[Comm] - I got your "Train Wreck" right here. . .
MaximumSquid
Join Date: 2010-07-20 Member: 72593Members
Join Date: 2010-07-20 Member: 72593Members
People are calling this the game breaker. . .
I ran this strat all morning and I got feedback from my own team saying things like "There's no reason to even play now" and feedback from the enemy team politely asking me to not run the strat for the current round
I give you Exhibit A: <a href="http://tinypic.com/r/2ijjner/6" target="_blank">http://tinypic.com/r/2ijjner/6</a> <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->"Skip to 2:58 for instant action"<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<i>(Team didn't know what I was doing; notice how badly we get slaughtered around 5:42, but how it has no effect on the game. . . we just keep coming)</i>
Exhibit B: <a href="http://tinypic.com/r/2nu29l1/6" target="_blank">http://tinypic.com/r/2nu29l1/6</a> <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->"Phase dropped late at 2:40"<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<i>(I tell Alien Team we are running the same strat, start phase research at 1:16, <u><b>we actually kill eggs this time</b></u>, and game ends at 3:50)</i>
The Strat was dubbed "IP Rush" by one of my teamates and it's completely game warping
I was greedy, but you can very comfortably run this strat with just 3 resource nodes:
Notice how 30 seconds into game 1 I could have started phase already and there was a Marine already hiding in Reactor Core at 1:30
If your under heavy pressure Marines can split up into 2 or 3 teams and go different routes so there is no way for the Alien team to properly stop them all
Someone always breaks threw, gets the phase up, and it's just a nonstop Marine Train for the remainder of the game
<i>
I didn't even really use scan. . .</i>
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update:
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People just coming in be sure to check out <a href="http://i46.tinypic.com/30ro0hu.png" target="_blank">this Screenshot</a> and read <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=118429&view=findpost&p=1935497" target="_blank">Post #12</a>
Essentially worst case scenario and still an overwhelming victory for Marines
Some people are asking for an organized game test which I'm hoping will finally put it to bed
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I ran this strat all morning and I got feedback from my own team saying things like "There's no reason to even play now" and feedback from the enemy team politely asking me to not run the strat for the current round
I give you Exhibit A: <a href="http://tinypic.com/r/2ijjner/6" target="_blank">http://tinypic.com/r/2ijjner/6</a> <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->"Skip to 2:58 for instant action"<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<i>(Team didn't know what I was doing; notice how badly we get slaughtered around 5:42, but how it has no effect on the game. . . we just keep coming)</i>
Exhibit B: <a href="http://tinypic.com/r/2nu29l1/6" target="_blank">http://tinypic.com/r/2nu29l1/6</a> <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->"Phase dropped late at 2:40"<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<i>(I tell Alien Team we are running the same strat, start phase research at 1:16, <u><b>we actually kill eggs this time</b></u>, and game ends at 3:50)</i>
The Strat was dubbed "IP Rush" by one of my teamates and it's completely game warping
I was greedy, but you can very comfortably run this strat with just 3 resource nodes:
Notice how 30 seconds into game 1 I could have started phase already and there was a Marine already hiding in Reactor Core at 1:30
If your under heavy pressure Marines can split up into 2 or 3 teams and go different routes so there is no way for the Alien team to properly stop them all
Someone always breaks threw, gets the phase up, and it's just a nonstop Marine Train for the remainder of the game
<i>
I didn't even really use scan. . .</i>
----
update:
----
People just coming in be sure to check out <a href="http://i46.tinypic.com/30ro0hu.png" target="_blank">this Screenshot</a> and read <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=118429&view=findpost&p=1935497" target="_blank">Post #12</a>
Essentially worst case scenario and still an overwhelming victory for Marines
Some people are asking for an organized game test which I'm hoping will finally put it to bed
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Comments
I suppose I should account for whether or not you're joking.
If you are then this was mildly amusing.
I can underline "All morning" in the original post if it helps
Only recorded the two most recent games after a series of wins that was more than long enough to convince me
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<u><b>Jayaris:</b></u>
I suppose it's too late to ask people to see it for themselves if they don't believe me
<i>It's not like the strat takes any skill</i>
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I can underline "All morning" in the original post if it helps
Only recorded the two most recent games after a series of wins that was more than long enough to convince me
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<u><b>Jayaris:</b></u>
I suppose it's too late for people to see it for themselves if they don't believe me
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It is settled! SuperPaxBros vs MaximumSquid using his strategy with pubs!
If anything, the only thing game breaking in competitive gathers i think would be the ridiculous range on phasegate pushback preventing aliens from pg camping and capitalizing on marine downtime.
Marines on the other hand had four/five res towers that were uncontested throughout most of the match. I was in reactor core pretty much uncontested for a long time before aliens even expanded their cysts. The Aliens were outplayed pretty much on every level. The game was over when Marines pressured the Alien team from both of their adjacent resource nodes.
Nevertheless, please give this strategy a shot during prime time hours. I would really like to see how successful or unsuccessful is this strategy.
Thank you for your time.
PS: Poopy
PSS: Rattata!
I'm honestly not even sure what the strategy was that is being claimed to be broken.
oh elodea, that gave me a hearty laugh, thank you.
This strat does have some merit. It was a strat used fairly often before in NS1, especially in more competitive pub servers. In fact, this coupled with siege... was almost unstoppable unless you had good fades who could kill faster than you could spawn. In short, my humble opinion is that in this NS2 build, with the longer alien spawn queues, this can work in certain situations... but is not a "game breaker". Aliens just need to learn how to counter this better with teamwork hax and a little more "smarts".
