I'm fairly satisfied overall. I think in a year's time it'll be a lot of fun to play and there won't be as many frustrating things left.
Some of the things the OP mentions are small issues which might be changed in later builds.
Disappointments for me are the <b>gorge no longer feeling/being essential</b>; the <b>marine hierarchy flattened</b>, no longer feeling like a space marine, more a generic character in an FPS team shooter; and the<b> animations</b> which don't seem to have improved as promised, to my inexpert eye they aren't much different from NS1 animations, sometimes worse.
<!--quoteo(post=1958176:date=Aug 6 2012, 04:46 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Aug 6 2012, 04:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958176"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm fairly satisfied overall. I think in a year's time it'll be a lot of fun to play and there won't be as many frustrating things left.
Some of the things the OP mentions are small issues which might be changed in later builds.
Disappointments for me are the <b>gorge no longer feeling/being essential</b>; the <b>marine hierarchy flattened</b>, no longer feeling like a space marine, more a generic character in an FPS team shooter; and the<b> animations</b> which don't seem to have improved as promised, to my inexpert eye they aren't much different from NS1 animations, sometimes worse.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wish this were true, but what FPS game ever bounces back? They have one shot at release to make an awesome impression. This isnt an MMO after all and even then those flop and never recover. Gone are the days of mass gamer loyalty. (i.e. look at Diablo 3)
You know I am really not likeing the amount of hate that is being thrown at NS2. Yes its buggy and things need improvements but people are being so BITTER and NASTY about the problems you make the game sound like it is the worst thing since the crusades. People are forgetting that there are HUMAN BEINGS at the other end reading your comments who DO have feelings and will feel incredibly hurt by some of these things said. Can people for once have the decency to put things constructive when critisizeing (i know some of you have been constructive and fair so thats not at you). When I was helping college (high school if ur american) students in learning support if i had given feedback in the way some of you have I would of been out of my job before i even started. The game isnt even feature complete for petes sake cut UWE some slack...
Now thats out of the way. Personally I think there are a few things that need sprucing up. Alien Commander is a little bit dull and does need a few more things to do. I know that asymitry is very important and the alien comm is ment to be a gardener but the lack of interaction and ablity to directly give orders falls apart by the fact the commander can mearly use a mic to do so or type it so thus it does become somewhat of an inconveniance. What makes the game most fun is the interaction with other people the isolationism of the commander doesnt help. If direct point click orders is TOO similar perhaps a more intuative way of directing the aliens on the ground could be introduced (of which i cannot think of this moment but with many people on the forum probably can).
Balance is of course VERY much a work in progress and i really think at the moment current balance is being prepared for the exo. If you all very much notice marrines are farely balaned early to mid game and I have seen many games of marrines gaining and holding a foothold right up to the point where the heavier and later game tech aliens/upgrades come out where marrines have VERY little to match which is a niche the will nicely fill. A few tweeks also are desperately needed with reguards to the fade being too damn fast (like the highness of the rent :P ) and esspecially some of the trait combos such as Fade with adren blinking for an eternity (although being able to shoot a blinking fade does somewhat midly counter this but i do have to admit seing a fade completely dissapear was very very cool but hey ho.)
Comparing it to NS1 with the turret factories I do admit they were fun to fight over but, I think ARC's will very much work by 1.0 and I have seen a significant improvement ever since the damage caused to surrounding ARC's if clumped. In my personal opinion the best way to fix the last of the horrendus arc trains is to just significantly improve health and give a mild increse in damage/ROF but SIGNIFICANTLY increse cost + build time (25/30 res?) to make it very high priority single unit (whilst saving a bit of that CPU/server juice from the dreaded trains :P )
I have noticed Aliens win if they get that second hive, marrines win if they prevent it so we just have to wait and see what that exo is gonna do (a build 116 intro i do hope for :P I want something nice to have before my exam results to keep me happy until then :P )
Otherwise NS2 is a very very awesome games KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK :D
<!--quoteo(post=1958184:date=Aug 7 2012, 03:10 AM:name=Angry Hillbilly 2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Angry Hillbilly 2 @ Aug 7 2012, 03:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958184"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know I am really not likeing the amount of hate that is being thrown at NS2. Yes its buggy and things need improvements but people are being so BITTER and NASTY about the problems you make the game sound like it is the worst thing since the crusades. People are forgetting that there are HUMAN BEINGS at the other end reading your comments who DO have feelings and will feel incredibly hurt by some of these things said. Can people for once have the decency to put things constructive when critisizeing (i know some of you have been constructive and fair so thats not at you). When I was helping college (high school if ur american) students in learning support if i had given feedback in the way some of you have I would of been out of my job before i even started. The game isnt even feature complete for petes sake cut UWE some slack...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh god, the 'hurt peoples feelings' arguement again. If you're going to make this thread sound like its the worst thing since the crusades because people are being so 'bitter and nasty', atleast have the decency to back this claim up with quotes. People, including those on the forums have feelings too.
