<!--quoteo(post=1954059:date=Jul 26 2012, 09:02 PM:name=Deity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deity @ Jul 26 2012, 09:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954059"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can you expand on why you feel lerk poison and flamethrowers aren't fun?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Lerk poison</b>
As lerk, you don't see the damage you are dealing, unlike most of other attacks. Doing one bite, waiting 5 seconds, going for the second bite hoping that the marine you just bite is still there is a bit boring, I prefer to go in and out faster and land a bite each time, counting the bites. The timing you're going in for a bite is an interesting part of the game (e.g. going during reload, doing fake retreat, ..), having a fixed timing is much less fun.
As marine you need to run back to an armory to heal, which is obviously not super fun.
<b>Flamethrowers</b>
As alien you need to get away and wait, which is obviously not super fun. You also get your screen lagged with damage indicators.
As marine you don't really need to aim that much or have a correct timing like with the shotgun, you just spray it around, and catch everything (I proposed to make it more like a burst fireball at some point, but the idea didn't add much sucess :).
<!--quoteo(post=1954061:date=Jul 26 2012, 09:04 PM:name=hapi18)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hapi18 @ Jul 26 2012, 09:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954061"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still got 10 FPS on tram when fighting. Is this normal? The game will be shipped in this state? Core 2 duo and AMD 4850. When i preordered the, minimum requirements where way below my PC. I preordered in January and waited patiently, but now the release date is near and i think the remaining time is not enough for the team to perfectly optimize this engine...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's just my personal feeling, but I doubt you will be able to play at decent fps with this kind of cpu on release. A miracle is alway possible though.
<!--quoteo(post=1954002:date=Jul 25 2012, 09:00 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Jul 25 2012, 09:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954002"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please post comments on the topic Natural Selection 2 News Update - NS2 Build 215 released here<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fades are hilariously broken and have been the entire time I have been playing. It takes and <i>uber</i> organized team to down just one of them, and I <i>rarely</i> see one die in a public game, even when 4-5 marines are all shooting assault rifles at it. They just "shadow step" in, attack a bit, bail, get healed by their gorge (which is often happy to be hanging out with Fades and is usually just out of the marine's reach) then poof back in and do the same thing, over and over, until all the marines defending an area die.
There needs to be some limit on shadow stepping so you have to think about how you're going to use it and you can't just use it continually to be impossible to keep up with or kill. A Fade should be powerful, very powerful, but handled poorly they should be vulnerable. Right now they have an easy escape button such that almost always they get out alive, even when diving face-first into many enemies.
Anyone who claims otherwise is trolling or doesn't play public games, Fades and shadow step in specific are the biggest problem with this game right now, and I'll probably not be playing regularly until I see some kind of change. Hitting a fade with a shotgun blast after shotgun blast to no effect because he can just duck out of the room over and over for infinite health isn't fun at all, and though I have managed to chase one down and kill it on a couple occasions those occasions were entirely due to the Fade just plain not realizing he was being followed (because who chases a fade) and/or the enemy gorge not being around to heal the fade.
As marine you don't really need to aim that much or have a correct timing like with the shotgun, you just spray it around, and catch everything.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is patently, hilariously, embarrassingly false. If you aren't choosing your shots carefully with the shotgun you're most likely doing no considerable damage at all.
The same problem with Fades exists with Lerks to a lesser degree, though it is more "fitting" as they are a cheaper unit with less volatility (they don't shred your face instantly). That is, in the hands of a knowledgeable player their speed combined with poor system performance, server performance, and hit registration issues can make them very difficult to kill, even if you're hitting them lots.
<!--quoteo(post=1954015:date=Jul 26 2012, 10:59 AM:name=Daphisto)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Daphisto @ Jul 26 2012, 10:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954015"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The scary thing is that the reason for this change is for helping with 1-base stalemates....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because there was an abundance of stalemates and we're starving for more landslide alien facerape.