I will admit that in the 2 games I was in this morning, marines were relatively skill-stacked as the aliens were not very strong players. Marines won a lot of the 1v1/skirmishes, which really did skew the odds in the marines' favor. The other thing is that you had marines that understood that dying is okay. Many pub players still worry too much about their K:D ratio or dying... or whatever -- I've commed several games where marines just stood outside scared to go in to shoot hive because they would die -- they would rather fight the aliens outside the hive area, perhaps not really understanding the depth of the game dynamics that the win is based on killing hives or command chairs. Sometimes, you just have to go with wars of attrition to try and overwhelm/overpower the enemy -- that is, empty clip into hive, die, respawn, repeat... as many times as necessary.
It's really interesting to see how, over time, the evolution of strats in NS2 may be similar to the evolution of strats in NS1. ;)
Longest game running this strat so far by a long shot so let me list the horrors:
â— Marines go -1 for most of the early game
â— I notice people going afk around the 3 minute mark
â— First Phase gate dies before it can be built with nano
â— Second Phase gate dies 2 minutes into the assault <i>(3 people literally standing around in base that could of saved it. . . Just Wow. . .)</i>
â— We get Phase #3 and #4 down and I put batteries on them
â— <u><b>We still can't win</b></u>. . . 4 minutes later I put down 3 more Infantry portals
â— Team Moral continues to go down: "Comm can we get an armory or upgrades or something!?" <i>(<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6YfJZ9hxLQ&feature=related" target="_blank">What's going threw my head</a>)</i>
â— 8 Minutes into the assault Evolution still isn't dead and despite killing tons of fades one is still slapping the team around
â— Game ends. . . nearly every Alien has a positive score
I put my team threw hell just to prove my point. . .
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I will gladly show up for an organized game just pm me the info and when, but honestly do you even need me there?
Step 1: Observatory into Phase tech /w IP Spam
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Hive Explodes?
For the "True Experience" do it on a large 10+ player server
<i>Still haven't lost. . .</i>
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heh well i must be funnier than i thought. i dont actually think anything here is 'game breaking' including phasegate pushback. Don't like how it punishes you for simply attacking the phasegate out of the 'camping' range but thats a different issue and i don't think its 'game breaking'. Was just trying to analyse the strat and think about what if anything could possibly be 'game breaking' or causing the strategy to work so well for the OP :s (besides badlien teams).
Like, the weakest point of the phasegate suicide push thing here is the phasegate. If you can't take the phasegate, you obviously can't stop the marine flow. Likewise, the only reason why forcing beacons wouldn't work would be because of difficulty stopping marines flowing out of the pg.
Like, the weakest point of the phasegate suicide push thing here is the phasegate. If you can't take the phasegate, you obviously can't stop the marine flow. Likewise, the only reason why forcing beacons wouldn't work would be because of difficulty stopping marines flowing out of the pg.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wonder.
If coordinated enough, could a constant flow of marines through the phase gate ensure that it can't actually be taken down by melee aliens, nor the marines within the pushback range injured?
Yep. . . after that it's just basic math
On a 10 player server marines spawn something like 500% more often?
Someone can check my math, but the way I see it the Aliens need to at least start going 4 and 1 to even keep their heads above water at that point
You don't even need to be strategic and shoot eggs / evolution shells . . .
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<u><b>Arkanti:</b></u>
Wow. . . I didn't even think about that
The stampede denies their own Phase Gate from the Aliens
<i>This just keeps getting better and better</i>
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Thats my understanding. If marines respawn instantly, then aliens don't have a spare moment to attack the phase gates since always a marine to kill instead. Eventually you will grind down the alien hive through attrition rather than brains.
It does seem a bit stupid. There should be a cap for maximum marine spawn rate. Extra IPs should provide contingency rather than faster spawning.
Edit: Oh the bigger issue is phasegate pushback.... hmmm... Why was this introduced? Because marines were sick of dying on a camped gate?
Which would in turn create a constant flow.
The idea behind it is with alien group spawn, you really just spawn way too fast for the aliens to kill you.
207 and 206 opened up this strategy with nano build, phase push back, and alien group spawn.
but you definately chose the wrong video to post to try and make your point :p
marine had the whole map under control before the first phase was built .. so doesn't really say much lol
It's good to bring up as a problem, but I don't see it as a difficult or intrinsic one for the team to fix.
Think you have the best television?
<i>Guess again</i>
Our television is amazing; completely game changing. <u>You need to see this</u>.
I remember to combat this we used to have half the team go fades and harass the marines base taking out their obs, advanced armory, and anything else.. but with nano construct, fades damage vs. buildings, & lack of metabolize in NS2 that seems unlikely. I don't think aliens can do anything against this except maybe mass lerk.. spike down the PG (and I say spike because.. I was spectating some games yesterday and it seemed more effective than bilebomb??)
edit: realized robo was needed for a strat I mentioned, removed it
Got hive to 40%, but couldn't kill it and ledges nearby made it too easy for aliens to get right up on us before we died
Easy fix for next time with better placement of the phase gate if the hive is in cave
Got hive to 40%, but couldn't kill it and ledges nearby made it too easy for aliens to get right up on us before we died
Easy fix for next time with better placement of the phase gate if the hive is in cave<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was playing that game on the alien side. I knew exactly what was going on when I saw marines running out of that tunnel.
This is what I'm talking about when I say 'halfway decent alien team'. For example, I've had a ninja PG up in the area west of Cavern in a pub match for over 10min before. Does that mean that PG placement was OP? No, its just that the alien team was just that bad. In general, I see this as an effective pub tactic mostly because new players can't resist the urge to suicide into a marine position close to a hive. An alien team with a few decent players will quickly realize that instead of suiciding into the PG outpost, they should attack either a) the undefended rest of the map or b) the marine base to get them to be more defensive.