So it looks like with every patch we nudge a little closer towards NS 1. Interesting. Can't say that's a bad thing, can't say they haven't tried new things either. NS 1 was such a goddamn amazing game it's truly hard to improve upon it. Kudos for having the guts to 'revert' some design decisions when it is proven they weren't working out too well.
This is exactly the type of thing that should happen in a beta. Something not working the way we would like it to? Take a big swing and try to correct it, don't sweat the details yet.
can we still have the GL attachment? maybe as extra ammo clips. i.e. a researchable upgrade to let a marine hold 8 more LMG clips. or shorten the reload time of clips.
<!--quoteo(post=1940124:date=May 30 2012, 07:07 PM:name=Smasher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Smasher @ May 30 2012, 07:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1940124"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow awesome! (and in case it's a placeholder, as with the early mines, I hope the "real" one will have similar(ish) look to the old one)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, the real one will be based very heavily on the look of the NS1 GL
This is replacing the old GL(well the ns2 GL attachment) The reason for the change I believe was said is every choice needs an advantage and a compromise
With the current NS2 gl there is no compromise Its an LMG with a grenade launcher on it vs an LMG which is just an LMG
<!--quoteo(post=1940168:date=May 30 2012, 04:42 PM:name=goblin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (goblin @ May 30 2012, 04:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1940168"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->maybe the gl could have a attachment with a "shotgun" style shot with 1 or 2 shots<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I guess if it only launches grenades now, then the grenade will be on the primary fire button. What if alt-fire detonated a grenade at super close range, like 6 inches in front of the barrel? It would do some damage to the marine, but would be a last ditch weapon in case you were caught in close quarters. That way you still have the sacrifice with the weapon choice (grenades are slow, evadable, and only effective at range against certain enemies) but don't completely leave the GLer helpless, which IIRC is something the UWE team wanted to avoid.
rhombusLerk QueenJoin Date: 2011-06-23Member: 106055Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited May 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1940185:date=May 30 2012, 05:19 PM:name=Wolpertinger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wolpertinger @ May 30 2012, 05:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1940185"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now the retarded grenade behviour stands even more out, though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It'll be addressed, has already been submitted to Mantis.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I guess if it only launches grenades now, then the grenade will be on the primary fire button. What if alt-fire detonated a grenade at super close range, like 6 inches in front of the barrel? It would do some damage to the marine, but would be a last ditch weapon in case you were caught in close quarters. That way you still have the sacrifice with the weapon choice (grenades are slow, evadable, and only effective at range against certain enemies) but don't completely leave the GLer helpless, which IIRC is something the UWE team wanted to avoid.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This was tried already. It was incredibly overpowered.
I would say the Alt-Fire of the Grenade Launcher could manually trigger the grenade, where the grenade is at this moment. The US Army actually developed such a Grenade Launcher a couple of years ago. Terrefying weapon.
As long as we don't get this: <img src="http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/3382/mk47striker40automaticg.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1940207:date=May 30 2012, 05:05 PM:name=Wolpertinger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wolpertinger @ May 30 2012, 05:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1940207"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would say the Alt-Fire of the Grenade Launcher could manually trigger the grenade, where the grenade is at this moment....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
we tried exactly this as alt fire but it turned out to be simply too powerful
<!--quoteo(post=1934741:date=May 9 2012, 02:23 PM:name=weezl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (weezl @ May 9 2012, 02:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934741"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Suggestion for the GL problem:
-Add a standalone and dedicated GL! -Make the GL-attachment (GL-A) a weaker type of attack!
The "main" GL would be the hard-hitter/demolition, with long fuse-time, long range and large damage - just like in NS1! The current GL-A would be a weaker type tactical-support with short fuse; and thereby short range, and with smaller damage. Then there's a bunch of tweaks I personally would like to do to the GL-A, that might be some brainstorming for you...
-Maybe make it explode on contact (like GL-A was when first introduced into ns2). This would definitely differentiate the two GL:s, the demolitions GL would have the classic ns1 explode-on-contact-with-enemy and be more used as a siege-weapon. While the tactical GL-A would (with appriate dmg ofc) be much more practical versus lifeforms. -As far as structure-dmg goes, have it only be effective against "small" structures, basically hydras+cysts (maybe a little less vs hydras). -Versus players, it shouldn't 1-shot a skulk! Maybe 2 shot skulk when no upg, w1 makes it 1-shot skulk, cara makes it 2-shot again, w2 makes it 1-shot again. This way there would be an arms-race between the two. Tradeoffs. -Maybe have it be less effective vs onos (but in return he's MUCH easier to hit and target-magnet), and only slightly less effective vs fade, because both are "bigger" lifeforms. Skulk/gorge/lerk/ take full dmg. ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would be nice if one could hold the LMB to build up speed for the grenade firing. The longer it is held, the faster it will fly, in a straighter line.
Maybe Alt-Fire could project the path the grenade would take.
Or the Alt-Fire would fire a dumb grenade projectile which doesn't explode, that fires very fast, but it is only good to stun a skulk, or stop an Onos from moving.
