Bring back Second Hive/CC importance and Strategy and Variety Gameplay
GodofThunder
Join Date: 2011-12-13 Member: 137815Members
Join Date: 2011-12-13 Member: 137815Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Also put end game tech where it should be</div>Firstly I think UWE's idea of focusing on having more command center's and hive's is a great way to go, but I feel with virutally unlimited resources and the ability to get absolutely everything early regardless of how many you have, has destroyed the game. It takes away the fact you need to earn your tech and the early, mid, late game feel. The game was, in my opinion, fantastic when there was the second hive importance. It also meant you had to be more strategic with your team, as some people had to save their resources to go fade, other's had to go gorge or lerk to help get the second hive up.
Although yes it was a bit unbalanced and usually meant either a win or a loss for the aliens, it's now in a position to be brought back.
In the old version you couldn't get fades till the second hive was up, and Onos till the third, and the aliens were limited on their abilities till these were up. This at least gave the game early, mid, late game, and the lower life form aliens had to really work hard to make sure they got a second hive up. This meant more early game time which is really half the enjoyment of the game with lmg's vs skulks.
Currently it's just "here is everything", "go slog it out".
Now with the fact you can research all alien abilities and get all lifeforms from one hive, we could bring back second hive importance(to a degree).
My suggestion's are
<b>Second Hive Importance</b><u></u>
-Onos and all Onos abilities to only be available from second hive.
Reason being that, as many have said, having Onos as fast as the 6 minute mark just doesn't seem right. This is surpose to be the alien's end game, big tank machine, and they almost become trival and uninspiring when every alien can, or is forced to get them early on. And at least you could still get fade's to help secure the second hive, or if things are going badly. This means it wouldn't be unbalanced like before.
<b>Strategy, Variety and End Game Tech</b><u></u>
-Double Hive's and each Hive be unique with their own look
Have each hive be unique and have there own abilities, and also give extra special abilities for having 2 of the same sort. This would bring no end of strategy and fun as you could build aliens very differently and give a huge variety of gameplay. Also this would really bring end game tech for aliens, which let's be honest has never really existed. It would also mean Marine's would have to actually scout the alien Hive's to see what build they are going and counter accordingly, or push hard to stop them from getting there.
<b>Crag Hive</b><u></u>
-Crag Hive's have more armour and HP. Crag Hive's also cost more. Could look like a big armour spikey shell.
-Double Crag Hive gives all aliens automatic carapace lvl 1, and gives the option for lvl 2 carapace. This would be a real tank build for aliens. All aliens would have very high armour.
-Counter's would be Flame Thrower's to bypass armour. Shotgun's would need to be used early to fight the armoured alien's. Give an armour piercing round for LMG's as a late game research tech.
<b>Shade Hive</b><u></u>
-Shade Hive's have normal HP and armour same as current. Could keep same model as current Hive.
-Double Shade Hive gives all aliens automatic cloak which stay's on until they attack, or get scanned. This with silence would mean the aliens have a very stealthy army.
-Counter's would be to build observatories at multiple locations around the map to show up the aliens. Also the commander would have to be kept on his toes with constant scanning.
<b>Shift Hive</b><u></u>
-Shift Hive's would have less HP and armour. Shift Hive also costs less. Could look like some purple glowing tentacle thing(ideas?).
-Double Shift Hive gives all alien's celerity automatically. Also aliens spawn time is halved. This build would be designed for faster setup and overwhelming the marine's with number's. Add in hypermutation and it would be a fast build, that can deploy alien's very quickly.
-Counter would be leveling weapon's as fast as possible as though the aliens will be fast and constantly coming, they will be weak without carapace.
<b>Third Hive and Late Game Tech</b><u></u>
With this setup you could really bring late game tech to the aliens for the first time. With a free upgrade already given from the second hive, with a third hive, you would have the ability to get 4 upgrades. Imagine what you could do with 4 Hive's!!!!!!!!!!.
-Example
Double Crag Hive, with a Shift Hive means an Onos would have lvl 2 carapace, celerity, silence and regen. Now that's a brutal Onos. This would really bring in the late game for alien's and would mean they don't just spend 30 minutes trying to break into the last marine base, if they won the map control.
-Counter. Exo suit PLZ. Exo suit with jetpack combo with HMG.(what ever's in the pipeline)
<b>Double Command Center</b><u></u>
-Second Command Center give's you a free armoury to be deployed next to it. This would help with marine's expanding and holding outpost's.
<b>Nano Shield</b><u></u>
Keeping with the theme of the more command center's/Hive's you have the more rewards you get.