<!--quoteo(post=1954067:date=Jul 26 2012, 01:17 PM:name=dethovu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dethovu @ Jul 26 2012, 01:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954067"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can now get refunds for video games that you no longer enjoy? Man, do I have a laundry list of games to cash-in on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One can always do a chargeback for quality where the consumer claims to have never received the goods as promised at the time of purchase. "no longer enjoy" isn't the same as "never enjoyed" & "never functioned".
Of course I am not going to do that because I have faith that the Unknown Worlds team <i>wants</i> this game to succeed, and so do I, and that in time it will become a better experience. From what I have seen, they are working rapidly to resolve all sorts of issues including direct communication with the community, which is more than many small developers would put forward; and in just the first patch I have seen already major improvements in the game.
What people aren't talking about, all the little things, that's what makes me sure this game is on the road to greatness. The gui improvements alone were a real surprise.
<!--quoteo(post=1954065:date=Jul 26 2012, 09:14 PM:name=blujay)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blujay @ Jul 26 2012, 09:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954065"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is patently, hilariously, embarrassingly false. If you aren't choosing your shots carefully with the shotgun you're most likely doing no considerable damage at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You misread or misunderstood me there. You can blame my bad grammar if you like.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1954061:date=Jul 26 2012, 09:04 PM:name=hapi18)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hapi18 @ Jul 26 2012, 09:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954061"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still got 10 FPS on tram when fighting. Is this normal? The game will be shipped in this state? Core 2 duo and AMD 4850. When i preordered the, minimum requirements where way below my PC. I preordered in January and waited patiently, but now the release date is near and i think the remaining time is not enough for the team to perfectly optimize this engine...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't dip below 15FPS, but yeah FPS has gone down for me as well from ~22FPS in combat. I'm running my C2D @ 3.22Ghz, also have a HD4850 (512Mb).
The game still has a lot of optimisation potential, it's just that the last 2 or 3 builds have offloaded a bunch of things to the client side. Making the server perform better and as a result causing less net issues, but adding to the load on older rigs like ours.
<!--quoteo(post=1954070:date=Jul 26 2012, 01:24 PM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Jul 26 2012, 01:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954070"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You misread or misunderstood me there. You can blame my bad grammar if you like.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What exactly did you mean by:
<!--quoteo(post=1954070:date=Jul 26 2012, 01:24 PM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Jul 26 2012, 01:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954070"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As marine <b>you don't really need to aim that much</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
then?
I'm not knocking you personally, it's just that both teams <i>definitely</i> need to aim lots more than that much.
<!--quoteo(post=1954061:date=Jul 26 2012, 01:04 PM:name=hapi18)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hapi18 @ Jul 26 2012, 01:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954061"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still got 10 FPS on tram when fighting. Is this normal? The game will be shipped in this state? Core 2 duo and AMD 4850. When i preordered the, minimum requirements where way below my PC. I preordered in January and waited patiently, but now the release date is near and i think the remaining time is not enough for the team to perfectly optimize this engine...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I had a core2duo as well, with as many tweaks as I could find. Still didn't help. Thankfully i saved up enough to do a full ivy bridge upgrade. Hopefully they can make some performance improvements to help the core2duo people out.
<!--quoteo(post=1954073:date=Jul 26 2012, 01:29 PM:name=VoodooHex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VoodooHex @ Jul 26 2012, 01:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954073"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I had a core2duo as well, with as many tweaks as I could find. Still didn't help. Thankfully i saved up enough to do a full ivy bridge upgrade. Hopefully they can make some performance improvements to help the core2duo people out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I noticed a marked improvement in the latest patch in overall performance on my C2D / GTX460 box.
There should be a keybind for last weapon picked. Like in Counter-strike, the button is Q where you can switch between main gun/grenade or main gun/pistol. etc.
Please add to the game, it's much easier than mouse scrolling or pressing numbers.
<!--quoteo(post=1954075:date=Jul 26 2012, 01:30 PM:name=GibbyLOL)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GibbyLOL @ Jul 26 2012, 01:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954075"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There should be a keybind for last weapon picked. Like in Counter-strike, the button is Q where you can switch between main gun/grenade or main gun/pistol. etc.
