Onos previous; but now it's just ridiculously easy. The Onos can either turn around to stomp and hope that the Marines don't know how to hit the spacebar, or try charging ahead in which chase they're going to slow to the pace of a snail.
  • botchiballbotchiball Join Date: 2003-04-24 Member: 15810Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1929937:date=Apr 25 2012, 09:36 PM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Apr 25 2012, 09:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929937"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm excited to play build 206!

    A few issues I've noticed so far:
    - Earlier Mini Cysts are removed once the Gorge exceeds the limit. Mini Cysts need to be easily distinguishable from normal Cysts, so Khammanders will not take them for granted (or risk losing structures to vanishing Mini Cysts).

    - There is no "exit" key in the Alien build menu. (I guess the menu is still WIP)

    - Alien build menu is when an unbuilt structure is selected, which is a minor nuisance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Strongly agree about the mini-cysts being "recycled" and causing cyst problems. Not a huge issue, but an annoying one none-the-less. Could mature mini-cysts become permanent true cysts? That way after sitting around for a long time where the gorge has moved on, it wont matter that the gorge is still building.

    Also found it annoying how cysts don't pump out infestation unless connected to the chain -> ruins the gorge ability to rush support somewhere ahead of the khamm.

    The Clogs are pretty fun, but annoying to place and lose all value once gls come out. I'd rather see them work more like webbing did in NS1 (two points that connect together) - even if it meant you were only able to place one or two. Or maybe they snapped together more like lego blocks so I didn't have to peer around the block at a certain angle to build something on its side. I like the versatility, their just uncomfortable to use.. maybe with more time that will go away.

    Really want to see some sort of gorge response to GLs now -> mini whips maybe? Healspray reflecting grenades? Thats a joke, but for serious, gls ruin a gorge fort in seconds.


    <!--quoteo(post=1929956:date=Apr 25 2012, 09:55 PM:name=Tinker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tinker @ Apr 25 2012, 09:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929956"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just wanted to respond to all the 20 sec spawn hate. If you can breathe for a little bit spawning in waves is actually advantageous for team play. 20 seconds may or may not be too long, let's wait and see.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I'm not big on the raging above, but I do agree that the spawn time is a bit long. Also, if your eggs are dying, it wont really help to spawn later.
  • Wonderboy2402Wonderboy2402 Join Date: 2011-08-28 Member: 118911Members
    Maybe gorges could get another cyst that is sorta like place able as reactive armor... Think like a little bouncy betty mine, when it senses a grenade coming in on a structure like the goo wall, it will explode and shoot acid and shell fragments to connect with the incoming grenade, detonating it and reducing the nades damage, but not preventing all of it?
  • DJPenguinDJPenguin Useless Join Date: 2003-07-29 Member: 18538Members
    you're all forgetting the best update in this patch..


    NEW STEAM ICON
  • SecuritySecurity Join Date: 2005-01-07 Member: 33133Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    After first testing I have to say, I don't think I like the drifter change.
    The old way kinda kept the commander from massively spamming structures everywhere, like it is now.

    Gorge structures should probably not be free either. Maybe cost less res though.

    For the sake of server performance alone.
  • invTempestinvTempest Join Date: 2003-03-02 Member: 14223Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    <!--quoteo(post=1929932:date=Apr 25 2012, 09:29 PM:name=Grissi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Grissi @ Apr 25 2012, 09:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929932"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure if Charlie is trolling us or not because this is so bad.

    This is just ridicules, sure it will be fun for awhile but its very bad for the general gameplay of the game. Sorry if I sound bit harsh but some things just go to far and this is just stupid. Why would you ever make a game with so much focus on economy and then allow players to get powerful buildings for free.

    Every game will be spammed with hydras and marines can't counter it. It doesn't matter if you lose the hydras since you can just rebuild them any time you want. Hydras are already pretty strong but now they are free, I don't know how anyone thought this was a good idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Pretty sure he actually thinks these are good ideas. It's what happens when the developer doesn't play his own game.
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    It's way too easy for 1 marine to kite an onos and get him killed.

    Please make the charge a burst of speed like ns1 had, at least. Charging is way too slow and clumsy atm.
  • cmc5788cmc5788 Join Date: 2009-10-06 Member: 68959Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1929954:date=Apr 25 2012, 08:54 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Apr 25 2012, 08:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929954"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We are most likely going to make it so the stuff a Gorge builds dissolves and goes away after a certain amount of time that the player is no longer Gorge. That should make it so players can't just evolve to Gorge, spam all their structures types, and then change to a different lifeform. It was discussed but did not make it into this patch.
    --Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    So a player that builds any sort of meaningful Hive defenses will be forced to choose between going Gorge for the whole game or having all their stuff dissolve? Or am I misunderstanding?

    It seems like just keeping the res cost on Hydras is a much better idea across the board.
  • ellnicellnic Join Date: 2010-07-19 Member: 72559Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1929897:date=Apr 26 2012, 02:56 AM:name=bLink`)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bLink` @ Apr 26 2012, 02:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929897"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Drifter doesn't do anything. Is hydra really free?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yes, along with mini cysts and the new clog. But theres a limit to how many and this increases with more hives.
  • internetexplorerinternetexplorer Join Date: 2011-10-13 Member: 127255Members
    edited April 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1929973:date=Apr 25 2012, 11:34 PM:name=cmc5788)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cmc5788 @ Apr 25 2012, 11:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929973"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So a player that builds any sort of meaningful Hive defenses will be forced to choose between going Gorge for the whole game or having all their stuff dissolve? Or am I misunderstanding?

