I havent seen a single ARC in this game since the patch, any half decent alien team can get total map control in the first 5min. So marines will only be able to hold 1-2rts at best... (in pubs)
<!--quoteo(post=1948211:date=Jul 1 2012, 08:58 AM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Jul 1 2012, 08:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1948211"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->coincidentally, I don't see shifts made in pubs right now and I <i>certainly </i>don't see stuff being echoed to key locations to solve these problems<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's a lot of res to invest in a bombard whip farm and the shifts to move it anywhere, ultimately only for it all to be killed by an arc train without the whips ever getting to fire a shot.
If you have that much res to waste on useless stuff then you're probably already winning anyway.
<!--quoteo(post=1948227:date=Jul 1 2012, 02:25 PM:name=TimMc)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TimMc @ Jul 1 2012, 02:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1948227"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed with all of it, well written post.
<!--quoteo(post=1948237:date=Jul 1 2012, 02:33 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Jul 1 2012, 02:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1948237"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I havent seen a single ARC in this game since the patch, any half decent alien team can get total map control in the first 5min. So marines will only be able to hold 1-2rts at best... (in pubs)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is true. I have only seen ARCs appearing if I join mid-game, where the aliens have been doing poorly or had poor numbers.
However once they fix the leap by making it tied to second hive, aliens will be royally screwed.
Kommander spikes are pretty stupid. They seem like a bandaid more than a permanent solution. And also they just seem ridiculous in general, I mean giant spikes coming out of the ground? Really? Let's get practical. I'd like to see something that will either damage marines, slow down marines or get them stuck. Maybe like if they are on infestation and the commander triggers it, marines will get sludged to the floor or acid will spray upwards (so it will effect JPs). But I think spikes just dont fit in this game.
What I would love to see about the ARC problem is a limit of one or maybe 2 with an upgrade active at a time. If only one is allowed then they should maybe get an increase in survivability so it ain't too easy to kamikaze as an alien. This way it becomes more crucial to defend / escort the one to the hive during the attack. I have fond memories of guarding the cannons in NS1 repairing them with my welder equipped heavy armor + heavy machinegun guy.
Sending of an unguarded ninja arc train in a surprise route is just a stupid game feature imho =)
AurOn2COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS!AustraliaJoin Date: 2012-01-13Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
edited July 2012
Personally, i think that whips (and hydras if they bring the good bloody things back) shouldn't be weakened to the extent of useless ness (300 hp, guiz, srsly? srsly, guiz. It's weaker than a mac! 3 skulk bites = a dead turret? nowai.) should cost 20 res, that would prevent teh spammages of statics and return the usefulnessness of turrets, if you have to make them weaker, 500 hp, 500 armor, done and done. then i believe gorge bile does more damage (they do more damage to more armor rait?) And skulks take alot more chews up into the turrets to take them out! but 20 res! cho(m)p cho(m)p!
I also note nobody is noting the absolute uselessness of turrets atm.
Also previously noted, shades need some sort of purchasable upgrade so that when they are scanned, they dont let go of cloaked nearby structures, this requires more assitance from the comm to nearby marines! "probably a whip around the corner from this and that" etc!
I love the spikes. At least as alien com. They are very funny and give a feeling of direct interaction. Plus, you never forget the happy "thanks" of an onos, that you just presented it's fleeing prey on a silver platter. Also as marine the spikes give a cool "Oh I'm not going on infestation! Lets kill it for sure."-feeling. But maybe this will wear out in the future. If so, the spikes may need a longer cool down. But I'm not sure about this now.
The new icons for unlocked abilities are very good. <b>Would love to see them also in the evolve screen</b>, when clicking on another lifeform.