Please add to the game, it's much easier than mouse scrolling or pressing numbers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You should try moving 3 to Q and 4-5 to 3-4. It seems awkward at first but it's something I've been doing for years (Q is melee) and it works great. Keeps you from ever havign to reach for 5.
Except when I go back to battlefield 3 and forget it's F because the "spot" function on Q is definitely used much more often than melee in that game.
i think the idea of lerk bite poison is that you finish them off with your gas as it really stays quite long. one thing which took me quite long to figure out is the hit-feedback you have as a lerk when hitting someone with a bite (some vertical green lines i belive). knowing wether you hit seems quite essential for this strategy, as gas will not help as much against full-health marines. from a marines perspective, you don't lose any armor from the poison or the gas (only a bit due to the first bite), so you can happily fight on after a commander dropped you some medpacks (after the poison wears off that is).
anyway, i like this patch overall. but i am also bothered with the removal of armor-restore. it just feels off that you can end up in your own main base being weaker than at spawn time so i'd like to see it happening on advanced armories at least. this would still not be as effective as welders on the front lines... as for 1-base-stalemates, don't you think a team of turtling marines will have a few guys with welders standing around? they have to repair the damaged buildings anyway and welding teammates in your base is considerably easier than welding them within enemy territory.
<!--quoteo(post=1954065:date=Jul 26 2012, 05:14 PM:name=blujay)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blujay @ Jul 26 2012, 05:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954065"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fades are hilariously broken and have been the entire time I have been playing. It takes and <i>uber</i> organized team to down just one of them, and I <i>rarely</i> see one die in a public game, even when 4-5 marines are all shooting assault rifles at it. They just "shadow step" in, attack a bit, bail, get healed by their gorge (which is often happy to be hanging out with Fades and is usually just out of the marine's reach) then poof back in and do the same thing, over and over, until all the marines defending an area die.
There needs to be some limit on shadow stepping so you have to think about how you're going to use it and you can't just use it continually to be impossible to keep up with or kill. A Fade should be powerful, very powerful, but handled poorly they should be vulnerable. Right now they have an easy escape button such that almost always they get out alive, even when diving face-first into many enemies.
Anyone who claims otherwise is trolling or doesn't play public games, Fades and shadow step in specific are the biggest problem with this game right now, and I'll probably not be playing regularly until I see some kind of change. Hitting a fade with a shotgun blast after shotgun blast to no effect because he can just duck out of the room over and over for infinite health isn't fun at all, and though I have managed to chase one down and kill it on a couple occasions those occasions were entirely due to the Fade just plain not realizing he was being followed (because who chases a fade) and/or the enemy gorge not being around to heal the fade.
This is patently, hilariously, embarrassingly false. If you aren't choosing your shots carefully with the shotgun you're most likely doing no considerable damage at all.
The same problem with Fades exists with Lerks to a lesser degree, though it is more "fitting" as they are a cheaper unit with less volatility (they don't shred your face instantly). That is, in the hands of a knowledgeable player their speed combined with poor system performance, server performance, and hit registration issues can make them very difficult to kill, even if you're hitting them lots.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
learn 2 aim? i've killed 3 fades in a row without reloading my shotty before blink speed was nerfed/cara speed nerf was introduced.
I find it shame unknownworlds is lowering it self to ea standaart, wrap up guys we need to release tomorrow, remove what is not working an finish the game half done with 15% of what we showed and want olayers it to be.
Im realy disapointed is bought nother pre order game tha had so much promise in it way it should be and ends up beeyi g deceived with crap end work.
I think dev should go back to build 200 where life forms where tide to number of hives, hydra perm and cost pres and could make mini cyst, build where gorge still where fun, game was more balanced then it is now.
Go back from that finish what is missig and tweak a little bit, this game is not about fast games, it a shooter rts, rts takes time.