Like it or not at the end of the day UWE is a company, not a human being. (This isn't to discount the individuals who make up the company). There's a very clear difference between talking unfounded, unconstructive smack about developers on a personal level and having honest critical discussion, and even post-mortem about the development of said game - a consumer product.
*edit* If this was going OT, please delete my post instead of locking topic
<!--quoteo(post=1958176:date=Aug 6 2012, 06:46 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Aug 6 2012, 06:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958176"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Disappointments for me are the <b>gorge no longer feeling/being essential</b>; the <b>marine hierarchy flattened</b>, no longer feeling like a space marine, more a generic character in an FPS team shooter<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is exactly what I think. I like most of the changes, but these two issues are still on my mind while playing.
Dude theres a differance between critisizing and giving helpful feedback and being a ###### about it. Be helpful insted of "NS2 SUCKZ COMPARED TO NS1"...
SecurityJoin Date: 2005-01-07Member: 33133Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1958184:date=Aug 6 2012, 07:10 PM:name=Angry Hillbilly 2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Angry Hillbilly 2 @ Aug 6 2012, 07:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958184"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know I am really not likeing the amount of hate that is being thrown at NS2. Yes its buggy and things need improvements but people are being so BITTER and NASTY about the problems you make the game sound like it is the worst thing since the crusades.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think anyone here hates NS2.
People criticize and complain, because they care about the game and would like it to succeed. At least I do.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->People are forgetting that there are HUMAN BEINGS at the other end reading your comments who DO have feelings and will feel incredibly hurt by some of these things said. Can people for once have the decency to put things constructive when critisizeing (i know some of you have been constructive and fair so thats not at you).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can play this game both ways.
How do you think does the community feel, if feedback and criticism (eventhough consistently voiced in large numbers) is completely ignored and falls on deaf ears? <b>It's extremely frustrating.</b>
Its thanks to this community that NS2 is still alive after all.
I think this thread has so far been pretty civil and descriptive with regards to the problems at hand. If anything, you just worsened it with your post. It also bears reiterating that some of us have been around for quite some time (NS2 being in development on the public-side for 3-4 years now), and hence patience may be a lacking a lot more than for players whom only joined but a few months ago (or last week in the case of the TB-crowd).
<!--quoteo(post=1957094:date=Aug 4 2012, 04:19 PM:name=kabab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kabab @ Aug 4 2012, 04:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1957094"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Cause its <b><u>dated</u></b> now....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Two words .... Counter Strike
[Edit] regardless of how "dated" it is it is still one of the best and most enjoyable FPS out there a game being "dated" means nothing if the game play is strong and feels good
<!--quoteo(post=1958175:date=Aug 6 2012, 06:42 PM:name=Uzguz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Uzguz @ Aug 6 2012, 06:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958175"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just to make sure I'm reading that correctly: Is it your opinion that neither intelligence nor dedication should be significant in NS2?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My opinion is that an easy access makes a great game. (See CS) I like complex games. But I'm not in the mainstream with this. Making NS more easy to learn is a step in the right direction.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1958184:date=Aug 6 2012, 06:10 PM:name=Angry Hillbilly 2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Angry Hillbilly 2 @ Aug 6 2012, 06:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958184"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know I am really not likeing the amount of hate that is being thrown at NS2. Yes its buggy and things need improvements but people are being so BITTER and NASTY about the problems you make the game sound like it is the worst thing since the crusades. People are forgetting that there are HUMAN BEINGS at the other end reading your comments who DO have feelings and will feel incredibly hurt by some of these things said. Can people for once have the decency to put things constructive when critisizeing (i know some of you have been constructive and fair so thats not at you). When I was helping college (high school if ur american) students in learning support if i had given feedback in the way some of you have I would of been out of my job before i even started. The game isnt even feature complete for petes sake cut UWE some slack...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Honestly, I think about this every time I make a post criticising the current state of NS2, which is so often that I'm sure a lot of people -- especially the devs -- are sick of me by now. I still have an immense amount of respect for Flayra, and the other UWE guys, who built this entire project from scratch and probably had/have to endure more hardships doing it than I will ever have to subject myself to. That respect is the exact reason why I will continue to voice my opinion on the forums in the, perhaps, vain hope that it will contribute to NS2 becoming a great game, not just a good game.