Regarding Leap. I'm not sure if tying it to the second hive will be the best decision but it will sure help to solve the "too early"-problem. A cost increase to 40tRes to research it may be also enough. Let's face it. It is an upgrade for <b>every</b> player! Spikes are cool and all, but how many lerks have you per game in comparison to skulks? The upgrades for the default-alien just need to be <b>way more</b> costly to balance its use against more special upgrades like blink or spikes. The cost/use values are just wrong and this is the problem. If you tie leap to 2nd hive, you may want to also tie spikes, blink and stomp to the second hive. Effectively bringing us back to the all-game-deciding 2nd hive. Tying leap to 2nd and xeno to 3rd hive may work if you keep the other upgrades researchable at one hive.
Carapace should be more costly too.
I'm not sure if it is the increase of carapace armor or the hitreg became worse. But I find it really difficult to hit/kill skulks. (Even if they are not leaping.) Despite 30tickrate and >30 fps, they seem to constantly lag / teleport over my screen. Sometimes they seem to fly all the time at a constant height while they actually bunnyhop.
Overall the aliens seem to be overpowered now. Very scarce that I see a marine-team win.
I don't really like the changes to the lerk spikes. I thought they were the counter to the shotgun, but now you need to get to close to hit reliable. But they are working better on buildings now. Not sure if this is a good thing. Building-crushing should be the job of gorge, skulk and onos (to give the first two more of a purpose).
ARC-trains aren't fixed at all (but marines are to weak right now to see them more often.) I will make a new topic regarding the ARC-train.
All in all the build has some very neat changes but the balance is really screwed. Oh and Xeno is badass. :D But it needs a louder "BOOOM". Or maybe a "SQUISH"?
A long, drawn out game where both sides achieve all tech - aliens have 3 hives while mareins have 2 bases. The slow pres means that aliens cannot use onos very often, and marines are struggling to use grenade launchers and jetpacks.
In this situation, the commanders are the ones who are forced to try and end the game. Alien commander can whip rush, but that is hard and ultimately nullfied by what marine commanders have - ARCS.
The marine commander keeps sending 3-4 ARCS, and nanoshielding them all. The aliens cannot kill them before the hive is half dead, and most the supporting structures are dead long before. Aliens try to repair the hive, and rebuild the stuctures, but the marine commander just repeats this several more times until the alien hive is dead. Marines don't even need to help the ARCS.
Aliens heal stuff slowly, marines heal stuff very quickly. If the aliens attack and fail, they have lost several onos and the damage will be repaired in under a minute. The marine attacks slowly grind down the alien base, despite being poorly executed. This is not the way it should be.
TLDR Summary: - Poor pres income has rendered aliens terrible endgame, since final assaults rely on pres while marines rely upon ARCS from tres. - This is not fun for either side. Marines get bored using LMG and shotguns, aliens get bored of replacing structures. - Marine assaults on alien bases takes a long time to repair. Alien assaults on marine bases take seconds to repair. This means poor marine assaults don't matter as long as they keep doing them. Alien assaults must be done with focus and teamwork.
We need less tres income, a bit more pres income, alien structure healing needs to be faster to almost marine levels and ARCs need a strong counter - either a shade ability that stops the commander scans, or drifter dampening field?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I finally managed to beat marine commander late game last night.
Solution? While aliens attack one base, I spammed cysts and whips in their base until the marines who spawned were lagging and overwelmed. Whips took down buildings and anyone who spawned.
Lame? Yes. But we had 3/4 of the map and only reason we could not win was because aliens cannot onos rush nearly as well with such low pres income, and the marine commander kept sending small ninja arc trains, grinding down our bases.
If we had more pres, the marines would have had the equipment to fight those whips, and the aliens would have had the higher lifeforms needed to destroy the bases. Instead it became commander vs commander.
I think, your team was just not a team. It is really simple to kill a base with coordinated gorge + 1 or 2 defenders and xenoing skulks. Aliens are much in favor this build. If you couldn't end it, your team would have lost in a balanced build, because of lack of teamplay.
