On hitreg
Scrajm
Join Date: 2011-10-17 Member: 127859Members
Join Date: 2011-10-17 Member: 127859Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Temp fix: From server to client</div>I rarely play as marine. Usually I hide in the CC. But lately from my teammates and from ppl I play with on gathers, aswell as from forum posts by GORGEeous, I have heard more and more about hitreg. I cannot say if hitreg has changed very much last builds, but my gut feeling says it's not improving, and it might even have been worsened lately. Blinking as fade de facto still makes you invulnurable, and if you move fast enough as skulk, you cannot be killed. Lets not even mention the lerk..
Im sure UWE is aware of it, but this has been a problem for a VERY long time now, so it doesnt seem like they are prioritizing it. Im not gonna argue of what they should prio and what they should not, this they know the best themselves. However, as I´ve understood it, hit reg seems something really difficult to fix. The fact that we still have big time hitreg issues in this game, and that I have played other games that have hit reg problems aswell, should be a testament to that.
What I would like to see is that they move hit reg from server to client as an easy fix, temp ofc, until they have it working 100%. We are 2 months away from release, and by doing this, they should be able to free up time to go work on other things. Perhaps they can then move hitreg back from client to server post 1.0 then, when there are more time to really get it working. Nothing takes out the joy from a game as much as bad hit reg.
Now LUA+client hit reg sounds like a cheaters heaven, but honestly, cheating in this game is already so easy so NS2 might already be called cheaters heaven. And besides, cannot this easily be countered with some basic client code confirmation on server join?
Im sure UWE is aware of it, but this has been a problem for a VERY long time now, so it doesnt seem like they are prioritizing it. Im not gonna argue of what they should prio and what they should not, this they know the best themselves. However, as I´ve understood it, hit reg seems something really difficult to fix. The fact that we still have big time hitreg issues in this game, and that I have played other games that have hit reg problems aswell, should be a testament to that.
What I would like to see is that they move hit reg from server to client as an easy fix, temp ofc, until they have it working 100%. We are 2 months away from release, and by doing this, they should be able to free up time to go work on other things. Perhaps they can then move hitreg back from client to server post 1.0 then, when there are more time to really get it working. Nothing takes out the joy from a game as much as bad hit reg.
Now LUA+client hit reg sounds like a cheaters heaven, but honestly, cheating in this game is already so easy so NS2 might already be called cheaters heaven. And besides, cannot this easily be countered with some basic client code confirmation on server join?
Comments
As for cheaters heaven, 1.0 will include various anti-cheat mechanisms, which have not been implemented yet.
It's definitely very important to get hitreg fixed ASAP though, I completely agree.
Hit-reg has reported to have worsen this last build, and I'm wondering if there is a connection with the realised performance-increase (and by that I mean something broke in the process, not that it is more noticable, though that will surely also be the case).
Currently there are no known bugs in hitreg (don't hold that against me, i don't know everything), only the general opinion that "something is wrong". That is of course hard to debug and fix.
So instead of bandaid solutions, videos etc would be much more interesting.
I don't really believe in technical measures to prevent cheats, so if client side hit-reg would be an improvement, why not?
It´s almost as you are trolling us.
And yes, this is a band aid. But considering that it's less than 2 months left to release, and a bunch of other problems that needs to be addressed, perhaps its the only viable solution.
Currently there are no known bugs in hitreg (don't hold that against me, i don't know everything), only the general opinion that "something is wrong". That is of course hard to debug and fix.
So instead of bandaid solutions, videos etc would be much more interesting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here's some blatant issues after half an hour of testing:
1) The skulk animation when going from floor -> wall eats all the bullets. You can see that in my post linked above by Yuuki.
2) Moving at high speeds (>10) leads to very frequent blue lines in the hitreg visuals.
3) With erratic movement, specially at a distance, the blue lines again make frequent appearences.
The hit reg seemed to be alright at short distances and relatively low speeds (like skulks running). Pretty much anything fast or erratic will disappear a significant percentage of hits. I don't think hit reg has gotten any worse in b214, but it certainly hasn't gotten any better. I think people are seeing hitreg issues more because lerk speed was increased (faster = more hitreg problems) and fade's hp was increased (more hp = longer TTK, thus even more perception of hitreg problems).
I have experienced this too. But with a ping of < 80. But it was late game and the aliens were rushing our base. Frames and tick rate dropped heavy at this time. I think it was choke. But it was very unsatisfying to unload the whole sg-clip into that onos at short range and get not a single hit-indicator.
i got the feeling that ppl are playing less gather or even pcws since version 20x.
And even if GORGEous is right and hitreg didnt got any worse in this build, the issue when playing with a higher ping got worse.
Could we get respond about what is gonna happen in the direction of hitreg?
All we can say right now is that the issues are known and being worked on. Unfortunately it's very difficult to give you an ETA. Only relieve I can give you: It's top-priority.
I wasn't trolling you. All that i was saying is that with all the stuff going on, there was no specific bugreport about some reproducible issue. Between then and now, more tests where done. Still, any videos or screenshots or descriptions that could help to reproduce and diagnose the problems would be helpful.
However, I´m happy that more tests has been conducted, and that UWE is addressing this issue which has been a plague ever since I started to play the game. I do think its very reproducible though. GORGeous seems to have a good idea when it breaks, I also believe eh and rant does. Alot of other good rines most likely already have a good idea of when it fails as well.
I am not a programmer, and I don't know anything about anything actually. However, I have an idea. If UWE believes they have the time to fix this issue instead of my suggested band aid, and if they would like some more data on when it fails I do think we might be of help.
Showing screen shots and things like that might give a hint, but trying to reproduce difficult issues like hit reg fails can only get you so far with this method. Perhaps if UWE could write a simple mod that registers client/server discrepancies regarding hit reg and what state the aliens were, we could play some PCWs and then hand the data over to them. Those blue/red lines isn't good enough.
Performance and hit registration are very closely related. Working on one will more than likely improve the other.
There are several top priorities, including balance, performance and issues like hitreg. Not just one.
As for it being known, Asraniel is asking for more information, simply because UWE still needs it. The more info they get, the better they can squash bugs. It's known that there are problems with hitreg, but there's no exact 'bug' listed, as the origin of the problem is not known to us playtesters (UWE might know by now).
Mind you, we don't have a 'direct' line of contact with UWE (e.g. chat, skype or whatever). Most of the day, they're just working hard, cranking out new code and fixes to existing code. Good chance they'll fix things (or sometimes, break them) while adressing other issues. Hitreg is a part of the netcode, something that is definitely being worked on. Deity is right on the money with his post.
TL;DR: Work in progress, send in more (reproducable) info if you want to help!
EDIT: I forgot to mention, as far as a 'tool' for hitreg analyzing, I seem to remember *someone* was working on that, but I'm not absolutely sure. If I find info on it, I'll post it here. If not, I was wrong. Good idea none the less. One of the programmers is actually making tools to help polish the game, not sure if a hitreg tool is in the pipeline there.
EDIT2: Talked to Max (engine programmer) about this. There's no tools available that are easy enough to use for people like you and I. He does have tools he uses himself and he's spending time on hitreg.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=119242" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=119242</a>
To me it's not clear at all to what extend the hitreg is bad, because the interpretation of the hitreg debugging tool is not clear. What we need is something like the percentage of bullets the players aimed correctly on the client and were not confirmed by the server.
I think performance will improve hitreg mainly if the tickrate is increased, but I doubt it will happen since we still need to increase the player count quite a bit and diminish required server specifications.