analysing the flamethrower
Venatos
Join Date: 2012-03-31 Member: 149762Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
Join Date: 2012-03-31 Member: 149762Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
i am focusing here at the damaging aspect of the flamethrower as the additional functions are situational, much like the use of a welder.
to begin with let me state, that the rifle without any upgrades has a dps of 180/s (normal damage).
with the damage over time aspect of the flamethrower i just assume the best case scenario.
(the flamethrower does 2dps for 6 seconds(=12) per hit [up to 20 of these stack at the target])
the instant damage per hit is 10 and the firerate is 0.5= 2hits per second= 20dps [thats the same dps as parasite]
as the alien that just killed us continues to burn he suffers over the next 6 seconds additional 24damage(12 damage overtime per hit)
if we add that to the damage done per hit(we are dead, but still did the damage) that nets us 44dps.[gorge spit has 50dps]
you might notice, that i compare the flamer to alien ranged "attacks", thats because no other ranged attack is that weak.
the values above do not take hide armor into account which has been confirmed to affect flame damage(supposedly only the direct damage). [onos back to hide5 atm = half direct damage=10dps]
i am not aware of any "flamedamge multipliers" like *2 or *3, if there are, please let me know.
so you are thinking now hey the flamethrower is a damage over time construct, these flames stack!
ok lets do the math: after 6 seconds of continues hits you are at the optimum stacksize, which is 12.(obviously a stationary target) at this point the stacks do additional 24 dps to your instant 20, so we are back at the 44dps... funny coincidence lol >
at this point you can argue, that i added the damage over time effect into the direct damage at the example at the beginning of the post, so lets do that:
this also assumes that you continue to fire after 6 seconds and does not take into account the lower dps up until 6 seconds:
at the 6 second mark we have 12 stacks at the target, every second after 6, 2 stacks run out and 2 new are placed, so:
12 stacks doing 12 damage = 144 damage, that looks more like it yes? NO we can only count half of that, because after the first second the damage over time stacks start running out. so we dont have the full damage of the 6second stack at our disposal.
adding the 20instant dps we get 92dps....
to bring in some more context, your average dps if you realy manage to stay alive and hit continuesly for 6 seconds would still be 68dps.
all these numbers dont take into account realoadtimes or the special abilitys of the flamethrower like gasburning or energydraining.
at 30 pres (or even the 25 that are planed i think) with that short range i would argue, that the flamethrower should be in the dps range of the starting rifle within the first 2 seconds even with that special abilitys.
only adjusting the firerate from 0.5 to 0.1 would get us:
100 direct damage per second + 20 direct stackingdamage(10stacks/s) = 120dps
or counting the fullstackdamage even if its done after that second = 240dps
at a max stacksize of 20(reached after 2 seconds):
100 direct damage per second + 40 direct stackingdamage(10stacks/s) = 140dps
or counting the fullstackdamage even if its done after that 2second = 320dps
remember here, that the real dps is 140/s that 320 is an optimiced value incorporating exactly 2seconds of continues hits + a 6 second wait! if you hit longer or shorter or only now and then, that numer shrinks very fast and to top it of > dps of lvl3 shotgun= 288 and from the planed minigun= 416.6 at a cost of 30Pres.
as we all have seen lerks and skulks pass through a constant stream of flames, because of the low firerate i petition that the firerate of 0.1 should be implemented with adjustments to the energydrain per hit.
kind regards,
Venatos
to begin with let me state, that the rifle without any upgrades has a dps of 180/s (normal damage).
with the damage over time aspect of the flamethrower i just assume the best case scenario.
(the flamethrower does 2dps for 6 seconds(=12) per hit [up to 20 of these stack at the target])
the instant damage per hit is 10 and the firerate is 0.5= 2hits per second= 20dps [thats the same dps as parasite]
as the alien that just killed us continues to burn he suffers over the next 6 seconds additional 24damage(12 damage overtime per hit)
if we add that to the damage done per hit(we are dead, but still did the damage) that nets us 44dps.[gorge spit has 50dps]
you might notice, that i compare the flamer to alien ranged "attacks", thats because no other ranged attack is that weak.