<!--quoteo(post=1948365:date=Jul 2 2012, 09:07 AM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Jul 2 2012, 09:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1948365"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think, your team was just not a team. It is really simple to kill a base with coordinated gorge + 1 or 2 defenders and xenoing skulks. Aliens are much in favor this build. If you couldn't end it, your team would have lost in a balanced build, because of lack of teamplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have to disagree. Most of the time what happens when Marines have 2 bases, Aliens 3 is 4 onos rush in with a gorge or two and skulks, they manage to take down the power supply and/or com chair, but now they're all dead and the game isn't over because Marines still have a second base. So now aliens are down all their resources with nothing left or higher lifeforms, Marines are able to just walk over them.
As TimMC said, I start spamming cysts and then whips in their base because it's the only thing that works unless they have ARCs chilling in their base.
<!--quoteo(post=1948435:date=Jul 2 2012, 12:48 PM:name=SkiT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SkiT @ Jul 2 2012, 12:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1948435"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Attack the unprotected base with some vortex fade on obs and pg. Onos with gorge focus the comm chair. It's the solution for me..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So the aliens must play high-level to win in a pub match, while the marines just need to survive while their commander spams ARCS? Hardly seems fair.
I admit, if my team were good and highly coordinated they could have finished it. However they had dominated the marines for the past 30-40 minutes which is why we had 3 hives and 3/4 of the map. Our infestation and mini-bases were just outside their own. The marine were starved of pres. They game should not be such a struggle to end at this point.
Edit: And I'm pretty sure we had 2-3 onos go at once several times, with a gorge supporting. Fact is with L3 weapons, shotguns and how slow onos move with carapace - they just die. If they manage to kill the chair, the marines will just build it again with nanoconstruct.
ARCS clear the entire base, leaving marines to kill the aliens. Aliens have to manually kill the base, while killing the marines - buildings heavily support the marines, or the aliens will die from the marines if they kill the base first. Suicide onos rush only works against a single CC.
I've played a bit more since my last post in this thread. It's more balanced than I thought: I've learned that it is <i>possible</i> for pub marines to hold a few extractors during the early and mid games. I'm pretty sure Aliens ultimately have the advantage because any time they have a hive under threat they're able to counterattack one of the marine bases and force a becon.
Sentries have been nerfed to oblivion. There's very few places you can build them where they won't instantly be destroyed by an Onos. Sentries are becoming a priority target because the Onos knows he can take it down and cause some economic damage. I'm all for getting rid of sentry spam, but this is not the solution. At their best in builds past, sentries have been a deterrent and a way to buy time to complete a hive assault. They were an investment. In this build, they are candy for Onos.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=119250&view=findpost&p=1948419" target="_blank">I disagree</a> with some of the posts above about ARCs still being a problem. I think it's rage left over from the ARCs of 210.
<!--quoteo(post=1948453:date=Jul 2 2012, 01:57 PM:name=Khyron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Khyron @ Jul 2 2012, 01:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1948453"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=119250&view=findpost&p=1948419" target="_blank">I disagree</a> with some of the posts above about ARCs still being a problem. I think it's rage left over from the ARCs of 210.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My main point is that the pres slowdown has caused the game to shift from player focus to commander focus. Commanders now use ARCs to end the game, instead of teamworking to get a nice GL-jetpack rush (which is more fun for both sides). Poor pres also heavily nerfs aliens since they need onos, and alot of them since the carapace changes have slowed them to a crawl.
Played about 5 games tonight. Each one resulted in an Alien win (regardless of what side I played). At one point, we the marines had about 3/4 of the map with all upgrades and the aliens just rushed our base power node with 2 onos and it was done. The large issues were that we couldn't get turrets to work at all. Not sure what the issue was but they didn't work. Also had a gorge exploit into our base to BB the power node...
<!--quoteo(post=1948542:date=Jul 2 2012, 11:49 PM:name=Death_by_bullets)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Death_by_bullets @ Jul 2 2012, 11:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1948542"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Played about 5 games tonight. Each one resulted in an Alien win (regardless of what side I played). At one point, <b>we the marines had about 3/4 of the map with all upgrades and the aliens just rushed our base power node with 2 onos and it was done.</b> The large issues were that we couldn't get turrets to work at all. Not sure what the issue was but they didn't work. Also had a gorge exploit into our base to BB the power node...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You guys had 3/4s of the map, but only one com chair? I can then see why Aliens won 5 of those games.
