Free Hydra Adjustments

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• IronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts

  July 2012

  You're awesome. <b>Thanks for doing this.</b>
  
  I'm just now starting to read through these, but has anyone mentioned how to scale hydras throughout the game? That way we dont have to have a hard cap and can keep the class interesting throughout a round?
  
  I was thinking of something along the lines of building up a "bacteria meter" or something when you heal people/structures. The more you heal the more this meter fills up, and when its full you drop another hydra. (you'd start with one hydra and they'd be permanent regardless of you dying)
  
  It would scale with your team's progression as well as realllllly encourage that combat engineer role!

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• douchebagatron Custom member title Join Date: 2003-12-20 Member: 24581Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  i vote for researchable buffs. basically just allow for lesser versions of of the normal buffs. the defense hive can research a hydra buff so there's a light healing aura, the sensory hive can research a slight marine detection aura, and the movement hive can research a slight adrenaline replenishment aura.
  
  This way they'll get more useful as the game goes on. it's not directly tied to hives and it's more obvious what's going on. also, it could be easily balanced by tweaking the range and power of each buff. hydras are free but are tied to the number of gorges, and as gorges are support units this would be the ultimate support.

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• Asraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer

  July 2012

  What i would like to see is this:
  
  Gorges are very strong early game with 3 hydras + 10 clogs. they can hold a hallway easily while healing. Later in the game, they are less useful. What i would like to see is either the hydras become stronger with more hives, or you can have more of them. With hive 1 they should be weaker (or less of them) than right now, and with 3 hives stronger (or more). Same goes for clogs.
  
  What i also don't like is the fact that hydras are not permanent. I probably agree that they should not cost pres and because they are free its easy to spam them. But they could for example stay even if the play is not a gorge anymore if the hydras was 100% mature. The mature mechanic already exists and if there is a visual clue (why not havin not mature hydras only have 1 head and the mature ones 3) the player should be able to understand that.

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• botchiball Join Date: 2003-04-24 Member: 15810Members, Constellation

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  <!--quoteo(post=1954874:date=Jul 29 2012, 01:06 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Jul 29 2012, 01:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954874"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->has anyone mentioned how to scale hydras throughout the game? That way we dont have to have a hard cap and can keep the class interesting throughout a round?
  
  I was thinking of something along the lines of building up a "bacteria meter" or something when you heal people/structures. The more you heal the more this meter fills up, and when its full you drop another hydra. (you'd start with one hydra and they'd be permanent regardless of you dying)
  
  It would scale with your team's progression as well as realllllly encourage that combat engineer role!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  This is a cool idea ironhorse - reminds me a lot of the TF2 medic's uber power meter. I do see a problem with longer games meaning more Hydras - possibly hitting the "too many Hydras" mark. Especially if Hydras are kept in certain areas -> those certain areas could easily cause a lot of chug, even if they are within the true cap limit (though this could be true now, we just don't see it).
  
  I like the idea of scaling Hydras through out the game -> but you realize that this is pretty much against the current thinking for the Kharaa? Kharaa damage doesn't scale (directly) in any other circumstance, though other abilities are made available as they progress. I'm thinking that 6john may be up to something good in the next post.
  
  <!--quoteo(post=1954879:date=Jul 29 2012, 01:41 PM:name=6john)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (6john @ Jul 29 2012, 01:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954879"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i vote for researchable buffs. basically just allow for lesser versions of of the normal buffs. the defense hive can research a hydra buff so there's a light healing aura, the sensory hive can research a slight marine detection aura, and the movement hive can research a slight adrenaline replenishment aura.
  
  This way they'll get more useful as the game goes on. it's not directly tied to hives and it's more obvious what's going on. also, it could be easily balanced by tweaking the range and power of each buff. hydras are free but are tied to the number of gorges, and as gorges are support units this would be the ultimate support.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  I like this concept, but not really the status benefits you suggested. I really think that these sort of "non-damage benefits" are the way to make the Hydra more beneficial as the game progresses. However, I don't really like the overlap of these suggestions, imagine 3 (or 6 or 9) healing Hydras; plus there is overlap in that all of the tasks you suggested are already provided on the team (Gorge heals, Drifters detect, and Shifts provide energy). I'm also thinking that they could simply become active once a hive goes up (for all Hydras).
  