<!--quoteo(post=1958201:date=Aug 6 2012, 06:04 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Aug 6 2012, 06:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958201"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Honestly, I think about this every time I make a post criticising the current state of NS2, which is so often that I'm sure a lot of people -- especially the devs -- are sick of me by now. I still have an immense amount of respect for Flayra, and the other UWE guys, who built this entire project from scratch and probably had/have to endure more hardships doing it than I will ever have to subject myself to. That respect is the exact reason why I will continue to voice my opinion on the forums in the, perhaps, vain hope that it will contribute to NS2 becoming a great game, not just a good game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I very much second this.
---
But I also absolutely loathe the "They are just people after all" because of the double nature of it. UWE runs a business, we've seen that many times with their hype buildups, optimistic promises, sales pitches and all that. As nasty as it is, they stopped having any 'human shield' when they started selling the game. Any gratitude, kindness and patience they get is a bonus, you don't just get granted all that by being an indie game developer. Even if it's not always the nicest way things could go, it's the only way I can see the world running and it's probably even more of an necessary evil if you expect people to fund your game development over an extended period of time.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited August 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1958191:date=Aug 6 2012, 10:42 AM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Aug 6 2012, 10:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958191"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and hence patience may be a lacking a lot more than for players whom only joined but a few months ago (or last week in the case of the TB-crowd).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> To this attitude and not specifically you, player:
Then leave? I dont get the reason why some of you play ns2 with frowns.. everyday, and yet the thought of just not playing or posting anymore has yet to gain any real momentum with you. <b>Its almost as if you enjoy rolling around in your discontent and smearing it all over the walls for everyone else to smell. </b>
<i>Thats why you get responses like hillbilly's</i>. Your feedback doesn't stop at the helpful level, your discontent seeps through every chance it gets, never missing a moment to explain how you think things are wrong what you think is right.
<i>"Any gratitude, kindness and patience they get is a bonus"</i> Just like any rude, crass, condescending, self righteous attitudes thrown their way,<b> is not required</b> and is not <b>necessary</b> to perform your role as a feedback giving individual. In other words, some of us just think you make these forums a worse place for everyone and we'd rather you just saved it - <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/community" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/community</a> "If you can't say something nice, say nothing at all!"
<!--quoteo(post=1958229:date=Aug 6 2012, 08:26 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Aug 6 2012, 08:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958229"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dont get the reason why some of you play ns2 with frowns.. everyday, and yet the thought of just not playing or posting anymore has yet to gain any real momentum with you. <b>Its almost as if you enjoy rolling around in your discontent and smearing it all over the walls for everyone else to smell. </b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because we're the real fanboys. We play NS, despite our misgivings where other people play NS blissfully (ignorant). We stick around because of our huge respect to Natural Selection and to the team, not because we love being part of some project and want cookies. We come to the forums to try and make the game better, not to *high five* design decisions whether they're good or not. We're here because, in many cases, we've committed a decade of our life to a game and we want the next installation to be just as good or better. We get impatient because we have more emotionally invested in the game and because we've been around long enough to see lessons learned and then discarded.
This might be too much to ask, but I'd love to see a response by one of the "real" devs (i.e. not Hugh) on this topic. This thread sums up the gulf between the development and what I consider the people who really care and understand the game. And I've no idea if this is read by the overlords; and if so: frowned upon or understood? What's the plan: Stick with were NS2 is going, or considering to "dare mighty things" to quote Curiositys motto? Like fana and Tweadle said, I'm certain that most of the harsh critics only mean well - it's the frustration that leads to direct language. We all love you guys, otherwise we would have abandoned this a long time ago.
The only person at UWE I would like to hear from on this topic and address all the points stated is Flayra. No offense to any of the other developers, but it seems Flayra pretty much has designed the game and is the final decision maker and has been the one most vocal in the past about NS1 and NS2 comparisons.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited August 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1958245:date=Aug 6 2012, 01:05 PM:name=Tweadle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweadle @ Aug 6 2012, 01:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958245"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We stick around because of our huge <b>respect </b>to Natural Selection and to the team,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <strike><!--quoteo(post=1958220:date=Aug 6 2012, 11:49 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Aug 6 2012, 11:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958220"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Any gratitude, kindness and patience they get is a bonus,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--></strike> ::scratches head:: You have an interesting definition of the word, "Respect", then if you cannot be bothered to have patience or kindness with them at the same time.. either that or you are attempting to justify your <u>unnecessary </u>behavior under the guise of "respect" (its like saying "i hit you because i love you, honey.")