<!--quoteo(post=1948542:date=Jul 2 2012, 10:49 PM:name=Death_by_bullets)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Death_by_bullets @ Jul 2 2012, 10:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1948542"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Played about 5 games tonight. Each one resulted in an Alien win (regardless of what side I played). At one point, we the marines had about 3/4 of the map with all upgrades and the aliens just rushed our base power node with 2 onos and it was done. The large issues were that we couldn't get turrets to work at all. Not sure what the issue was but they didn't work. Also had a gorge exploit into our base to BB the power node...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You lost because you only built one CC. When marines have many, they always win.
- performance is wierd, got 40 fps a second later it drops to 7 for 1 min and then back to 40 when i respawn...
- as commander i had about 20 crashes that the game dumped me out not doing something specific all the time (maybe arrow keys dunno)
- major issue when the game is not full aliens advance way way faster and always get map control while marines struggel to defend 2-3 rts
- when i press esc in game for the menu fps drops MASSIVE
- fps drops during game appear with ALL settings AA BLOOM Atmospherics shadows detail high low nevermind how i set the config it happens and most often in fights.
system: amd phenom x4 2800 4 gb ram corsair win 7 64 newest flash c++ java direct x graphic drivers and what ever geforce x260gt evga
<!--quoteo(post=1948681:date=Jul 3 2012, 01:24 PM:name=Nasdero)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nasdero @ Jul 3 2012, 01:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1948681"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->OK... after about 30-40 games with 212
- pres is really making the game boring
- performance is wierd, got 40 fps a second later it drops to 7 for 1 min and then back to 40 when i respawn...
- as commander i had about 20 crashes that the game dumped me out not doing something specific all the time (maybe arrow keys dunno)
- major issue when the game is not full aliens advance way way faster and always get map control while marines struggel to defend 2-3 rts
- when i press esc in game for the menu fps drops MASSIVE
- fps drops during game appear with ALL settings AA BLOOM Atmospherics shadows detail high low nevermind how i set the config it happens and most often in fights.
system: amd phenom x4 2800 4 gb ram corsair win 7 64 newest flash c++ java direct x graphic drivers and what ever geforce x260gt evga<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've had alot of servers crash entirely, none just client side though.
<!--quoteo(post=1949558:date=Jul 6 2012, 10:48 PM:name=SkiT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SkiT @ Jul 6 2012, 10:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1949558"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i see spam cysts on every game i make this week, please do something with that it's just boring to play against that..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is not really a damn thing you can do about cyst spamming besides removing cysts all together. It's the same reason why nanoshield and medpacks are easily spammed during late game because of an abundance of t.res. If you do too much to try to fix cysts being spammed late game, you end up butchering Aliens early game.
Parroting the same Marines who only want easy mode in this game "Just don't let them hold resource towers, K"
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
edited July 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1947750:date=Jun 30 2012, 03:41 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Jun 30 2012, 03:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947750"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah this isn't good. We're playtesting tying this to two hives right now (I think it will work better).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what about having leap distance get further per hive?
and/or use a lot of energy, so that aliens will need more shifts to make leap viable as a first hive upgrade (i'm assuming shifts decrease adrenaline usage? i could be wrong).
edit: you don't want to limit the amount of options at start game. each option should be viable - with enough early game investment.
<!--quoteo(post=1949565:date=Jul 6 2012, 11:55 PM:name=MisterNubs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MisterNubs @ Jul 6 2012, 11:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1949565"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There is not really a damn thing you can do about cyst spamming besides removing cysts all together. It's the same reason why nanoshield and medpacks are easily spammed during late game because of an abundance of t.res. If you do too much to try to fix cysts being spammed late game, you end up butchering Aliens early game.
Parroting the same Marines who only want easy mode in this game "Just don't let them hold resource towers, K"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not at all.