  Keeping in the same concept, why not something more like the following:
  <!--coloro:#F5DEB3--><span style="color:#F5DEB3"><!--/coloro-->Standard:<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
  20 Damage per Spike
  <!--coloro:#F5DEB3--><span style="color:#F5DEB3"><!--/coloro-->Crag Hive Bonus:<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
  +50% healing to all healing effects within 15 meters - not doing healing on its own, but a Gorge, Crag, Hive, or creature with Regen would receive a bonus to the effect applied.
  <!--coloro:#F5DEB3--><span style="color:#F5DEB3"><!--/coloro-->Shade Hive Bonus:<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
  "Spook" effect applied to vision of Marines within 15 meters - Marines in range would see structures or lifeforms (which were not really there) fading in and out of camouflage, possibly attacking, running past, etc.
  <!--coloro:#F5DEB3--><span style="color:#F5DEB3"><!--/coloro-->Shift Hive Bonus:<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
  -20% move speed to Marines within 15 meters - visible on the ground as little spikes. Would have to be careful with this as it would make a Hydra's hit scan more accurate.
  
  None of these abilities would stack, it would just be a matter of active or not. I also think the Standard damage could be replaced by a damage multiplier de-buff which stacks on Marine hits (<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=119451" target="_blank">as per this post</a>) - trying to get the Gorge away from just healing structures all the time.
  
  <!--quoteo(post=1954891:date=Jul 29 2012, 02:21 PM:name=Asraniel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Asraniel @ Jul 29 2012, 02:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1954891"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gorges are very strong early game with 3 hydras + 10 clogs. they can hold a hallway easily while healing. Later in the game, they are less useful. What i would like to see is either the hydras become stronger with more hives, or you can have more of them. With hive 1 they should be weaker (or less of them) than right now, and with 3 hives stronger (or more). Same goes for clogs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  This would be true with the above suggestions of removing damage from Hydras and providing "aura boosts" around them. Also, check out the <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=118513" target="_blank">Clog Usefulness suggestion topic over here</a> for ideas on making clogs stronger or weaker with the number of hives - or to post a new suggestion.
  
  @Asraniel: The bit about permanent Hydras -> I believe this is simply a matter of server performance issues and not wanting players to fight against AI all the time. I do like the concept of boosting their benefit the stronger the team is, keeping them relevant - but with the free sticker I'm thinking permanency would be overkill.

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• PsiWarp Gifted Gorge Richmond, B.C., Canada Join Date: 2010-08-28 Member: 73810Members

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  I have an idea to tie Hydras to RTs: <b># of Hydras per Gorge = # of active Harvesters</b>
  
  The Gorge starts with 1 Hydra, which is a minor annoyance for Marines in the early game. At best, it can be used to setup a trap with clever placement, or act as weak defense for an early Clog fort. If the Alien Commander doesn't go for fast Hive, the number of Hydras should quickly increase to current standards as Harvesters are grown.
  
  Gorges can choose to spread out Hydras in different locations, or keep the garden in one spot/near Clog forts (but leaving most RTs exposed). By helping secure more res nodes, area denial is made easier for Gorges, but there are also more areas to be defended. Marines can capitalize on this relation by killing RTs, and every RT killed is 1 less Hydra from every Gorge!
  
  Of course, there needs to be an intuitive way to communicate to Gorge players about this relation. Perhaps a Harvester icon beside the Hydra hard cap might work.

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• Benson Join Date: 2012-03-07 Member: 148303Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow

  July 2012

  I'm for anything that removes hard caps on any object in the game. Tieing # of hydras to # of haresters is a great way to do this, but i think new players might not get it. the "bacteria meter" idea i think is the most viable as the gorge has control over how many hydras can be placed. This could even be further expanded by having the gorge drop clogs AND hydras based on healing done, making the meter fill up slower the more structures are out. This give the gorge more to think about as he has to split his unique resource between his various kinds of structures.
  
  Hydra kills could add a large chunk to this meter, though it might not be able to be called bacteria at that point. This way, the more succesful and proactive a gorge is, the more structures he can have out, though with diminishing returns, spam shouldn't be a problem.
  
  Also, this might remove those nasty hard caps.

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• botchiball Join Date: 2003-04-24 Member: 15810Members, Constellation

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  @PsiWarp: Using Harvesters to "spread" the cap out on Hydras is a cool notion, though I agree it could be a little confusing/frustrating. Also I'm not really convinced that "more Hydras" is the same as "better Hydras" - I'm thinking that pure damage is simply not as helpful or interesting as some sort of effect. Imagine being a Marine fighting the Kharaa with 5 RTs and two Gorges, with possibly 10 Hydras in one tunnel stuffed with Clogs.. I'd rather see the Hydras pushed to something which promotes skill for the Gorges to use as well as skill for Marines to fight - not simply "more Hydras."
  