I'm thinking the latter, considering the insinuating "high five" comment.
If you feel you're truly showing your love to the product with this thread, why dont you stick to providing bullet pointed feedback <u>void of attitude and tone? </u> I am certain we can both agree that anything other than direct, specific and professional feedback is not needed - and if you truly cared about this product <i>you'd also care about it's community,</i> and would refrain from slinging your once again, unneeded and unwelcomed commentary.
Do not confuse proper or helpful feedback to be containing whatever rages, outburts, insults, or negativity you can sling, but instead feedback that is void of these things. You are, afterall, expecting a human being to read feedback on their own work that they slave over. And whether you care about their reaction to your feedback or not is <b>irrelevant </b><i>if you are posting to have an impact on the product you claim to love. </i>I've said it once, but i'll say it again, your feedback is actually more absorbed if you can maintain that emotional restraint.. else you tend to just get ignored for being an irritational person. I know i would do the same.
<!--quoteo(post=1958258:date=Aug 7 2012, 06:36 AM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Aug 7 2012, 06:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958258"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->::scratches head:: You have an interesting definition of the word, "Respect", then if you cannot be bothered to have patience or kindness with them at the same time.. either that or you are attempting to justify your <u>unnecessary </u>behavior under the guise of "respect" (its like saying "i hit you because i love you, honey.")<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well done. You succesfully managed to misrepresent quotes from two different individuals, make them sound like they came from the same person in the same context, and make impossible assumptions about another person's 'kindness' and 'patience'. What's interesting is that on top of all that, they weren't even contradictory in the slightest.
To the rest of your post? <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In other words, some of us just think you make these forums a worse place for everyone and we'd rather you just saved it - <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/community" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/community</a> "If you can't say something nice, say nothing at all!"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What happened to that standard?
What have I slung at whom? I said why I stick around and suddenly i'm behaving badly? Seriously, come off it. I spend the vast majority of my time constructing posts which I, at least, believe to be valuable and it's not like I go around calling everyone an idiot. In fact, you're literally the only person on these forums who I have a problem with because you're a dangerously 'eloquent' and self-righteous pt who liberally uses italic, bold and underline to support what I believe to be broken logic. Yet again, you belittle the genuine feedback in a thread (even if it is with the process rather than the game) and patronisingly suggest that we provide points without emotion - emotion is exactly what keeps me here. Just because I don't litter every post with random formatting, doesn't mean I don't have things to say. You've developed your own ridiculous way of making a point and I've developed mine.
Anyway, I hate getting sidetracked by your incessant jabs and I wish you would just let emotion run its course when it does - it is a feedback of its own. This is a NS1 -> NS2 thread after all and we're all commenting on our experiences between the two and where and why things might have gone awry. Don't presume to know what kind of respect we have, <b>definitely</b> don't accuse us of not being patient (wow) and don't deign to lord your definition of good feedback over us either. To be quite honest, this is a general discussion forum and I don't see where it says we can't discuss things between eachother.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited August 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1958265:date=Aug 6 2012, 01:52 PM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Aug 6 2012, 01:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958265"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well done. You succesfully managed to misrepresent quotes from two different individuals,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh i thought Tweadle was answering for all of you in this boat? So he misrepresented himself when he said "Because <u>we're </u>the real fanboys." " despite <u>our </u>misgivings " "<u>We</u> stick around"?? <i>Ok glad we covered that</i>, thanks for the clear up, i'll strike out that quote now.
@tweadle: I have NOT belittled any genuine feedback, point me to it if so!! I have merely supported people like hillbilly's viewpoint on HOW you give feedback.. if you still haven't gotten that point after all my bold and italic use, then its best that you just give up interacting or responding to me on these forums. Oh and its not my definition of good feedback, as theres a reason why admins snip posts and leave "i need to learn to be more nice" so often.. because that behavior should not "run its course", its not conducive to discussions, hence THIS interaction now.
<!--quoteo(post=1958229:date=Aug 6 2012, 07:26 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Aug 6 2012, 07:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958229"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then leave? I dont get the reason why some of you play ns2 with frowns.. everyday, and yet the thought of just not playing or posting anymore has yet to gain any real momentum with you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh but I have (multiple times actually), and had vowed not to post or re-asses this game until it has had a chance to reach v1.0. This thread lured me out again I guess.