Now after actually getting to play with it, I just want to say it feels so much more natural and beefy being a standalone again. I am glad my dream was finally realized! Props to UWE for listening to community (and I also assume PT feedback) on this one.
I would like to see the projectile sped up a little bit and be a little less floaty, but using it in game was satisfying and I found I could defend myself against skulks just fine by pulling out the pistol.
<!--quoteo(post=1940228:date=May 30 2012, 06:43 PM:name=Wolpertinger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wolpertinger @ May 30 2012, 06:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1940228"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It would be nice if one could hold the LMB to build up speed for the grenade firing. The longer it is held, the faster it will fly, in a straighter line.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
oh you mean like a direct ripoff of the sticky launcher in tf2?
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1940238:date=May 31 2012, 12:02 AM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ May 31 2012, 12:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1940238"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can you fix the whips as well? They are useless against grenades now, not sure why.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Whips smacking grenades was only implemented to prevent the old grenade launcher attachment from being completely overpowered. With the GL now being standalone, there's actually no reason why the whips should still be able to throw the grenades back at all.
<!--quoteo(post=1940210:date=May 30 2012, 11:08 PM:name=Sewlek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sewlek @ May 30 2012, 11:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1940210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->we tried exactly this as alt fire but it turned out to be simply too powerful<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
(and in case it's a placeholder, as with the early mines, I hope the "real" one will have similar(ish) look to the old one)
And the ns1 GL was the best weapon ever!
(and in case it's a placeholder, as with the early mines, I hope the "real" one will have similar(ish) look to the old one)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, the real one will be based very heavily on the look of the NS1 GL
--Cory
The reason for the change I believe was said is every choice needs an advantage and a compromise
With the current NS2 gl there is no compromise
Its an LMG with a grenade launcher on it vs an LMG which is just an LMG
maybe the gl could have a attachment with a "shotgun" style shot with 1 or 2 shots
I guess if it only launches grenades now, then the grenade will be on the primary fire button. What if alt-fire detonated a grenade at super close range, like 6 inches in front of the barrel? It would do some damage to the marine, but would be a last ditch weapon in case you were caught in close quarters. That way you still have the sacrifice with the weapon choice (grenades are slow, evadable, and only effective at range against certain enemies) but don't completely leave the GLer helpless, which IIRC is something the UWE team wanted to avoid.
It'll be addressed, has already been submitted to Mantis.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I guess if it only launches grenades now, then the grenade will be on the primary fire button. What if alt-fire detonated a grenade at super close range, like 6 inches in front of the barrel? It would do some damage to the marine, but would be a last ditch weapon in case you were caught in close quarters. That way you still have the sacrifice with the weapon choice (grenades are slow, evadable, and only effective at range against certain enemies) but don't completely leave the GLer helpless, which IIRC is something the UWE team wanted to avoid.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This was tried already. It was incredibly overpowered.
As long as we don't get this:
<img src="http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/3382/mk47striker40automaticg.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
we tried exactly this as alt fire but it turned out to be simply too powerful
-Add a standalone and dedicated GL!
-Make the GL-attachment (GL-A) a weaker type of attack!
The "main" GL would be the hard-hitter/demolition, with long fuse-time, long range and large damage - just like in NS1!
The current GL-A would be a weaker type tactical-support with short fuse; and thereby short range, and with smaller damage.
Then there's a bunch of tweaks I personally would like to do to the GL-A, that might be some brainstorming for you...
-Maybe make it explode on contact (like GL-A was when first introduced into ns2).
This would definitely differentiate the two GL:s, the demolitions GL would have the classic ns1 explode-on-contact-with-enemy and be more used as a siege-weapon.
While the tactical GL-A would (with appriate dmg ofc) be much more practical versus lifeforms.
-As far as structure-dmg goes, have it only be effective against "small" structures, basically hydras+cysts (maybe a little less vs hydras).
-Versus players, it shouldn't 1-shot a skulk!
Maybe 2 shot skulk when no upg, w1 makes it 1-shot skulk, cara makes it 2-shot again, w2 makes it 1-shot again. This way there would be an arms-race between the two. Tradeoffs.
-Maybe have it be less effective vs onos (but in return he's MUCH easier to hit and target-magnet), and only slightly less effective vs fade, because both are "bigger" lifeforms. Skulk/gorge/lerk/ take full dmg.
...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe Alt-Fire could project the path the grenade would take.
Or the Alt-Fire would fire a dumb grenade projectile which doesn't explode, that fires very fast, but it is only good to stun a skulk, or stop an Onos from moving.
I would like to see the projectile sped up a little bit and be a little less floaty, but using it in game was satisfying and I found I could defend myself against skulks just fine by pulling out the pistol.
oh you mean like a direct ripoff of the sticky launcher in tf2?
Whips smacking grenades was only implemented to prevent the old grenade launcher attachment from being completely overpowered. With the GL now being standalone, there's actually no reason why the whips should still be able to throw the grenades back at all.
Sticky bombs vs skulks, who will win? :D