  Everyone knows how painful fighting a turtle'd band of Marines can be - and was 10 or so builds back - don't really want to flip it.
  
  @Benson: You're talking about tracking some sort of "Bacteria Meter" that is essentially an experience bar which the Gorge would allocate either Clogs or Hydras out of? Interesting.. sounds a bit overly complex with minor benefit though.

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• IronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  Psiwarp, i really like your idea.
  Keeps it scaled for both progression and size of map! Very nice!
  Meaning you always have something to do, although the only issue i see is: Its midgame, i'm low on pres because i tanked too much, should i be allowed to go gorge and plop down 8 hydras somewhere just because our team is doing that well? You need it incrementally, giving more over time, else it could go very wrong.
  
  I dont think that having a hardcap ontop of earning it would hurt, though, so maybe your hardcap is based on the amount of resource towers, (easy to implement visually with transparent hydra icons just above the resource bubbles to the bottom right) <b>yet you earn them by healing</b> etc.. (see how i just combined our ideas?)
  
  op: i'd like this combined idea added to the list :-D, please

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• botchiball Join Date: 2003-04-24 Member: 15810Members, Constellation

  August 2012 edited August 2012

  <!--quoteo(post=1955438:date=Jul 31 2012, 08:04 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Jul 31 2012, 08:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1955438"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->op: i'd like this combined idea added to the list :-D, please<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  Sure, can you flesh it out &/or sum up the whole idea in a few sentences?
  
  I'm a little confused - Gorges can have as many Hydras as there are Harvesters, but only once they have healed enough? Does death reset the "healed enough" status? If death does reset - what happens to the extra Hydras? What happens if you have healed enough but start losing Harvesters -> Hydras die in succession? How does the double cap help the game play for the Gorge or make Hydras more viable?
  
  I'm still leaning toward making the few Hydras stronger somehow vs having more weak Hydras. While at first I did miss Hydras lining the walls, I'm starting to like the Gorge using them as nearby support or as a secondary area support. Maybe Hydras could use some sort of distant alarm system - for when they are under attack but the Gorge isn't around?

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• Benson Join Date: 2012-03-07 Member: 148303Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow

  August 2012

  If the number of hydras remains the same, the remote control mod could be a good way to go. It gives the gorge direct control over what the hydras are attacking, so it doesn't really make them stronger, but it does focus their damage onto 1 target, great for front line hydras. It could even give them an increased firing rate when under control (think wrangler from TF2).
  
  I also like this one because it makes hydras feel more like an ability rather than a structure (thats what it is now anyway)

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• botchiball Join Date: 2003-04-24 Member: 15810Members, Constellation

  August 2012 edited August 2012

  <!--quoteo(post=1955506:date=Aug 1 2012, 04:09 AM:name=Benson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Benson @ Aug 1 2012, 04:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1955506"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If the number of hydras remains the same, the remote control mod could be a good way to go. It gives the gorge direct control over what the hydras are attacking, so it doesn't really make them stronger, but it does focus their damage onto 1 target, great for front line hydras. It could even give them an increased firing rate when under control (think wrangler from TF2).
  
  I also like this one because it makes hydras feel more like an ability rather than a structure (thats what it is now anyway)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  I like that mod for the reasons you gave, and I like that Hydras are still able to do something while the Gorge is busy. Though I am still concerned with Hydras staying as weak as they are throughout the game. Theoretically the remote mod would mean that each Gorge hit would equate to 20*3 Hydras + 40 spit damage = 100 damage per hit, which is really too much damage at first - though it is nicely skill based, and reliant on proper placement. Having the number of Hydras change with the number of Harvesters, or built up via healing, or both, could be one way to increase damage over time - however it would work, it needs to be easy to understand.
  
  Also, no other Kharaan creature/structure ramps up its effectiveness in a similar way (Marines do in their weapon upgrades). Looking back up at 6john's suggestion about hives opening up new options for Hydras, this would work more like the rest of the Kharaan structure upgrades. Plus it makes sense in that the Hydra is both an ability and a structure.

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• botchiball Join Date: 2003-04-24 Member: 15810Members, Constellation

  August 2012

  Any other suggestions on how to improve Hydras while keeping them free? Or any other threads someone wants to combine in this one? *Stoking the fire* here.

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• crypt Join Date: 2004-04-22 Member: 28091Members, Constellation

  August 2012

  Several of the "free hydra" ideas involve concepts that require pRes for upgrades, so I'm not sure how I should post in this thread without mentioning it.