Also, <!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and would refrain from slinging your once again, unneeded and unwelcomed commentary.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Whether a person's comment is unneeded, unwelcomed or otherwise unkind is not your call to make. You really need to get off that high horse, for some reason you've got it in your head that you're the embodiment of the ns-community, but you really are not.
Moreover, speaking of being unkind, there are indeed many ways to be unkind. A direct insult is but one, another would be to flat-out disregard a 10-page topic filled to the brink with valid points, and instead respond to some random story about encountering one of the Brians in a gift-shop. This isn't ment to bash said topic, but the priorities of developers when it comes to responding on the forum is truly mind-boggling at times, bordering on the insulting.
I guess I'll say the same Tweadle did: if my post is screwing with this thread's chances of remaining open, please delete\censor\whatever it, but don't brick the entire thread (which moderators are sometimes a bit too quick in doing around here).
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited August 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1958276:date=Aug 6 2012, 02:03 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Aug 6 2012, 02:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958276"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Whether a person's comment is unneeded, unwelcomed or otherwise unkind is not your call to make. You really need to get off that high horse, for some reason you've got it in your head that you're the embodiment of the ns-community, but you really are not.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No no.. trust me, i embody nothing and represent nobody but my own, dont read into it. I just present my own opinion on the matter by saying that yes, there are those out there like hillbilly and myself who find that to be SO unwelcoming for a community. This doesnt make us lords of anything,<b> its our opinion </b>just like you have your own.
I've said what i had to say,<b> continue on with whatever this thread is.</b> My answer to the topic: I cant answer until 1.0
Some of you should gather all the most interesting points of feedback in this thread and not just yours, without the anger, hate, and emotion, then put them in your next post for a Dev to read and respond. A dev who doesn't respond to bad attitudes is a smart dev.
ArgathorJoin Date: 2011-07-18Member: 110942Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1958286:date=Aug 6 2012, 10:12 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Aug 6 2012, 10:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958286"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No no.. trust me, i embody nothing and represent nobody but my own, dont read into it. I just present my own opinion on the matter...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It is fanboys like you that damage the discussions on the forum because you have an over glorified view of yourself, your opinion and your own importance.
I had to stop using the forum because half the time I posted I got childish drama queen messages in forum PM and on steam from playtesters. Do the community a favour and follow your own advice...
<b>Back to the topic...</b>
I am satisfied that UWE are vaguely close to the right gameplay and that they will get there eventually sometime after v1.0!
My only real concern is that I seriously doubt they will ever get performance to an acceptable level (for most of the world), making a game with niche gameplay (FPS/RTS) even more niche, which would be a terrible shame.
<!--quoteo(post=1958287:date=Aug 6 2012, 09:13 PM:name=CobraCommander)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CobraCommander @ Aug 6 2012, 09:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958287"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Some of you should gather all the most interesting points of feedback in this thread and not just yours, without the anger, hate, and emotion, then put them in your next post for a Dev to read and respond. A dev who doesn't respond to bad attitudes is a smart dev.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It has been done many many many many times. Before implementation, after release of said implementation, and after it has ruined game play.
Cobra, no offense, but unless you know what im talking about when i say "taser", you might not understand where we "Fan Boys" are coming from. Don't insult us because we are passionate about the game and tired of good feedback being ignored or disregarded. We are only looking for validation for said ideas and maybe a reason why it doesn't jive in the grand scheme of things. Too much to ask?
performance indeed huge issue, not sure if serious but they're hinting at they want this game to an "esport". i have strong doubts on this 1.0 engine improvements so its a toss up. although its hard not to judge them based on earlier builds...
I've said in my earlier post, no matter what happens with gameplay design, if the engine can be solid ground, the game might have hope. So at least we can change all these dead end ideas. If things hit the fan, charlie might remember ns1 again.
Comments
Some of the things the OP mentions are small issues which might be changed in later builds.
Disappointments for me are the <b>gorge no longer feeling/being essential</b>; the <b>marine hierarchy flattened</b>, no longer feeling like a space marine, more a generic character in an FPS team shooter; and the<b> animations</b> which don't seem to have improved as promised, to my inexpert eye they aren't much different from NS1 animations, sometimes worse.
Some of the things the OP mentions are small issues which might be changed in later builds.