the values above do not take hide armor into account which has been confirmed to affect flame damage(supposedly only the direct damage). [onos back to hide5 atm = half direct damage=10dps]
i am not aware of any "flamedamge multipliers" like *2 or *3, if there are, please let me know.
so you are thinking now hey the flamethrower is a damage over time construct, these flames stack!
ok lets do the math: after 6 seconds of continues hits you are at the optimum stacksize, which is 12.(obviously a stationary target) at this point the stacks do additional 24 dps to your instant 20, so we are back at the 44dps... funny coincidence lol >
at this point you can argue, that i added the damage over time effect into the direct damage at the example at the beginning of the post, so lets do that:
this also assumes that you continue to fire after 6 seconds and does not take into account the lower dps up until 6 seconds:
at the 6 second mark we have 12 stacks at the target, every second after 6, 2 stacks run out and 2 new are placed, so:
12 stacks doing 12 damage = 144 damage, that looks more like it yes? NO we can only count half of that, because after the first second the damage over time stacks start running out. so we dont have the full damage of the 6second stack at our disposal.
adding the 20instant dps we get 92dps....
to bring in some more context, your average dps if you realy manage to stay alive and hit continuesly for 6 seconds would still be 68dps.
all these numbers dont take into account realoadtimes or the special abilitys of the flamethrower like gasburning or energydraining.
at 30 pres (or even the 25 that are planed i think) with that short range i would argue, that the flamethrower should be in the dps range of the starting rifle within the first 2 seconds even with that special abilitys.
only adjusting the firerate from 0.5 to 0.1 would get us:
100 direct damage per second + 20 direct stackingdamage(10stacks/s) = 120dps
or counting the fullstackdamage even if its done after that second = 240dps
at a max stacksize of 20(reached after 2 seconds):
100 direct damage per second + 40 direct stackingdamage(10stacks/s) = 140dps
or counting the fullstackdamage even if its done after that 2second = 320dps
remember here, that the real dps is 140/s that 320 is an optimiced value incorporating exactly 2seconds of continues hits + a 6 second wait! if you hit longer or shorter or only now and then, that numer shrinks very fast and to top it of > dps of lvl3 shotgun= 288 and from the planed minigun= 416.6 at a cost of 30Pres.
as we all have seen lerks and skulks pass through a constant stream of flames, because of the low firerate i petition that the firerate of 0.1 should be implemented with adjustments to the energydrain per hit.
kind regards,
Venatos
Comments
Your statement mirrors my thoughts for the HMG+lmg combo. I wish the GL got reduced back to a stand alone weapon and require team work to use properly
This is maybe the 10th flamethrower thread that has been started by the community that I've seen alone
I think it's pretty obvious that nobody is happy with it in it's current state as being super expensive + super terrible
I secretly hope for this. Maybe post 1.0 when they have more time to devote to it.
anything else kills you before you kill it, least in my experience
I can attest to this
and I can attest to never seeing a Flame-Rush win
I've been a part of them and I've been the comm that fast teched to them via request of other teamates
This was also before the major buff for gorge
I'd imagine it would be immediate death now if you tried to pull it against even a lightly infested base
-
Can you do the same math but add the black armor bonuses? I mean I know its better aim and damage but I want to know how much.
Thanks
Thanks<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's only a very small amount, about two or three percent higher damage/second.
<!--quoteo(post=1931821:date=Apr 30 2012, 05:00 PM:name=Ryne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ryne @ Apr 30 2012, 05:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1931821"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your statement mirrors my thoughts for the HMG+lmg combo. I wish the GL got reduced back to a stand alone weapon and require team work to use properly<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1931838:date=Apr 30 2012, 05:42 PM:name=Industry)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Industry @ Apr 30 2012, 05:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1931838"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I secretly hope for this. Maybe post 1.0 when they have more time to devote to it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so... yey or ney on the firerate increase?
P.S. The grenade launcher should be stand alone and not an attachment. I will never let go of that in my heart of hearts. Ever.
P.S. The grenade launcher should be stand alone and not an attachment. I will never let go of that in my heart of hearts. Ever.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thank you for your input on the subject Industry, i respect your opinion.
just because i believe i proved my point mathematicaly, doesnt make it true and input is allways welcome.[believing = not knowing] ;)
PS: im with you on the nadelauncher, although with the current nades it would be way to powerfull.