Realy ruining this game for crap od balance of half done unfair team play, how the ###### can you balance if 1 team is done and other team missin half of it? You cant and yet you try, clearly seems higher aducated people missing part of logic.
Thank you for making great game, but to bad you ruinig your own creation.
<!--quoteo(post=1954072:date=Jul 26 2012, 09:28 PM:name=blujay)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blujay @ Jul 26 2012, 09:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954072"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What exactly did you mean by:
"As marine you don't really need to aim that much"
then?
I'm not knocking you personally, it's just that both teams <i>definitely</i> need to aim lots more than that much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This was in the flamethrower section, so it apply to the flamethrower only, I was basically comparing the amount of aiming/timing of the flamethrower vs shotgun.
<!--quoteo(post=1954084:date=Jul 26 2012, 02:01 PM:name=Wheeee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wheeee @ Jul 26 2012, 02:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954084"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->learn 2 aim? i've killed 3 fades in a row without reloading my shotty before blink speed was nerfed/cara speed nerf was introduced.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Learn to play in any of the pub servers? I've watched aliens win 5X in a row because none of the 9 marines could kill 1 Fade. So you can anecdote all day but that's not what's being seen in the servers.
<!--quoteo(post=1954086:date=Jul 26 2012, 02:02 PM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Jul 26 2012, 02:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954086"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This was in the flamethrower section, so it apply to the flamethrower only, I was basically comparing the amount of aiming/timing of the flamethrower vs shotgun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right, now I understand. That's true. I could see higher damage/lower duration flamethrower.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1954085:date=Jul 26 2012, 11:01 PM:name=-Azona-)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (-Azona- @ Jul 26 2012, 11:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954085"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Realy ruining this game for crap od balance of half done unfair team play, how the ###### can you balance if 1 team is done and other team missin half of it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wtf did I just read? I don't even...
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
My ancient athlon x64 4000+ Brisbane and ati hd6770 graphics card still gets sub 15fps with all settings ticked off in docking. Please lighten the cpu dependency.
The armory repairing armor should be an researchable upgrade. Maybe couple it with the advanced armory upgrade? Right now the advanced armory doesn't give any benefit on it's own, it's only there to unlock an higher tech-tier and besides that offers no actual gameplay advantage.
Needing welders to repair powernodes sounds cool at first, but coupled with the lack of armor healing on armories this forces marine commanders to get welders ASAP no matter what. I don't know how forcing players into certain builds is a good change, in the end it only leads to less diversity in strategies and overall gameplay.
Also: Lowering range on skulk bite, by such an hurge margin, at this point has to be the worst change ever. People have been playing NS2 for quite a while now getting used to certain things. Changing something as fundamental as this, out of the blue for no obvious reasons, just feels like a total buzzkill. Yes people can adapt to anything and will adapt to anything you throw at them but it still feels wrong.
<!--quoteo(post=1954087:date=Jul 26 2012, 06:02 PM:name=blujay)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blujay @ Jul 26 2012, 06:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954087"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Learn to play in any of the pub servers? I've watched aliens win 5X in a row because none of the 9 marines could kill 1 Fade. So you can anecdote all day but that's not what's being seen in the servers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i play on pub servers 99% of the time. i've been in 2 organized scrims in the entirety of the ns2 alpha/beta (during both of which i did terribly), and i didn't play competitively in ns1. i am by no means a l33t d00d with mad twitch aim. the problem with the 9 marines scenario is because they didn't work together, which has nothing to do with the fade and everything with the mindset of the marines.
<!--quoteo(post=1954087:date=Jul 27 2012, 12:02 AM:name=blujay)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blujay @ Jul 27 2012, 12:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954087"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Learn to play in any of the pub servers? I've watched aliens win 5X in a row because none of the 9 marines could kill 1 Fade. So you can anecdote all day but that's not what's being seen in the servers.
Right, now I understand. That's true. I could see higher damage/lower duration flamethrower.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fades go down. Some support from the comm and a single marine can go against a fade, takes good aiming though. End of story. I don't know which pubs you play on.