Disappointments for me are the <b>gorge no longer feeling/being essential</b>; the <b>marine hierarchy flattened</b>, no longer feeling like a space marine, more a generic character in an FPS team shooter; and the<b> animations</b> which don't seem to have improved as promised, to my inexpert eye they aren't much different from NS1 animations, sometimes worse.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wish this were true, but what FPS game ever bounces back? They have one shot at release to make an awesome impression. This isnt an MMO after all and even then those flop and never recover. Gone are the days of mass gamer loyalty. (i.e. look at Diablo 3)
Now thats out of the way. Personally I think there are a few things that need sprucing up. Alien Commander is a little bit dull and does need a few more things to do. I know that asymitry is very important and the alien comm is ment to be a gardener but the lack of interaction and ablity to directly give orders falls apart by the fact the commander can mearly use a mic to do so or type it so thus it does become somewhat of an inconveniance. What makes the game most fun is the interaction with other people the isolationism of the commander doesnt help. If direct point click orders is TOO similar perhaps a more intuative way of directing the aliens on the ground could be introduced (of which i cannot think of this moment but with many people on the forum probably can).
Balance is of course VERY much a work in progress and i really think at the moment current balance is being prepared for the exo. If you all very much notice marrines are farely balaned early to mid game and I have seen many games of marrines gaining and holding a foothold right up to the point where the heavier and later game tech aliens/upgrades come out where marrines have VERY little to match which is a niche the will nicely fill. A few tweeks also are desperately needed with reguards to the fade being too damn fast (like the highness of the rent :P ) and esspecially some of the trait combos such as Fade with adren blinking for an eternity (although being able to shoot a blinking fade does somewhat midly counter this but i do have to admit seing a fade completely dissapear was very very cool but hey ho.)
Comparing it to NS1 with the turret factories I do admit they were fun to fight over but, I think ARC's will very much work by 1.0 and I have seen a significant improvement ever since the damage caused to surrounding ARC's if clumped. In my personal opinion the best way to fix the last of the horrendus arc trains is to just significantly improve health and give a mild increse in damage/ROF but SIGNIFICANTLY increse cost + build time (25/30 res?) to make it very high priority single unit (whilst saving a bit of that CPU/server juice from the dreaded trains :P )
I have noticed Aliens win if they get that second hive, marrines win if they prevent it so we just have to wait and see what that exo is gonna do (a build 116 intro i do hope for :P I want something nice to have before my exam results to keep me happy until then :P )
Otherwise NS2 is a very very awesome games KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK :D
Oh god, the 'hurt peoples feelings' arguement again. If you're going to make this thread sound like its the worst thing since the crusades because people are being so 'bitter and nasty', atleast have the decency to back this claim up with quotes. People, including those on the forums have feelings too.
Like it or not at the end of the day UWE is a company, not a human being. (This isn't to discount the individuals who make up the company). There's a very clear difference between talking unfounded, unconstructive smack about developers on a personal level and having honest critical discussion, and even post-mortem about the development of said game - a consumer product.
*edit* If this was going OT, please delete my post instead of locking topic
This is exactly what I think. I like most of the changes, but these two issues are still on my mind while playing.
Dude theres a differance between critisizing and giving helpful feedback and being a ###### about it. Be helpful insted of "NS2 SUCKZ COMPARED TO NS1"...
Yes its buggy and things need improvements but people are being so BITTER and NASTY about the problems you make the game sound like it is the worst thing since the crusades.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think anyone here hates NS2.
People criticize and complain, because they care about the game and would like it to succeed. At least I do.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->People are forgetting that there are HUMAN BEINGS at the other end reading your comments who DO have feelings and will feel incredibly hurt by some of these things said. Can people for once have the decency to put things constructive when critisizeing (i know some of you have been constructive and fair so thats not at you).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can play this game both ways.
How do you think does the community feel, if feedback and criticism (eventhough consistently voiced in large numbers) is completely ignored and falls on deaf ears?
<b>It's extremely frustrating.</b>
Its thanks to this community that NS2 is still alive after all.
I think this thread has so far been pretty civil and descriptive with regards to the problems at hand. If anything, you just worsened it with your post. It also bears reiterating that some of us have been around for quite some time (NS2 being in development on the public-side for 3-4 years now), and hence patience may be a lacking a lot more than for players whom only joined but a few months ago (or last week in the case of the TB-crowd).
Two words .... Counter Strike
[Edit] regardless of how "dated" it is it is still one of the best and most enjoyable FPS out there a game being "dated" means nothing if the game play is strong and feels good
My opinion is that an easy access makes a great game. (See CS) I like complex games. But I'm not in the mainstream with this. Making NS more easy to learn is a step in the right direction.