You can add a 5s cooldown to cysts and that would help a whole lot with the cyst spam. It wouldn't slow alien expansion rate at all unless they started losing cysts, at which point they should be delayed.
<!--quoteo(post=1949580:date=Jul 7 2012, 01:47 AM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Jul 7 2012, 01:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1949580"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not at all.
You can add a 5s cooldown to cysts and that would help a whole lot with the cyst spam. It wouldn't slow alien expansion rate at all unless they started losing cysts, at which point they should be delayed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which is an awful idea that would make trying to grab both resource nodes on either side of the hive tedious. Not exactly sure how it wouldn't slow down alien expansion considering it would take an additional 20 seconds or more to grab those same resource nodes.
What about removing cysts and replace them with an infest chamber? I imagine it could be something really creepy looking that has to be placed on the wall and it would just spew out infestation from all sides.
The idea for this is for them to replace cysts, but not be spammable. Maybe increase their Tres cost, but increase their durability as well. They would definitely need to infest a larger area than a cyst since there will not be a lot of them. Give cysts as Pres structure for gorges to place to cover the areas that the infest chambers don't.
You can maybe even limit the amount of infest chambers to the amount of power nodes on the map.
Comments
That's a lot of res to invest in a bombard whip farm and the shifts to move it anywhere, ultimately only for it all to be killed by an arc train without the whips ever getting to fire a shot.
If you have that much res to waste on useless stuff then you're probably already winning anyway.
Agreed with all of it, well written post.
This is true. I have only seen ARCs appearing if I join mid-game, where the aliens have been doing poorly or had poor numbers.
However once they fix the leap by making it tied to second hive, aliens will be royally screwed.
Sending of an unguarded ninja arc train in a surprise route is just a stupid game feature imho =)
I also note nobody is noting the absolute uselessness of turrets atm.
Also previously noted, shades need some sort of purchasable upgrade so that when they are scanned, they dont let go of cloaked nearby structures, this requires more assitance from the comm to nearby marines! "probably a whip around the corner from this and that" etc!
Also as marine the spikes give a cool "Oh I'm not going on infestation! Lets kill it for sure."-feeling. But maybe this will wear out in the future. If so, the spikes may need a longer cool down. But I'm not sure about this now.
The new icons for unlocked abilities are very good. <b>Would love to see them also in the evolve screen</b>, when clicking on another lifeform.
Regarding Leap. I'm not sure if tying it to the second hive will be the best decision but it will sure help to solve the "too early"-problem. A cost increase to 40tRes to research it may be also enough. Let's face it. It is an upgrade for <b>every</b> player! Spikes are cool and all, but how many lerks have you per game in comparison to skulks? The upgrades for the default-alien just need to be <b>way more</b> costly to balance its use against more special upgrades like blink or spikes. The cost/use values are just wrong and this is the problem.
If you tie leap to 2nd hive, you may want to also tie spikes, blink and stomp to the second hive. Effectively bringing us back to the all-game-deciding 2nd hive. Tying leap to 2nd and xeno to 3rd hive may work if you keep the other upgrades researchable at one hive.
Carapace should be more costly too.
I'm not sure if it is the increase of carapace armor or the hitreg became worse. But I find it really difficult to hit/kill skulks. (Even if they are not leaping.) Despite 30tickrate and >30 fps, they seem to constantly lag / teleport over my screen. Sometimes they seem to fly all the time at a constant height while they actually bunnyhop.
Overall the aliens seem to be overpowered now. Very scarce that I see a marine-team win.
I don't really like the changes to the lerk spikes. I thought they were the counter to the shotgun, but now you need to get to close to hit reliable. But they are working better on buildings now. Not sure if this is a good thing. Building-crushing should be the job of gorge, skulk and onos (to give the first two more of a purpose).
ARC-trains aren't fixed at all (but marines are to weak right now to see them more often.) I will make a new topic regarding the ARC-train.
All in all the build has some very neat changes but the balance is really screwed. Oh and Xeno is badass. :D But it needs a louder "BOOOM". Or maybe a "SQUISH"?