I think that each command center should be able to always have 1 nano shield up, but only one. This means it stops it from being spammed, but also means you can more importantly keep a Resource Tower alive for alot longer. It also means when you get a second Command Center you can always have 2 nano shield's up or 3 etc etc. That way actually making multiple command center's has a point, and if you want to do a major push into an alien base, having 3 CC's would greatly help.
<b>Summary</b><u></u>
-Extend early game time
-Bring in Importance of Second Hive/Command Center
-Reward Multiple Command Center's/Hive's
-Bring strategy and different gameplay to every game
-Bring in End Game tech when it should be
Just my thoughts.
Although yes it was a bit unbalanced and usually meant either a win or a loss for the aliens, it's now in a position to be brought back.
In the old version you couldn't get fades till the second hive was up, and Onos till the third, and the aliens were limited on their abilities till these were up. This at least gave the game early, mid, late game, and the lower life form aliens had to really work hard to make sure they got a second hive up. This meant more early game time which is really half the enjoyment of the game with lmg's vs skulks.
Currently it's just "here is everything", "go slog it out".
Now with the fact you can research all alien abilities and get all lifeforms from one hive, we could bring back second hive importance(to a degree).
My suggestion's are
<b>Second Hive Importance</b><u></u>
-Onos and all Onos abilities to only be available from second hive.
Reason being that, as many have said, having Onos as fast as the 6 minute mark just doesn't seem right. This is surpose to be the alien's end game, big tank machine, and they almost become trival and uninspiring when every alien can, or is forced to get them early on. And at least you could still get fade's to help secure the second hive, or if things are going badly. This means it wouldn't be unbalanced like before.
<b>Strategy, Variety and End Game Tech</b><u></u>
-Double Hive's and each Hive be unique with their own look
Have each hive be unique and have there own abilities, and also give extra special abilities for having 2 of the same sort. This would bring no end of strategy and fun as you could build aliens very differently and give a huge variety of gameplay. Also this would really bring end game tech for aliens, which let's be honest has never really existed. It would also mean Marine's would have to actually scout the alien Hive's to see what build they are going and counter accordingly, or push hard to stop them from getting there.
<b>Crag Hive</b><u></u>
-Crag Hive's have more armour and HP. Crag Hive's also cost more. Could look like a big armour spikey shell.
-Double Crag Hive gives all aliens automatic carapace lvl 1, and gives the option for lvl 2 carapace. This would be a real tank build for aliens. All aliens would have very high armour.
-Counter's would be Flame Thrower's to bypass armour. Shotgun's would need to be used early to fight the armoured alien's. Give an armour piercing round for LMG's as a late game research tech.
<b>Shade Hive</b><u></u>
-Shade Hive's have normal HP and armour same as current. Could keep same model as current Hive.
-Double Shade Hive gives all aliens automatic cloak which stay's on until they attack, or get scanned. This with silence would mean the aliens have a very stealthy army.
-Counter's would be to build observatories at multiple locations around the map to show up the aliens. Also the commander would have to be kept on his toes with constant scanning.
<b>Shift Hive</b><u></u>
-Shift Hive's would have less HP and armour. Shift Hive also costs less. Could look like some purple glowing tentacle thing(ideas?).
-Double Shift Hive gives all alien's celerity automatically. Also aliens spawn time is halved. This build would be designed for faster setup and overwhelming the marine's with number's. Add in hypermutation and it would be a fast build, that can deploy alien's very quickly.
-Counter would be leveling weapon's as fast as possible as though the aliens will be fast and constantly coming, they will be weak without carapace.
<b>Third Hive and Late Game Tech</b><u></u>
With this setup you could really bring late game tech to the aliens for the first time. With a free upgrade already given from the second hive, with a third hive, you would have the ability to get 4 upgrades. Imagine what you could do with 4 Hive's!!!!!!!!!!.
-Example
Double Crag Hive, with a Shift Hive means an Onos would have lvl 2 carapace, celerity, silence and regen. Now that's a brutal Onos. This would really bring in the late game for alien's and would mean they don't just spend 30 minutes trying to break into the last marine base, if they won the map control.
-Counter. Exo suit PLZ. Exo suit with jetpack combo with HMG.(what ever's in the pipeline)
<b>Double Command Center</b><u></u>
-Second Command Center give's you a free armoury to be deployed next to it. This would help with marine's expanding and holding outpost's.
<b>Nano Shield</b><u></u>
Keeping with the theme of the more command center's/Hive's you have the more rewards you get.