Honestly, I think about this every time I make a post criticising the current state of NS2, which is so often that I'm sure a lot of people -- especially the devs -- are sick of me by now. I still have an immense amount of respect for Flayra, and the other UWE guys, who built this entire project from scratch and probably had/have to endure more hardships doing it than I will ever have to subject myself to. That respect is the exact reason why I will continue to voice my opinion on the forums in the, perhaps, vain hope that it will contribute to NS2 becoming a great game, not just a good game.
I very much second this.
---
But I also absolutely loathe the "They are just people after all" because of the double nature of it. UWE runs a business, we've seen that many times with their hype buildups, optimistic promises, sales pitches and all that. As nasty as it is, they stopped having any 'human shield' when they started selling the game. Any gratitude, kindness and patience they get is a bonus, you don't just get granted all that by being an indie game developer. Even if it's not always the nicest way things could go, it's the only way I can see the world running and it's probably even more of an necessary evil if you expect people to fund your game development over an extended period of time.
To this attitude and not specifically you, player:
Then leave?
I dont get the reason why some of you play ns2 with frowns.. everyday, and yet the thought of just not playing or posting anymore has yet to gain any real momentum with you.
<b>Its almost as if you enjoy rolling around in your discontent and smearing it all over the walls for everyone else to smell. </b>
<i>Thats why you get responses like hillbilly's</i>. Your feedback doesn't stop at the helpful level, your discontent seeps through every chance it gets, never missing a moment to explain how you think things are wrong what you think is right.
<i>"Any gratitude, kindness and patience they get is a bonus"</i>
Just like any rude, crass, condescending, self righteous attitudes thrown their way,<b> is not required</b> and is not <b>necessary</b> to perform your role as a feedback giving individual.
In other words, some of us just think you make these forums a worse place for everyone and we'd rather you just saved it -
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/community" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/community</a>
"If you can't say something nice, say nothing at all!"
<b>Its almost as if you enjoy rolling around in your discontent and smearing it all over the walls for everyone else to smell. </b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because we're the real fanboys. We play NS, despite our misgivings where other people play NS blissfully (ignorant). We stick around because of our huge respect to Natural Selection and to the team, not because we love being part of some project and want cookies. We come to the forums to try and make the game better, not to *high five* design decisions whether they're good or not. We're here because, in many cases, we've committed a decade of our life to a game and we want the next installation to be just as good or better. We get impatient because we have more emotionally invested in the game and because we've been around long enough to see lessons learned and then discarded.
Like fana and Tweadle said, I'm certain that most of the harsh critics only mean well - it's the frustration that leads to direct language. We all love you guys, otherwise we would have abandoned this a long time ago.
<strike><!--quoteo(post=1958220:date=Aug 6 2012, 11:49 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Aug 6 2012, 11:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958220"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Any gratitude, kindness and patience they get is a bonus,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--></strike>
::scratches head::
You have an interesting definition of the word, "Respect", then if you cannot be bothered to have patience or kindness with them at the same time.. either that or you are attempting to justify your <u>unnecessary </u>behavior under the guise of "respect" (its like saying "i hit you because i love you, honey.")
I'm thinking the latter, considering the insinuating "high five" comment.
If you feel you're truly showing your love to the product with this thread, why dont you stick to providing bullet pointed feedback <u>void of attitude and tone? </u>
I am certain we can both agree that anything other than direct, specific and professional feedback is not needed - and if you truly cared about this product <i>you'd also care about it's community,</i> and would refrain from slinging your once again, unneeded and unwelcomed commentary.
Do not confuse proper or helpful feedback to be containing whatever rages, outburts, insults, or negativity you can sling, but instead feedback that is void of these things. You are, afterall, expecting a human being to read feedback on their own work that they slave over. And whether you care about their reaction to your feedback or not is <b>irrelevant </b><i>if you are posting to have an impact on the product you claim to love. </i>I've said it once, but i'll say it again, your feedback is actually more absorbed if you can maintain that emotional restraint.. else you tend to just get ignored for being an irritational person. I know i would do the same.
You have an interesting definition of the word, "Respect", then if you cannot be bothered to have patience or kindness with them at the same time.. either that or you are attempting to justify your <u>unnecessary </u>behavior under the guise of "respect" (its like saying "i hit you because i love you, honey.")<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well done. You succesfully managed to misrepresent quotes from two different individuals, make them sound like they came from the same person in the same context, and make impossible assumptions about another person's 'kindness' and 'patience'. What's interesting is that on top of all that, they weren't even contradictory in the slightest.