I'm also still getting low FPS even after this build, I had really good FPS back in build 210 but after 212 it back down. I was averaging 40-50FPS back in build 210, but after 212 it's down to 30-20ish.
Tried a few rounds with the good folks at All-In (had my first round as human commander, too! We lost :/ ) And wow, I noticed almost immediately how much better the hit reg seemed. FPS was still a big hinderance to my aiming, but I have faith that more optimizations will come.
All in all, this build feels really good -- it seems like Gorge healing is a little OP at the moment, and often when trying to place structures, it wouldn't go on the first try. Minor stuff -- won two rounds, lost two rounds, I believe, so no real major complaints. Enjoying it! Keep up the good work :)
Love the armory change. It is a good setup before exo comes in AND gives welders that much more importance. Not sure on the power node/welder relationship, then again i hate power nodes =)
<!--quoteo(post=1954075:date=Jul 27 2012, 12:30 AM:name=GibbyLOL)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GibbyLOL @ Jul 27 2012, 12:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954075"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There should be a keybind for last weapon picked. Like in Counter-strike, the button is Q where you can switch between main gun/grenade or main gun/pistol. etc.
Please add to the game, it's much easier than mouse scrolling or pressing numbers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is what I've been missing also and it's easy to do...
<!--quoteo(post=1954091:date=Jul 27 2012, 01:11 AM:name=rebirth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rebirth @ Jul 27 2012, 01:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954091"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The armory repairing armor should be an researchable upgrade. Maybe couple it with the advanced armory upgrade? Right now the advanced armory doesn't give any benefit on it's own, it's only there to unlock an higher tech-tier and besides that offers no actual gameplay advantage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
Or, I was thinking that if we need welders in armory at all, I mean shouldn't it be in default gear? At least they should be cheaper.
Anyway, guys you should chill out. Balancing takes time and theres sometimes one step forward and two step backwards. I think this is important thing for UWE and they want to work it out, as the balanced gameplay, in the end, is what keeps players playing the game.
I have been playing most of today so far, and a few games last night. I am surprised to say this, but the game seems more balanced to me... so far. Marines got nerfed while aliens were OP and the game got balanced? It is odd but it is what I have seen.
I've only tried two or three servers so far, but they were absolutely unplayable for me - as soon as I joined a server with open slots, my ping would just go up, and up, and up (3,000ms to 11,000ms or so)... choke would hit 100% and I could be sat looking at the same static screen for 15 seconds, then one thing might move slightly, then it'd go static again.
Even before it got to that stage, I was starting to see the rubber banding effect again, and my player model "ahead" of my viewpoint.
I've since done a variety of broadband speed tests on my connection and i'm getting a solid 5Mbit/sec (or higher) downstream, 1.5Mbit/sec upstream, so I don't know what's causing these issues at all.
Running a local server doesn't seem to have this problem, but there's an issue I spotted I'll put in a separate post...
By the way, concerning alien vision... I'm glad the energy cost was taken back, but it still has the same problems as before. I leave vision on more often than not - begrudgingly, because it ruins the art assets once the coolness of the effect has worn off. I still maintain that alien night vision goggles are a failed experiment. They need vision augmentation almost all the time, so they should just have constant vision enhancement and be done with it. Some new effect that makes marines stand out but is otherwise subtle, more along the lines of NS1.
I realize you guys are strapped for time pre-release and probably won't get to do anything fancy, but for now I would take any quick fix that makes the effect more subtle and doesn't completely kill all the textures.
Comments
<b>Lerk poison</b>
As lerk, you don't see the damage you are dealing, unlike most of other attacks. Doing one bite, waiting 5 seconds, going for the second bite hoping that the marine you just bite is still there is a bit boring, I prefer to go in and out faster and land a bite each time, counting the bites. The timing you're going in for a bite is an interesting part of the game (e.g. going during reload, doing fake retreat, ..), having a fixed timing is much less fun.
As marine you need to run back to an armory to heal, which is obviously not super fun.