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• botchiball Join Date: 2003-04-24 Member: 15810Members, Constellation

  August 2012

  <!--quoteo(post=1958017:date=Aug 6 2012, 04:37 AM:name=crypt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crypt @ Aug 6 2012, 04:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958017"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Several of the "free hydra" ideas involve concepts that require pRes for upgrades, so I'm not sure how I should post in this thread without mentioning it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  Good point - The idea is to convert them into not using PRes. For example, <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=119112" target="_blank">this idea</a> talks about using PRes to upgrade a Free Hydra. But instead of paying for the upgrades, a Hydra could gain an "Upgrade Point" for each Hive which the team has - using their system, one point would equate to 5 PRes. So some upgrades would require two points. Make sense?

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• Benson Join Date: 2012-03-07 Member: 148303Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow

  August 2012 edited August 2012

  i like the concept of customizable hydras from the previous post. Making a hydra fit each scenario the gorge might encounter would improve his usefulness overall. The idea could be simplified though in order to keep hydras free
  
  For Instance:
  
  Crag hive-option to make a hydra more durable
  
  Shift Hive- Option to make a hydra shoot faster
  
  Shade Hive- Option to make a hydra parasite when they hit, but damage and hp remain the same
  
  This would introduce some strategy in hydras since a strategically placed shade hydra would give the aliens A LOT of intel, while a crag hydra would be better at tanking damage, useful with a shift hydra behind it making up for not having 3 in one place.
  
  It would also encourage variety of hydras. All shift hydras for max damage, and they would still die quickly. All crag hydras and they wont do significant damage late game. All shade hydras....well you don't need 3 hydras parasiting the same player over and over again.
  
  P.S. just went back and re-read 6john's post and decided to leave this one here as its the same concept, but a different implementation

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• rantology Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143750Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold

  August 2012

  Been playing gorge quite a bit lately and one thing that's kind of infuriating to me is that the Clogs don't automatically destroy themselves (like the the hydras' do) when you want to lay more and your quota of 10 has already been reached. I don't want to run across the map to sit there and hold E on them for an additional 10 seconds :|

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• Benson Join Date: 2012-03-07 Member: 148303Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow

  August 2012

  ^ this too, but i had assumed that would be taken care of by default.

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• olisis Join Date: 2003-02-01 Member: 12944Members

  August 2012

  Please add this to the hydra ideas
  
  <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=119145&hl=" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...=119145&hl=</a> by me
  
  or
  
  <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115233&hl=" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...=115233&hl=</a> by theDarkFox
  
  Both are very similar ideas so either one will work. Mine was made with free hydras in mind, but the older one was made back when they still cost res so it can't be faulted for that.

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• IronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts

  August 2012 edited August 2012

  <!--quoteo(post=1955484:date=Jul 31 2012, 09:20 PM:name=botchiball)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (botchiball @ Jul 31 2012, 09:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1955484"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sure, can you flesh it out &/or sum up the whole idea in a few sentences?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  
  Sure:
  
  <ul><li><b>Gorges have as many hydras as the team has harvesters.</b></li><li><b>When they have their bacterial meter filled, they can place a hydra. They fill a bacterial meter on their screen by healing players or structures.</b></li><li>This works with any gorge's playstyle.. want to sit in base? ok you can help build things and maybe forward positions, and just keep your defense there.</li><li>Or you can be the combat gorge and heal the players on the frontlines, all awhile filling that meter further so that you can place hydras.</li><li>Hydras are again not dependent on you being alive.</li><li>The heal meter will reset upon death, but will not influence the already built hydras.</li><li>Hydras still mature.</li><li>This scales with the progression of your team, as well as your role/pacing.</li><li>Gorge is only alarmed about his hydras under attack if he is a gorge.</li><li>It prevents players from dropping in the gorge class and dropping X free hydras and then leaving, </li><li>As well as forcing any sort of perma gorge - you can still switch out to another class after building up your base appropriately.</li><li>You now have a gorge who scales with late game, has an impact, and it is familiar and intuitive, following his role and your own pacing /participation.</li><li>You will never have hydra spam like from pres hydras - unless a team of aliens are all gorges late game , to which i say goodluck against exos or GLs.</li><li>A simple transparent outline of hydras above the resource icons on the bottom right of the screen can be a constant visual reminder, much like an unresearched weapon in the armory, as well as a tooltip of course.</li></ul>

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• botchiball Join Date: 2003-04-24 Member: 15810Members, Constellation

  August 2012 edited August 2012

  <!--quoteo(post=1958840:date=Aug 7 2012, 10:24 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Aug 7 2012, 10:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958840"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sure:
  
  <b>Gorges have as many hydras as the team has harvesters.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  Updated the OP. If you make any changes from here on out, be sure to edit that post as the link goes directly to it.
  