ARCs are too idiot proof still.
A long, drawn out game where both sides achieve all tech - aliens have 3 hives while mareins have 2 bases. The slow pres means that aliens cannot use onos very often, and marines are struggling to use grenade launchers and jetpacks.
In this situation, the commanders are the ones who are forced to try and end the game. Alien commander can whip rush, but that is hard and ultimately nullfied by what marine commanders have - ARCS.
The marine commander keeps sending 3-4 ARCS, and nanoshielding them all. The aliens cannot kill them before the hive is half dead, and most the supporting structures are dead long before. Aliens try to repair the hive, and rebuild the stuctures, but the marine commander just repeats this several more times until the alien hive is dead. Marines don't even need to help the ARCS.
Aliens heal stuff slowly, marines heal stuff very quickly. If the aliens attack and fail, they have lost several onos and the damage will be repaired in under a minute. The marine attacks slowly grind down the alien base, despite being poorly executed. This is not the way it should be.
TLDR Summary:
- Poor pres income has rendered aliens terrible endgame, since final assaults rely on pres while marines rely upon ARCS from tres.
- This is not fun for either side. Marines get bored using LMG and shotguns, aliens get bored of replacing structures.
- Marine assaults on alien bases takes a long time to repair. Alien assaults on marine bases take seconds to repair. This means poor marine assaults don't matter as long as they keep doing them. Alien assaults must be done with focus and teamwork.
We need less tres income, a bit more pres income, alien structure healing needs to be faster to almost marine levels and ARCs need a strong counter - either a shade ability that stops the commander scans, or drifter dampening field?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I finally managed to beat marine commander late game last night.
Solution? While aliens attack one base, I spammed cysts and whips in their base until the marines who spawned were lagging and overwelmed. Whips took down buildings and anyone who spawned.
Lame? Yes. But we had 3/4 of the map and only reason we could not win was because aliens cannot onos rush nearly as well with such low pres income, and the marine commander kept sending small ninja arc trains, grinding down our bases.
If we had more pres, the marines would have had the equipment to fight those whips, and the aliens would have had the higher lifeforms needed to destroy the bases. Instead it became commander vs commander.
Aliens are much in favor this build. If you couldn't end it, your team would have lost in a balanced build, because of lack of teamplay.
Aliens are much in favor this build. If you couldn't end it, your team would have lost in a balanced build, because of lack of teamplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have to disagree. Most of the time what happens when Marines have 2 bases, Aliens 3 is 4 onos rush in with a gorge or two and skulks, they manage to take down the power supply and/or com chair, but now they're all dead and the game isn't over because Marines still have a second base. So now aliens are down all their resources with nothing left or higher lifeforms, Marines are able to just walk over them.
As TimMC said, I start spamming cysts and then whips in their base because it's the only thing that works unless they have ARCs chilling in their base.
So the aliens must play high-level to win in a pub match, while the marines just need to survive while their commander spams ARCS? Hardly seems fair.
I admit, if my team were good and highly coordinated they could have finished it. However they had dominated the marines for the past 30-40 minutes which is why we had 3 hives and 3/4 of the map. Our infestation and mini-bases were just outside their own. The marine were starved of pres. They game should not be such a struggle to end at this point.
Edit: And I'm pretty sure we had 2-3 onos go at once several times, with a gorge supporting. Fact is with L3 weapons, shotguns and how slow onos move with carapace - they just die. If they manage to kill the chair, the marines will just build it again with nanoconstruct.
ARCS clear the entire base, leaving marines to kill the aliens. Aliens have to manually kill the base, while killing the marines - buildings heavily support the marines, or the aliens will die from the marines if they kill the base first. Suicide onos rush only works against a single CC.