<b>Flamethrowers</b>
As alien you need to get away and wait, which is obviously not super fun. You also get your screen lagged with damage indicators.
As marine you don't really need to aim that much or have a correct timing like with the shotgun, you just spray it around, and catch everything (I proposed to make it more like a burst fireball at some point, but the idea didn't add much sucess :).
<!--quoteo(post=1954061:date=Jul 26 2012, 09:04 PM:name=hapi18)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hapi18 @ Jul 26 2012, 09:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954061"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still got 10 FPS on tram when fighting. Is this normal? The game will be shipped in this state? Core 2 duo and AMD 4850. When i preordered the, minimum requirements where way below my PC. I preordered in January and waited patiently, but now the release date is near and i think the remaining time is not enough for the team to perfectly optimize this engine...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's just my personal feeling, but I doubt you will be able to play at decent fps with this kind of cpu on release. A miracle is alway possible though.
Fades are hilariously broken and have been the entire time I have been playing. It takes and <i>uber</i> organized team to down just one of them, and I <i>rarely</i> see one die in a public game, even when 4-5 marines are all shooting assault rifles at it. They just "shadow step" in, attack a bit, bail, get healed by their gorge (which is often happy to be hanging out with Fades and is usually just out of the marine's reach) then poof back in and do the same thing, over and over, until all the marines defending an area die.
There needs to be some limit on shadow stepping so you have to think about how you're going to use it and you can't just use it continually to be impossible to keep up with or kill. A Fade should be powerful, very powerful, but handled poorly they should be vulnerable. Right now they have an easy escape button such that almost always they get out alive, even when diving face-first into many enemies.
Anyone who claims otherwise is trolling or doesn't play public games, Fades and shadow step in specific are the biggest problem with this game right now, and I'll probably not be playing regularly until I see some kind of change. Hitting a fade with a shotgun blast after shotgun blast to no effect because he can just duck out of the room over and over for infinite health isn't fun at all, and though I have managed to chase one down and kill it on a couple occasions those occasions were entirely due to the Fade just plain not realizing he was being followed (because who chases a fade) and/or the enemy gorge not being around to heal the fade.
<!--quoteo(post=1954064:date=Jul 26 2012, 01:13 PM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Jul 26 2012, 01:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954064"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Lerk poison</b>
As marine you don't really need to aim that much or have a correct timing like with the shotgun, you just spray it around, and catch everything.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is patently, hilariously, embarrassingly false. If you aren't choosing your shots carefully with the shotgun you're most likely doing no considerable damage at all.
The same problem with Fades exists with Lerks to a lesser degree, though it is more "fitting" as they are a cheaper unit with less volatility (they don't shred your face instantly). That is, in the hands of a knowledgeable player their speed combined with poor system performance, server performance, and hit registration issues can make them very difficult to kill, even if you're hitting them lots.
You can now get refunds for video games that you no longer enjoy? Man, do I have a laundry list of games to cash-in on.
Because there was an abundance of stalemates and we're starving for more landslide alien facerape.
<!--quoteo(post=1954067:date=Jul 26 2012, 01:17 PM:name=dethovu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dethovu @ Jul 26 2012, 01:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954067"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can now get refunds for video games that you no longer enjoy? Man, do I have a laundry list of games to cash-in on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One can always do a chargeback for quality where the consumer claims to have never received the goods as promised at the time of purchase. "no longer enjoy" isn't the same as "never enjoyed" & "never functioned".
Of course I am not going to do that because I have faith that the Unknown Worlds team <i>wants</i> this game to succeed, and so do I, and that in time it will become a better experience. From what I have seen, they are working rapidly to resolve all sorts of issues including direct communication with the community, which is more than many small developers would put forward; and in just the first patch I have seen already major improvements in the game.
What people aren't talking about, all the little things, that's what makes me sure this game is on the road to greatness. The gui improvements alone were a real surprise.
You misread or misunderstood me there. You can blame my bad grammar if you like.
