Relocations
Yuuki
Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Members
Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Members
<div class="IPBDescription">They look good.</div><img src="http://i.imgur.com/DdX2J.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
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<img src="http://i.imgur.com/SoLRB.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
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Comments
Are they finally going to let us do this? Or is this just some cheats/mod you used?
Please let us have freedom back. No one enjoys being restricted in videogames.
The techpoint limitation is a left over of the old marine tech model where you had to build multiple chairs to unlock higher tiers.
As an Age of Empires II player who frequently loses his town and rebuilds in a sneaky secret base somewhere, I do think it would be a lot of fun to do that in NS.
Honestly though, it would be insane for them to add this before 1.0 if they ever do. It would open up the floodgates for balance issues and map issues.
As an Age of Empires II player who frequently loses his town and rebuilds in a sneaky secret base somewhere, I do think it would be a lot of fun to do that in NS.
Honestly though, it would be insane for them to add this before 1.0 if they ever do. It would open up the floodgates for balance issues and map issues.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In every thread I have seen on this, including the ones I have started, the response has been limited to "Well it wasn't streamlined and didn't always work and blah blah blah" or "It's not changing because we said so"
No one has provided an actual reason for why we should be forced to build bases in predetermined locations.
The people who say "Oh it didn't always work in NS1" -- well great. So What? Does that mean we cannot be given the option? It did work A LOT in NS1 and was fun because we didn't have to do the same thing over and over.
It is boring and limits gameplay and maps and causes all sorts of problems with REPLAYABILITY.
Here's some advice: Let us relocate wherever we want.
Hives do not equal Command Stations. Like at all.
So no. I don't.
EDIT: I changed my mind, maybe it would be interesting.
Still, this may be something best left for an NS1:Spark mod.
If you really want to bring back relocates as a fun and useful tactic, the maps have to be edited so the marine start is not a hive position. This contradicts random spawn positions.
Also the early relocates in NS1 were a high risk tactic. If it goes wrong, the game was lost after a few minutes.
As much as I loved those games, I'm not sure if it fit NS2 with its smaller maps.
So no. I don't.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hives act as command chairs now, so they sort of are equal.
And suddenly there is a harvester under attack, a few seconds later another marines tries to sneak into a hive on the other side of the map.
A few seconds later there are marines spread all over the map.
And all aliens yelling over the voicecomm "OMG where are they coming from, where is their base?!)
This is a smaller command station, only half the hp, only droppable on resnodes. Maybe collects res at 1/4 the rate.
This could make relocations possible. It blocks a resnode, so you always need to expand fast to a near room for a real extractor. Brings more variation with relocating but not so much as in the "totally free placing of the Command station"-idea.
But anyway about power nodes: unpowered rooms should be dark and powered rooms should be lit. Not very locical that every room without power node has lights on at beginning, but when power node is placed and destroyed lights go off.
I changed my mind, maybe relocating hives anywhere on the map would be interesting.
But if you want marines and aliens to be that equal, you might as well just delete the aliens entirely and make this Counter-strike in space with marine vs. marine.
Sadly, there are probably a few people who think that is a good idea.
If you really want to bring back relocates as a fun and useful tactic, the maps have to be edited so the marine start is not a hive position. This contradicts random spawn positions.
Also the early relocates in NS1 were a high risk tactic. If it goes wrong, the game was lost after a few minutes.
As much as I loved those games, I'm not sure if it fit NS2 with its smaller maps.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This excuse of "it was high risk and didn't work" is annoying. I already pointed out how thats not a valid reason for limiting command station decisions. It is the only reason people are giving for why we cannot relocate where we want aside from "because we said so."
Hera relocation to processing? LES DO IT. Eclipse relocation to T-Junction? LES DO IT. Ayumi relocate to Cold corner (forgot the name)? LES DO IT. Nothing relocate to atmospheric? LES DO IT. I learned so much about strategy and gaming from NS1 relocation lol. How to talk to your team, aggression, stategy, deceit. There are many things I will miss from NS1 that they brought back (phase tech, lerk bite, dedicate GL's) and many things that I think need to be tweaked or reverted to old style (ninja PG's, ARCS/siege turrets, relocations). But relocations in my opinion are what need to come back regardless. The thing is, there is no reason the command chair needs to be tied to tech points. So why are they tied?
Sorry, I didn't meant to annoy you. I should have made this sentence clearer so there is no misunderstanding. So I will write it again to clarify my opinion. I start with the two main points which you sadly ignored:
Relocates happened in NS1 in 2 cases:
<ul><li>obtaining a hive position</li><li>extend an already lost game with a vent base</li></ul>
The first point is useless in NS2 because marine start is already a hive location.
The second point benefits to a situation that the majority of the players hate. Playing a game where the outcome is already set. Playing for several minutes against a superior enemy where you get slaughtered again and again only to wait for the game to finally end. This may be fun once but will in the long run decrease the long-term playability. NS2 has already plenty of situations in which you know that you have already lost, but the game goes on for 10 or 20 minutes. I don't think we need more mechanics which focus on this situations.
Now to the last point that I haven't made clear enough. The relocations in NS1 lead to many short 1 to 3 minute games, when the aliens managed to kill all relocating marines. Although I personally have no problem with such short games and actually like them, many players expressed that they feel such short games annoying back at the built where the early skulk-base-rush caused so many short rounds. So it is a valid point to consider if we want to promote such short games with making relocates an often used tactic again.
No, this is not true. This is a good example of what I was talking about in another thread:
<!--quoteo(post=1942445:date=Jun 9 2012, 08:56 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Jun 9 2012, 08:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1942445"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->These open forums are unfortunately a poor way of getting intelligent feedback because there is a lot of "noise". Most of the posters have a very poor understanding of the game they are trying to provide feedback for, many lack basic language skills and others can't be taken seriously (a certain "competitive" poster comes to mind) -- the list goes on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Relocations happened for a number of reasons in NS1, two of which you have identified. Other reasons include (but not exclusively) relocating to a more central location on the map to get easier map control, relocating to a choke-point to deny aliens map control, relocating to double res to get easier res control, and relocating to outside the alien starting hive to get a quick cheese win.
Relocates happened in NS1 in 2 cases:
<ul><li>obtaining a hive position</li><li>extend an already lost game with a vent base</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I stopped reading here because you're wrong!
These are not the only reasons relocations happened.
You are <u><b>WRONG</b></u>
And the quote by fanatic about the "noise" and people saying wrong things is absolutely correct and this is a great example of it.
Also, none of those reasons justifies this issue, which I am ephasizing in all-caps because you're missing it: FORCING US TO STAY IN PREDETERMINED LOCATIONS. If relocating doesn't work, then why do so many people want to do it? And why did so many people do it and continue to do it in NS1?
<u>If it doesn't work, people wouldn't do it. NO reason to FORCE us not to do something.</u>
These open forums are unfortunately a poor way of getting intelligent feedback because there is a lot of "noise". Most of the posters have a very poor understanding of the game they are trying to provide feedback for, many lack basic language skills and others can't be taken seriously (a certain "competitive" poster comes to mind) -- the list goes on.
Relocations happened for a number of reasons in NS1, two of which you have identified. Other reasons include (but not exclusively) relocating to a more central location on the map to get easier map control, relocating to a choke-point to deny aliens map control, relocating to double res to get easier res control, and relocating to outside the alien starting hive to get a quick cheese win.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This bears repeating.
I think it is pretty clear from this thread that 99% of replies support relocations being put back in NS2.