Finisher
dePARA
Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
Aliens needs an finishing ability.
In 212 the turrets are broken, they explode from time to time, need an powerpack sometimes and they decrease serverperformance cause lua spam. Thats why i disabled them on all of our server temporary.
The interisting fact is, that aliens still have problems to end the game.
Btw, i dont like the fact that aliens need great coordination to finish those games. Ok, it works in clanmatches or gathers maybe, but nearly never in pub games.
You can say "hey, must be an stupid alienteam, you can vortex this or bilebomb that". Sure, but i see so many stalemates on the turretless servers like before with turrets.
So we have the same old stalemates right now like ages ago. But this time without turrets.
These stalemates are boring, marines go in with an arctrain and soon with exo and have no problems to finish an game.
Aliens need ages to finish an game.
The alien-com need an super powerfull ability he get with 4 hives for example. Something like nuke. It must cost tons of res and must have an super huge cooldown.
This ability should be like an initiator for an final rush.
Does someone remember the scene in lord of the rings where 1 orc ran in with an torch to the great wall to fire the bomb?
So give an emp-bug to the alien com. If he can reach the base, he can disable things in an defined radius for 30 sec.
Or an acidrain cloud to the com he can cast in an area with the same effect.
It must be something that isnt growing on infestation cause if so, we still had the stalemates if some arcs are in marinebase.
In 212 the turrets are broken, they explode from time to time, need an powerpack sometimes and they decrease serverperformance cause lua spam. Thats why i disabled them on all of our server temporary.
The interisting fact is, that aliens still have problems to end the game.
Btw, i dont like the fact that aliens need great coordination to finish those games. Ok, it works in clanmatches or gathers maybe, but nearly never in pub games.
You can say "hey, must be an stupid alienteam, you can vortex this or bilebomb that". Sure, but i see so many stalemates on the turretless servers like before with turrets.
So we have the same old stalemates right now like ages ago. But this time without turrets.
These stalemates are boring, marines go in with an arctrain and soon with exo and have no problems to finish an game.
Aliens need ages to finish an game.
The alien-com need an super powerfull ability he get with 4 hives for example. Something like nuke. It must cost tons of res and must have an super huge cooldown.
This ability should be like an initiator for an final rush.
Does someone remember the scene in lord of the rings where 1 orc ran in with an torch to the great wall to fire the bomb?
So give an emp-bug to the alien com. If he can reach the base, he can disable things in an defined radius for 30 sec.
Or an acidrain cloud to the com he can cast in an area with the same effect.
It must be something that isnt growing on infestation cause if so, we still had the stalemates if some arcs are in marinebase.
Comments
Though on the other hand, I'm not sure if this one is vulnerable to such an effect; if the aliens have 4 hives, then they've pretty much won already.
IMO it is because of the Onos, he can't even deal with 1 JP marine and 3 Rines with W3 will hunt that slow fattie down in 1s.
And Xeno is absoluetly UNUSED in pub, i have never seen it in action in this build, even if it is researched.
200 light dmg? Really? You would need 3 Xenos for a A3 marine in the face. It needs to be increased.
Focus is also something that should be considered to come back, it was important to deal massive DMG to a single target. Maybe get a Upgrade that tunrs your primary to heavy DMG but it has a lower RoF and costs 20% more energy. Wouldn't be OP since it is the same as focus (focus did DBL DMG and Normal DMG to heavy DMG does also dbl the DMG), because all primary attacks do normal DMG now.
FOCUS IS VERY IMPORTANT IN NS FOR LATE GAME THE MOST IMPORTANT AND IT MAKE SKULK DONT BE USELESS EVEN IF ITS THE LATE GAME.
That's kind of the thing though, marines can end the game if they have oodles of resources by spamming siegemobiles, no teamwork required.
Even if we went back to the NS1 unmoving siege cannons model, they'd still be able to finish the aliens off with relative ease since they don't have to go through the static defences; defending the cannons against aliens is very straightforward compared to giving cover to the bilebomb gorge as an onos, or putting up enough umbra for your mates while also surviving yourself as a lerk.
Not sure how to solve it without allowing aliens some direct equivalent, shooting through walls makes a huge difference.
The stalemates occur because everyone is still doing their own thing and there's no person rallying the team for the final push.
Last night we went with 3x gorges rushing to their Command Station with Bile Bomb while the Marines were pushing our Hive and downed their CC so fast it was GG almost instantly. You can't tell me Aliens don't have finishers ^^ It's just the playerbase atm doesn't know about them but that will change as players learn etc. in time.
Believe me, we had plenty of good players in the alienteam.
We talk and try to coordinate. Fades vortex the arms lab, onos go in with gorges lerk spraying umbra, Alien com spam phantasm.
It was impossible t0 end the game. And the marines had no turret in dc.
After 30 min, we do it with a massive gorge rush.
A "normal" pub team never could win this stalemate.
This game was one of the worst i ever played and it shows me the real problems of the current ns2.
As i said, that aliens need much more teamplay to finish the game is an huge design issue right now. Aliens normally designed to be more independent. This work till endgame.
Marines need teamplay till endgame, then they have an easy time and dont need it anymore.
Disregarding the competitive/gather arena, in the public game world, it quite often can become the marines turtled on 1-2 res nodes until full Jetpack/W3/A3/Arctrain at which point the alien team has zero chance of winning regardless of strategy or execution.