I don't dip below 15FPS, but yeah FPS has gone down for me as well from ~22FPS in combat. I'm running my C2D @ 3.22Ghz, also have a HD4850 (512Mb).
The game still has a lot of optimisation potential, it's just that the last 2 or 3 builds have offloaded a bunch of things to the client side. Making the server perform better and as a result causing less net issues, but adding to the load on older rigs like ours.
What exactly did you mean by:
<!--quoteo(post=1954070:date=Jul 26 2012, 01:24 PM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Jul 26 2012, 01:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954070"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As marine <b>you don't really need to aim that much</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
then?
I'm not knocking you personally, it's just that both teams <i>definitely</i> need to aim lots more than that much.
I had a core2duo as well, with as many tweaks as I could find. Still didn't help. Thankfully i saved up enough to do a full ivy bridge upgrade. Hopefully they can make some performance improvements to help the core2duo people out.
I noticed a marked improvement in the latest patch in overall performance on my C2D / GTX460 box.
Please add to the game, it's much easier than mouse scrolling or pressing numbers.
Please add to the game, it's much easier than mouse scrolling or pressing numbers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You should try moving 3 to Q and 4-5 to 3-4. It seems awkward at first but it's something I've been doing for years (Q is melee) and it works great. Keeps you from ever havign to reach for 5.
Except when I go back to battlefield 3 and forget it's F because the "spot" function on Q is definitely used much more often than melee in that game.
one thing which took me quite long to figure out is the hit-feedback you have as a lerk when hitting someone with a bite (some vertical green lines i belive). knowing wether you hit seems quite essential for this strategy, as gas will not help as much against full-health marines.
from a marines perspective, you don't lose any armor from the poison or the gas (only a bit due to the first bite), so you can happily fight on after a commander dropped you some medpacks (after the poison wears off that is).
anyway, i like this patch overall. but i am also bothered with the removal of armor-restore. it just feels off that you can end up in your own main base being weaker than at spawn time so i'd like to see it happening on advanced armories at least. this would still not be as effective as welders on the front lines...
as for 1-base-stalemates, don't you think a team of turtling marines will have a few guys with welders standing around? they have to repair the damaged buildings anyway and welding teammates in your base is considerably easier than welding them within enemy territory.
There needs to be some limit on shadow stepping so you have to think about how you're going to use it and you can't just use it continually to be impossible to keep up with or kill. A Fade should be powerful, very powerful, but handled poorly they should be vulnerable. Right now they have an easy escape button such that almost always they get out alive, even when diving face-first into many enemies.
Anyone who claims otherwise is trolling or doesn't play public games, Fades and shadow step in specific are the biggest problem with this game right now, and I'll probably not be playing regularly until I see some kind of change. Hitting a fade with a shotgun blast after shotgun blast to no effect because he can just duck out of the room over and over for infinite health isn't fun at all, and though I have managed to chase one down and kill it on a couple occasions those occasions were entirely due to the Fade just plain not realizing he was being followed (because who chases a fade) and/or the enemy gorge not being around to heal the fade.
This is patently, hilariously, embarrassingly false. If you aren't choosing your shots carefully with the shotgun you're most likely doing no considerable damage at all.
The same problem with Fades exists with Lerks to a lesser degree, though it is more "fitting" as they are a cheaper unit with less volatility (they don't shred your face instantly). That is, in the hands of a knowledgeable player their speed combined with poor system performance, server performance, and hit registration issues can make them very difficult to kill, even if you're hitting them lots.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
learn 2 aim? i've killed 3 fades in a row without reloading my shotty before blink speed was nerfed/cara speed nerf was introduced.
Im realy disapointed is bought nother pre order game tha had so much promise in it way it should be and ends up beeyi g deceived with crap end work.
I think dev should go back to build 200 where life forms where tide to number of hives, hydra perm and cost pres and could make mini cyst, build where gorge still where fun, game was more balanced then it is now.
Go back from that finish what is missig and tweak a little bit, this game is not about fast games, it a shooter rts, rts takes time.