  I'm a little confused about some of your specifics:
  -If Gorge's have as many Hydras as the team has Harvesters, then what is the bacterial meter for? Does a Gorge have a max of the # of Harvesters, but must fill the meter before placing? If yes, does a Gorge start with a free "free" Hydra?
  -About how much healing are you thinking would be appropriate for to fill up the bacterial meter?
  -I like that the different play styles still work out.
  -If Hydras are not dependent on the Gorge being alive, then whats to stop a player from going Gorge, dropping a bunch of Hydras, then switching back? How is this prevented?
  
  I'm still a little weary that 'more Hydras' wont be anything but 'more dodging' by the Marines, or 'more chugging' by the computers. Three seems to be a good number to me (maybe increase one with each new hive), they just need to be more effective as a support structure.. and less effective when grouped up with multiple Gorges healing.
  
  That's actually something which I think should really be discussed -> making Hydras more effective while alone, but less effective (or not much benefit) as a group. <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=119451" target="_blank">As per this suggestion</a> or <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=119596&view=findpost&p=1955199" target="_blank">this post</a>, switching Hydras to do less damage and more effect could really solve a lot of problems.

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• PsiWarp Gifted Gorge Richmond, B.C., Canada Join Date: 2010-08-28 Member: 73810Members

  August 2012 edited August 2012

  I forgot where I read this, but someone suggested Hydras to benefit from their owner Gorge's evolutions. Imagine the rage from Carapace, Feint, and Celerity (faster build speed?), too fun to think about :P
  
  But yeah, since Charlie mentioned adding a small PRes cost to Hydras again while keeping the limit, I am curious to see what would happen if:
  
  - Hydras no longer hard capped
  - Hydras won't expire when owner is not Gorge
  - Mature Hydras die of old age
  - Tweak placement energy cost to deter spam
  
  What I can foresee is Adren and Shifts nullifying the last change, while Gorges rolling res can plop Hydras to their hearts' delight. Hydras would be vulnerable to nades but it could become frustratingly PvS (players vs structures), especially with multiple Gorges and Whips in the mix.
  
  On the bright side, they won't all die if you don't reGorge the moment you respawn. Also, Hydras are strongest when they are about to die anyway.

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• botchiball Join Date: 2003-04-24 Member: 15810Members, Constellation

  August 2012

  <!--quoteo(post=1958932:date=Aug 8 2012, 01:21 AM:name=PsiWarp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsiWarp @ Aug 8 2012, 01:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958932"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I forgot where I read this, but someone suggested Hydras to benefit from their owner Gorge's evolutions. Imagine the rage from Carapace, Feint, and Celerity (faster build speed?), too fun to think about :P
  
  But yeah, since Charlie mentioned adding a small PRes cost to Hydras again while keeping the limit, I am curious to see what would happen if:
  
  - Hydras no longer hard capped
  - Hydras won't expire when owner is not Gorge
  - Mature Hydras die of old age
  - Tweak placement energy cost to deter spam
  
  What I can foresee is Adren and Shifts nullifying the last change, while Gorges rolling res can plop Hydras to their hearts' delight. Hydras would be vulnerable to nades but it could become frustratingly PvS (players vs structures), especially with multiple Gorges and Whips in the mix.
  
  On the bright side, they won't all die if you don't reGorge the moment you respawn. Also, Hydras are strongest when they are about to die anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  If anyone is wondering what PsiWarp is talking about, <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=119846&view=findpost&p=1958779" target="_blank">here is a link to Charlie's comment.</a>
  
  @PsiWarp: Your suggested changes to Hydra sounds like it would promote spam to me, if there were a hive rush, all Skulks could switch to Gorge, drop all the Hydras they could next to the hive and let them build themselves, then switch back to Skulk. Would take around a minute and would drastically improve Kharaan defenses. For a perma-Gorge, it would shift the Hydra into being some sort of slow to place but non-lasting investment; I'm not really sure how that would benefit the Gorge. The 'dieing of old age' bit is especially odd -> nothing else on the Kharaan team does this, plus how do you convey this to a new player? The points you brought up about the Adren and Shifts are even stronger points of issues.

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• botchiball Join Date: 2003-04-24 Member: 15810Members, Constellation

  September 2012

  Updated OP with additional Hydra Topics.

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