The alien team distinctly has no coup-de-grace maneuver even on a game where 99% of the map is cysted and controlled, if the Marines are fairly competent.
The current iteration of NS2 is 'Can you keep the marines below 3 nodes for the entire game, mass onos and rush the comm chair and/or powernod before they can get jetpacks and/or w3a3+arcs'. (In the world of pubs).
I have commed several games on the Marine Side where we literally held no more than 2 nodes all game and end up winning at 90+ minutes due to the inability of the alien team to ever collapse the marine turtle. Onos die with 3-4 LMG W0 clips. A couple full W3 Shotgun clips.
I'm not sure on the best resolution for the problem, as introducing new abilities/'Nukes' would introduce a plethora of new problems... but something is definitely off in regards to the 1-2RT megaturtle and win capability of the current build/s.
I believe Aliens can still win right now, but it's only if the Marines were largely incompetent anyways. I've seen 90 minute games where the Marines are really competent shooters and can hold off mostly any type of rush. Even multi-onos.
It's still a matter of strategy though, if Aliens just go straight for the Command Station with Bile Bomb and Onos atm it will go down in seconds. Yes, it's imbalanced imo that Marines can pull out loads of tech from 1 Command Station (very little map control) but that will have to be something Charlie has to make up his mind on.
<!--quoteo(post=1950196:date=Jul 9 2012, 02:51 PM:name=ColtColt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ColtColt @ Jul 9 2012, 02:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1950196"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->= Onos die with 3-4 LMG W0 clips.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It takes 5 Weapons3 LMG clips to kill an Onos. Not 3-4 W0 lol.
From what I can recall nowadays, it does. Could be wrong though.
We talk and try to coordinate.<!--coloro:#FF00FF--><span style="color:#FF00FF"><!--/coloro--> Fades vortex the arms lab, onos go in with gorges lerk spraying umbra, Alien com spam phantasm.
<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Found the issue.... why not vortex the ips with fade and get a onos to kill arms lab? Maybe lerks and a fade also kill, 1 gorge bile bomb? I find games pretty easy to finish still. Id say its all due to players.
Now i know why i see so many stalemates, thx for the info.
Maybe its time for me to play another game. Seems that i never going to learn it.
This must be the only game ever where 2 grenadelauncher and a flamer kill every try of a cystspam in seconds, the only game where multiple arcs kill every nearby structure, the only game where lvl3 marines with jetpacks kill everything went into dc.
And i repeat it again, its an design issue that aliens need great teamwork to finish those games and the solution should be another attack order? Try that on an pure public team without mic.
We fight hard to push the marines back to base. The end should be an reward not an frustrating endless stalemate.
Endgames for marines are much more fun.
I think it may be a miscommunication that someone was implying it is "Impossible" for a coordinated, properly dispersed alien assault to overrun any level of marine organization. That's another debate. I think the debate here was focused around your typical pub, where you see that 1-RT turtle win semi-consistently.
Granted theres no EASY way to dig out a marine base, but they cant really come back. marines cant hold more than 1 rt at this point, so flamers and gls are RARE if out at all at this point.
Aliens have everything they need to end the game (whips and echo). Marines are just too good at holding their base against players but not good enough to break out. (btw exo wouldn't help this situation either due to lack of res)
I really want to know how the aliens should end an game soon aginst an exo with dual railguns standing in an turretfarm and jetpackmarines with flamers and arcs in base.
I really want to know how the aliens should end an game soon aginst an exo with dual railguns standing in an turretfarm and jetpackmarines with flamers and arcs in base.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Overkill!!!!!!!! ^^
but +1 on this
i want to pick up dead bodys as a skulk... onos dies -> i take it ^^
if the team does have guns and exos at the start of a stalemate, its only a matter of time before they cant afford them anymore. guns will get lost, when an exo dies they cant afford another. it all ends up the same, just longer.
Recycling guns is a great feature, and if used PERFECTLY can keep the marines alive indefenitly, but when does gun recycling ever go perfectly?
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=119180" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=119180</a>
I do agree that Marines should not be able to tech up and hold out on 1-2 RTs to make these epicly long stalemates.
Like any RTS game, expand to other resource or lose.
If they do indeed leave the Marines able to research their entire tech tree from one tech point without issue.. then we may have a problem.
Honestly the idea of adding a "nuke" or something equally ridiculous should be added only if aliens are still struggling 6 months after 1.0 release. I think most alien losses to turtled rines are to inexperience and lack of teamwork. Just seems like such a kneejerk reaction to suggest/put something like that in a game that is so young (the umbilical hasn't even been cut yet!).
I also think marines have it so much easier in stalemate situations because of Arcs, and I hope the devs do something about them because they are awful on pub games.
I thought its been said "Adrenaline will never be in NS2"? I'd like to see it myself, just thinking I heard Charlie say this.
It was actually added in b212 (start game and go build a shift hive to see for yourself) but it doesn't work for some reason. I assume it will be fixed next patch ?
I cant really see how that would effect the balancing in any way or how that could change the outcome of the round.
There is no reason to argue about an ability that ends a long ago lost round ?
Unless ... u want to punish the aliens for not choosing the right strategy to hit turtled marines by steeling everybodys time ... gg.
Unless ... u want to give the marines enough time to build their arc-train and turn the round.