To the rest of your post?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In other words, some of us just think you make these forums a worse place for everyone and we'd rather you just saved it -
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/community" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/community</a>
"If you can't say something nice, say nothing at all!"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What happened to that standard?
Anyway, I hate getting sidetracked by your incessant jabs and I wish you would just let emotion run its course when it does - it is a feedback of its own. This is a NS1 -> NS2 thread after all and we're all commenting on our experiences between the two and where and why things might have gone awry. Don't presume to know what kind of respect we have, <b>definitely</b> don't accuse us of not being patient (wow) and don't deign to lord your definition of good feedback over us either. To be quite honest, this is a general discussion forum and I don't see where it says we can't discuss things between eachother.
Oh i thought Tweadle was answering for all of you in this boat?
So he misrepresented himself when he said "Because <u>we're </u>the real fanboys." " despite <u>our </u>misgivings " "<u>We</u> stick around"??
<i>Ok glad we covered that</i>, thanks for the clear up, i'll strike out that quote now.
@tweadle:
I have NOT belittled any genuine feedback, point me to it if so!!
I have merely supported people like hillbilly's viewpoint on HOW you give feedback.. if you still haven't gotten that point after all my bold and italic use, then its best that you just give up interacting or responding to me on these forums. Oh and its not my definition of good feedback, as theres a reason why admins snip posts and leave "i need to learn to be more nice" so often.. because that behavior should not "run its course", its not conducive to discussions, hence THIS interaction now.
I dont get the reason why some of you play ns2 with frowns.. everyday, and yet the thought of just not playing or posting anymore has yet to gain any real momentum with you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh but I have (multiple times actually), and had vowed not to post or re-asses this game until it has had a chance to reach v1.0. This thread lured me out again I guess.
Also,
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and would refrain from slinging your once again, unneeded and unwelcomed commentary.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whether a person's comment is unneeded, unwelcomed or otherwise unkind is not your call to make. You really need to get off that high horse, for some reason you've got it in your head that you're the embodiment of the ns-community, but you really are not.
Moreover, speaking of being unkind, there are indeed many ways to be unkind. A direct insult is but one, another would be to flat-out disregard a 10-page topic filled to the brink with valid points, and instead respond to some random story about encountering one of the Brians in a gift-shop. This isn't ment to bash said topic, but the priorities of developers when it comes to responding on the forum is truly mind-boggling at times, bordering on the insulting.
I guess I'll say the same Tweadle did: if my post is screwing with this thread's chances of remaining open, please delete\censor\whatever it, but don't brick the entire thread (which moderators are sometimes a bit too quick in doing around here).
No no.. trust me, i embody nothing and represent nobody but my own, dont read into it.
I just present my own opinion on the matter by saying that yes, there are those out there like hillbilly and myself who find that to be SO unwelcoming for a community. This doesnt make us lords of anything,<b> its our opinion </b>just like you have your own.
I've said what i had to say,<b> continue on with whatever this thread is.</b>
My answer to the topic: I cant answer until 1.0
They're fanatics, what are you gonna do?
Some of you should gather all the most interesting points of feedback in this thread and not just yours, without the anger, hate, and emotion, then put them in your next post for a Dev to read and respond. A dev who doesn't respond to bad attitudes is a smart dev.
I just present my own opinion on the matter...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is fanboys like you that damage the discussions on the forum because you have an over glorified view of yourself, your opinion and your own importance.
I had to stop using the forum because half the time I posted I got childish drama queen messages in forum PM and on steam from playtesters. Do the community a favour and follow your own advice...
<b>Back to the topic...</b>
I am satisfied that UWE are vaguely close to the right gameplay and that they will get there eventually sometime after v1.0!
My only real concern is that I seriously doubt they will ever get performance to an acceptable level (for most of the world), making a game with niche gameplay (FPS/RTS) even more niche, which would be a terrible shame.
It has been done many many many many times. Before implementation, after release of said implementation, and after it has ruined game play.
Cobra, no offense, but unless you know what im talking about when i say "taser", you might not understand where we "Fan Boys" are coming from. Don't insult us because we are passionate about the game and tired of good feedback being ignored or disregarded. We are only looking for validation for said ideas and maybe a reason why it doesn't jive in the grand scheme of things. Too much to ask?
I've said in my earlier post, no matter what happens with gameplay design, if the engine can be solid ground, the game might have hope. So at least we can change all these dead end ideas. If things hit the fan, charlie might remember ns1 again.