    It seems like just keeping the res cost on Hydras is a much better idea across the board.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    To me, the way it should end up is like with the Engineer in TF2.

    If you want to contribute hydras to the map, play the gorge class. When you're not playing the gorge class, you don't contribute hydras to the map.
    Hydras aren't necessary or sufficient for defence (and they never should be, since they're almost entirely devoid of skill and player interactivity), and the gorge is (should be?) for more than making hydras.

    The res system would work fine if they added the recycling ability that came in with this patch. Was that playtested? I feel like too many changes were made at once (just like with the "new alien tech tree" update).
  • PekermanPekerman Join Date: 2010-03-07 Member: 70876Members
    edited April 2012
    so what do gorges do with their pres? i think hydras and cysts should still cost pres to prevent spamming and pres gathering. that way hydras and cysts could stay there even if you die or change your lifeform because you payed for them-
    now you can gorge and place structures for free till you have enough resources to evolve into other lifeforms.

    i do like free clogs though they are useful and make the gorge noticeable in the game.
  • Unknown_SoldierUnknown_Soldier Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6395Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1929972:date=Apr 26 2012, 12:27 AM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Apr 26 2012, 12:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929972"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's way too easy for 1 marine to kite an onos and get him killed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    +1
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    edited April 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1929960:date=Apr 25 2012, 07:13 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Apr 25 2012, 07:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929960"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Pretty great idea for a resource based game!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    He was the only class who had to pay with pres to use his weapons/abilities? (comm is diff, obviously) Only class with any pres sink! it forces you into perma gorge, just like comming can sometimes.

    Do you want blinking to cost pres, too? o.0
    Gorge having free abilities has been discussed previously in these forums to a much better reception. Interesting that so many are screaming fire <i>now</i>.


    <!--quoteo(post=1929973:date=Apr 25 2012, 07:34 PM:name=cmc5788)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cmc5788 @ Apr 25 2012, 07:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929973"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So a player that builds any sort of meaningful Hive defenses will be forced to choose between going Gorge for the whole game or having all their stuff dissolve?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <b>Just like any class that you want to have a "meaningful", lasting impact on the direction of the game, you must continue to play it.</b> Be it a fade or lerk keeping pressure on the frontlines, or gorges in the back , or skulks ambushing in preparation. This really is fixing the previously only remaining exception to the rule.
  • rantologyrantology Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143750Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    edited April 2012
    With all the free gorge stuff I think they should be bumped up to a 20 or even 25 pres lifeform. 10 is just way too cheap for how powerful/spammable the hydra farms are. And even then I really do not feel that free gorge structures are a good idea, it makes killing gorge sandcastles just feel like a giant waste of time/ammo for marines. It's frustrating and the gorge can put his stuff in the dumbest places imaginable and not get punished in any way for it. The gorge stuff NEEDS to cost pres.

    I like the other changes though, +1000 for removing the onos gore knockdown.


    edit: I lied, the one other change I'm really not that big a fan of is 20sec respawn timer. Even if that does balance the game (which it does not I don't think), <b>who on earth</b> wants to wait 20 seconds to respawn?
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    edited April 2012
    As much as I love 1-2hour games of NS, I thought the design principle behind NS2 was to remove really long games and aim for 20-40 minute games. The new build has games lasting 1-2hours, as players are unable to finish the game off. Things are balanced, and the gameplay is manic and fun, but I think you need to bring down the gametime somehow, I just don't have the time to play games that long too often..

    Also I've noticed a minor framerate drop in this build. The game is next to unplayable for me. Here's hoping the next build brings some noticable improvements. If it adds more features which impair performance, I might have to give NS2 a break until my computer can handle it better.
  • rantologyrantology Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143750Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    <!--quoteo(post=1929987:date=Apr 25 2012, 10:16 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Apr 25 2012, 10:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929987"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->He was the only class who had to pay with pres to use his weapons/abilities? (comm is diff, obviously) Only class with any pres sink! it forces you into perma gorge, just like comming can sometimes.

    Do you want blinking to cost pres, too? o.0
    Gorge having free abilities has been discussed previously in these forums to a much better reception. Interesting that so many are screaming fire <i>now</i>.




    <b>Just like any class that you want to have a "meaningful", lasting impact on the direction of the game, you must continue to play it.</b> Be it a fade or lerk keeping pressure on the frontlines, or gorges in the back , or skulks ambushing in preparation. This really is fixing the previously only remaining exception to the rule.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You can't compare the gorge structures to fades and lerks. Both of those rely on skill, positioning and the player's attention to be successful. Hydras, cysts and clogs are "fire and forget" mechanics that result in powerful, static defenses that cost the player absolutely NOTHING. You can literally go gorge, drop your free stuff right outside of the marines base or in a particularly risky front-line position and the peace it- and get punished in absolutely no way. I don't even think what cory said is going to help much, either (that they will disappear after you cease to be a gorge for x amount of time).

    Saying it's equivalent to blink to costing pres might have been an ok comparison if you said it's like having healspray cost pres, but not to hydras. They are not a player ability or weapon, you don't have to aim them, you don't even have to pay any attention to them at all. That's like saying once the comm researches mines all the marines should get free mines.
  • KhyronKhyron Join Date: 2012-02-02 Member: 143308Members
    Straight up, without having played yet, good work on getting rid of drifters. I really like the idea of promoting infestation as the 'source' of alien buildings and drifters were counter to that. I was hoping that when infestation covers over a resource node that a little nub would form which you could evolve into the harvester. But getting rid of the drifters was a big step foward either way. Maybe drifters have a place as an animation to the hive. Little bug-like things squirming around or maybe carrying the eggs from the hive to a spot on the ground nearby.
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