Sentries have been nerfed to oblivion. There's very few places you can build them where they won't instantly be destroyed by an Onos. Sentries are becoming a priority target because the Onos knows he can take it down and cause some economic damage. I'm all for getting rid of sentry spam, but this is not the solution. At their best in builds past, sentries have been a deterrent and a way to buy time to complete a hive assault. They were an investment. In this build, they are candy for Onos.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=119250&view=findpost&p=1948419" target="_blank">I disagree</a> with some of the posts above about ARCs still being a problem. I think it's rage left over from the ARCs of 210.
My main point is that the pres slowdown has caused the game to shift from player focus to commander focus. Commanders now use ARCs to end the game, instead of teamworking to get a nice GL-jetpack rush (which is more fun for both sides). Poor pres also heavily nerfs aliens since they need onos, and alot of them since the carapace changes have slowed them to a crawl.
I think the commander shouldn't be able to put them up anywhere a player is standing
You guys had 3/4s of the map, but only one com chair? I can then see why Aliens won 5 of those games.
You lost because you only built one CC. When marines have many, they always win.
- pres is really making the game boring
- performance is wierd, got 40 fps a second later it drops to 7 for 1 min and then back to 40 when i respawn...
- as commander i had about 20 crashes that the game dumped me out not doing something specific all the time (maybe arrow keys dunno)
- major issue when the game is not full aliens advance way way faster and always get map control while marines struggel to defend 2-3 rts
- when i press esc in game for the menu fps drops MASSIVE
- fps drops during game appear with ALL settings AA BLOOM Atmospherics shadows detail high low nevermind how i set the config it happens and most often in fights.
system:
amd phenom x4 2800
4 gb ram corsair
win 7 64
newest flash c++ java direct x graphic drivers and what ever
geforce x260gt evga
- pres is really making the game boring
- performance is wierd, got 40 fps a second later it drops to 7 for 1 min and then back to 40 when i respawn...
- as commander i had about 20 crashes that the game dumped me out not doing something specific all the time (maybe arrow keys dunno)
- major issue when the game is not full aliens advance way way faster and always get map control while marines struggel to defend 2-3 rts
- when i press esc in game for the menu fps drops MASSIVE
- fps drops during game appear with ALL settings AA BLOOM Atmospherics shadows detail high low nevermind how i set the config it happens and most often in fights.
system:
amd phenom x4 2800
4 gb ram corsair
win 7 64
newest flash c++ java direct x graphic drivers and what ever
geforce x260gt evga<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've had alot of servers crash entirely, none just client side though.
Slow pres is really boring though.
There is not really a damn thing you can do about cyst spamming besides removing cysts all together. It's the same reason why nanoshield and medpacks are easily spammed during late game because of an abundance of t.res. If you do too much to try to fix cysts being spammed late game, you end up butchering Aliens early game.
Parroting the same Marines who only want easy mode in this game "Just don't let them hold resource towers, K"
what about having leap distance get further per hive?
and/or use a lot of energy, so that aliens will need more shifts to make leap viable as a first hive upgrade (i'm assuming shifts decrease adrenaline usage? i could be wrong).
edit: you don't want to limit the amount of options at start game. each option should be viable - with enough early game investment.
Parroting the same Marines who only want easy mode in this game "Just don't let them hold resource towers, K"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not at all.
You can add a 5s cooldown to cysts and that would help a whole lot with the cyst spam. It wouldn't slow alien expansion rate at all unless they started losing cysts, at which point they should be delayed.
You can add a 5s cooldown to cysts and that would help a whole lot with the cyst spam. It wouldn't slow alien expansion rate at all unless they started losing cysts, at which point they should be delayed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which is an awful idea that would make trying to grab both resource nodes on either side of the hive tedious. Not exactly sure how it wouldn't slow down alien expansion considering it would take an additional 20 seconds or more to grab those same resource nodes.
The idea for this is for them to replace cysts, but not be spammable. Maybe increase their Tres cost, but increase their durability as well. They would definitely need to infest a larger area than a cyst since there will not be a lot of them.
Give cysts as Pres structure for gorges to place to cover the areas that the infest chambers don't.
You can maybe even limit the amount of infest chambers to the amount of power nodes on the map.