Realy ruining this game for crap od balance of half done unfair team play, how the ###### can you balance if 1 team is done and other team missin half of it? You cant and yet you try, clearly seems higher aducated people missing part of logic.
Thank you for making great game, but to bad you ruinig your own creation.
"As marine you don't really need to aim that much"
then?
I'm not knocking you personally, it's just that both teams <i>definitely</i> need to aim lots more than that much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This was in the flamethrower section, so it apply to the flamethrower only, I was basically comparing the amount of aiming/timing of the flamethrower vs shotgun.
Learn to play in any of the pub servers? I've watched aliens win 5X in a row because none of the 9 marines could kill 1 Fade. So you can anecdote all day but that's not what's being seen in the servers.
<!--quoteo(post=1954086:date=Jul 26 2012, 02:02 PM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Jul 26 2012, 02:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954086"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This was in the flamethrower section, so it apply to the flamethrower only, I was basically comparing the amount of aiming/timing of the flamethrower vs shotgun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right, now I understand. That's true. I could see higher damage/lower duration flamethrower.
Wtf did I just read? I don't even...
Needing welders to repair powernodes sounds cool at first, but coupled with the lack of armor healing on armories this forces marine commanders to get welders ASAP no matter what. I don't know how forcing players into certain builds is a good change, in the end it only leads to less diversity in strategies and overall gameplay.
Also: Lowering range on skulk bite, by such an hurge margin, at this point has to be the worst change ever. People have been playing NS2 for quite a while now getting used to certain things. Changing something as fundamental as this, out of the blue for no obvious reasons, just feels like a total buzzkill. Yes people can adapt to anything and will adapt to anything you throw at them but it still feels wrong.
i play on pub servers 99% of the time. i've been in 2 organized scrims in the entirety of the ns2 alpha/beta (during both of which i did terribly), and i didn't play competitively in ns1. i am by no means a l33t d00d with mad twitch aim. the problem with the 9 marines scenario is because they didn't work together, which has nothing to do with the fade and everything with the mindset of the marines.
Right, now I understand. That's true. I could see higher damage/lower duration flamethrower.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fades go down. Some support from the comm and a single marine can go against a fade, takes good aiming though. End of story. I don't know which pubs you play on.
All in all, this build feels really good -- it seems like Gorge healing is a little OP at the moment, and often when trying to place structures, it wouldn't go on the first try. Minor stuff -- won two rounds, lost two rounds, I believe, so no real major complaints. Enjoying it! Keep up the good work :)
Calling it now: this will be addressed in build 218 after a 15 page thread that gets closed because someone says a bad word.
Please add to the game, it's much easier than mouse scrolling or pressing numbers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is what I've been missing also and it's easy to do...
<!--quoteo(post=1954091:date=Jul 27 2012, 01:11 AM:name=rebirth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rebirth @ Jul 27 2012, 01:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954091"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The armory repairing armor should be an researchable upgrade. Maybe couple it with the advanced armory upgrade? Right now the advanced armory doesn't give any benefit on it's own, it's only there to unlock an higher tech-tier and besides that offers no actual gameplay advantage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
Or, I was thinking that if we need welders in armory at all, I mean shouldn't it be in default gear? At least they should be cheaper.
Anyway, guys you should chill out. Balancing takes time and theres sometimes one step forward and two step backwards. I think this is important thing for UWE and they want to work it out, as the balanced gameplay, in the end, is what keeps players playing the game.
Even before it got to that stage, I was starting to see the rubber banding effect again, and my player model "ahead" of my viewpoint.
I've since done a variety of broadband speed tests on my connection and i'm getting a solid 5Mbit/sec (or higher) downstream, 1.5Mbit/sec upstream, so I don't know what's causing these issues at all.
Running a local server doesn't seem to have this problem, but there's an issue I spotted I'll put in a separate post...
I realize you guys are strapped for time pre-release and probably won't get to do anything fancy, but for now I would take any quick fix that makes the effect more subtle and doesn't completely kill all the textures.