I think that each command center should be able to always have 1 nano shield up, but only one. This means it stops it from being spammed, but also means you can more importantly keep a Resource Tower alive for alot longer. It also means when you get a second Command Center you can always have 2 nano shield's up or 3 etc etc. That way actually making multiple command center's has a point, and if you want to do a major push into an alien base, having 3 CC's would greatly help.
<b>Summary</b><u></u>
-Extend early game time
-Bring in Importance of Second Hive/Command Center
-Reward Multiple Command Center's/Hive's
-Bring strategy and different gameplay to every game
-Bring in End Game tech when it should be
Just my thoughts.
Comments
So I think we'll probably end up by tying Tier 2 (eg, Leap) to 2 hives and Tier 3 (eg, Stomp) to 3 hives.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
^ answers some of your post.
This is what happens with every game, honestly...and every software product that has any sort of ambition or long term plan.
NS2 will get better after release, but they can't afford (literally, pun intended) to delay it and shouldn't.
For all the negative feedback they'll get, money still talks. It fuels further development, and anybody who dislikes the game at release can be made to like it later on with the right changes.
Like Flayra said, the time for experimentation has passed. At some point, you need to say "this worked well enough, and trying to reinvent it ruined everything, so we'll stick with the way it was"
NS2 will get better after release, but they can't afford (literally, pun intended) to delay it and shouldn't.
For all the negative feedback they'll get, money still talks. It fuels further development, and anybody who dislikes the game at release can be made to like it later on with the right changes.
Like Flayra said, the time for experimentation has passed. At some point, you need to say "this worked well enough, and trying to reinvent it ruined everything, so we'll stick with the way it was"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Probably this.^
I love the OP's idea in this post. I'd absolutely try it if someone made a mod. However, I'm ready to get back to familiar NS gameplay so we can get a core game up and running. More experimenting will be welcome in the future, but it's time to buckle down for a bit.
aaaand TF2 Pyro update just finished. No disrespect to NS2 but..... toodles!
Well if the aliens have 4 hives build the marines should already have lost anyway. It shouldn't be possible to counter aliens that have 4 hives, if the aliens dont fail totally from that point on.
Most NS1 maps were a lot better balanced in this regard.
But from hives/command chairs.
But from hives/command chairs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I second this motion.
But from hives/command chairs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting..so basically you have a set rate of P-res per chair sepearte to whether or not you hold harvesters.
I like and think it is possibly worth exploring this...could be a different way to make hives/comm chairs more important than harvesters.
I mean come on. All youre left with in that case is a tdm game mode.
Im at a loss for words.
Without tres from extractors, the team would get no upgrades or support from the comm, as well as no additional weapons or abilities. It would make holding the WHOLE map important, not just the closest nodes on a single base.
Res nodes would be required to get the guns, techpoints required to use them more often. i think that would work out well as the team with more techpoints would have more guns/lifeforms by default, but could still be crippled by killing res nodes.
It is actually quite hard to break a fully armed marine base where the whole marine team is cornered in. How long does the game drag on when aliens have taken the whole map but cant break the last base. This idea gives Aliens so many upgrades for takeing the WHOLE map that they can't be stopped. Who ever earns the control of the maps with the most CC's/Hives has the advantage. End game tech to END the game. And this would bring more diversity to aliens as teams could practice certain builds and strategies, instead of the same old get hives get all upgrades win/lose.
<!--quoteo(post=1950258:date=Jul 10 2012, 03:47 PM:name=AuroN2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AuroN2 @ Jul 10 2012, 03:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1950258"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i have an excelent idea, not getting pres from harvesters
But from hives/command chairs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1950382:date=Jul 11 2012, 07:00 AM:name=Benson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Benson @ Jul 11 2012, 07:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1950382"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->res nodes would still be very important as that is the only way to get upgrades and improve your team. Pres for techpoints would only give the players more options.
Without tres from extractors, the team would get no upgrades or support from the comm, as well as no additional weapons or abilities. It would make holding the WHOLE map important, not just the closest nodes on a single base.
Res nodes would be required to get the guns, techpoints required to use them more often. i think that would work out well as the team with more techpoints would have more guns/lifeforms by default, but could still be crippled by killing res nodes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Never even thought about this idea but it's brilliant to tie into the Hive/CC importance theme. Would be a cool idea
But honestly it just really bugs me that you can get Onos from one hive. End tech should be just that, End game technology used to win the game. It shouldn't be available in the early-mid game what so ever. More time and fun with the early life forms and a real need to use them well to secure map control with rewards for it.