Marine weapons and Durability
Fartbake
Join Date: 2012-08-02 Member: 154615Members
Join Date: 2012-08-02 Member: 154615Members
<div class="IPBDescription">my thoughts</div>I've had 2 different experiences regarding this but I think I can quite easily say that Marine Weapons overall seem a bit too weak.
the Assault Rifle seems ok early game but as soon as the other evolutions come out to play most weapons seem to be all pee shooters.
in the many games I've played I've found you could get one Phase Shifter (cant remember their names xD) into a marine base and he can effectively spawn camp because the marines fresh from the spawn point simply do NOT have the fire power to take care of it. I'm fairly sure there where about 4 of us shooting at 1 of them clip after clip after clip and nothing seemed to stop it.
then you get the flyers, they are supposed to be squishy but hard to hit.... well 2 close range shotgun shells seem to do nothing along with 30+ AR rounds.
the grenade launcher seems nice. but hard to hit with, but that all comes with the skill required to use it.
the flamethrower.... not too sure on what to make of it. frankly it seems to do little damage but it sure seems to scare the hell out of just about anyone that came close to me xD
oh while on the subject of weapons. why can you melee with an assault rifle ant NOT with any other weapon?
I think you get the idea of the gist of my concerns in that department.
Marine Durability. I know the Aliens are supposed to be heavy hitters, i mean many of them are melee only so the SHOULD do some hefty damage. but, since marines lack any general mobility (other than sprint... which you can still easy be outrun by anything) if any of the aliens get up close to you, and you dont have a teammate with a quick trigger finger... your as good as dead. Marines cant back pedal, so they are stuck with walking backwards which doesnt help the matter. I'm curious on weather you guys have thought of giving the marines the ability to dive roll or something? and your outlook on that?
most if not all of the mechs seem to have a distinct lack of... being able to fire. the sentries dont seem all that effective either from what I have seen.
my last point is customisation. yes you can give the marines new weapons, but there are no Armor suits or something to give them. I'm curious if you have thought of giving like different armor sets to the marines to give them more flexibility? for example a heavy armor set that not only makes you more durable but also renders you immune/more resistant to the poison clouds?
regardless. so far I have rather enjoyed the game so far. when you have a team that talks to each other you really do get a sense of teamwork on a level that really isnt given in most games.
crashes and imbalances aside I know beta is beta and all we can do is show our concerns and ideas to help make an improved game =)
again, rather enjoyed it so far, looking forward to the next game!
the Assault Rifle seems ok early game but as soon as the other evolutions come out to play most weapons seem to be all pee shooters.
in the many games I've played I've found you could get one Phase Shifter (cant remember their names xD) into a marine base and he can effectively spawn camp because the marines fresh from the spawn point simply do NOT have the fire power to take care of it. I'm fairly sure there where about 4 of us shooting at 1 of them clip after clip after clip and nothing seemed to stop it.
then you get the flyers, they are supposed to be squishy but hard to hit.... well 2 close range shotgun shells seem to do nothing along with 30+ AR rounds.
the grenade launcher seems nice. but hard to hit with, but that all comes with the skill required to use it.
the flamethrower.... not too sure on what to make of it. frankly it seems to do little damage but it sure seems to scare the hell out of just about anyone that came close to me xD
oh while on the subject of weapons. why can you melee with an assault rifle ant NOT with any other weapon?
I think you get the idea of the gist of my concerns in that department.
Marine Durability. I know the Aliens are supposed to be heavy hitters, i mean many of them are melee only so the SHOULD do some hefty damage. but, since marines lack any general mobility (other than sprint... which you can still easy be outrun by anything) if any of the aliens get up close to you, and you dont have a teammate with a quick trigger finger... your as good as dead. Marines cant back pedal, so they are stuck with walking backwards which doesnt help the matter. I'm curious on weather you guys have thought of giving the marines the ability to dive roll or something? and your outlook on that?
most if not all of the mechs seem to have a distinct lack of... being able to fire. the sentries dont seem all that effective either from what I have seen.
my last point is customisation. yes you can give the marines new weapons, but there are no Armor suits or something to give them. I'm curious if you have thought of giving like different armor sets to the marines to give them more flexibility? for example a heavy armor set that not only makes you more durable but also renders you immune/more resistant to the poison clouds?
regardless. so far I have rather enjoyed the game so far. when you have a team that talks to each other you really do get a sense of teamwork on a level that really isnt given in most games.
crashes and imbalances aside I know beta is beta and all we can do is show our concerns and ideas to help make an improved game =)
again, rather enjoyed it so far, looking forward to the next game!
Comments
jetpacks allow you to dodge more easily late-game. exosuits (heavy armor) is being playtested internally and should be public sometime soon.
you can also use a welder to repair each others armor (rule of thumb: 1 point of armor = 2 points of health, it depends on the attack-type though). sentries get buffed whenever marines are nearby.
as for the weapons, remember that they are ranged. this means you can focus fire much more easily than the aliens can. same goes for covering each other, since there is no friendly fire at all. i guess you are rather new to the game (that blinking alien is called fade btw) so i suggest you take yourself some more time to gather experience before judging the current balance. also, keep in mind that some of your opponents might be playing since earlier stages of the game, having 500-1000 hours of experience. that gap should close soon enough though.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->then you get the flyers, they are supposed to be squishy but hard to hit.... well 2 close range shotgun shells seem to do nothing along with 30+ AR rounds.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
w0, w1, w2, w3 refer to various weapon upgrades on the marines from the arms lab.
1 armor point takes 2 normal damage to kill.
Lerks with carapace have 75 armor and 125 hp. Against normal damage (shotgun and lmg) this is an effective health of 275 (75x2 + 125). A rifle at w 0 does 10 damage per bullet. It takes 28 LMG bullets to kill a carapace lerk at w0. At w3, this is 22 bullets. A shotgun at w0 fires 10 pellets at 17 damage per pellet for a total of 170 damage. This is 10x22.1 = 221 damage at w3. Two full shotgun shots at point blank will always kill a lerk at any point in the game. One point blank shotgun shot will never kill a lerk. Shotguns have significant spread. Unless you are literally point blank, and sometimes even then, you will miss pellets on lerks and skulks.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->my last point is customisation. yes you can give the marines new weapons, but there are no Armor suits or something to give them. I'm curious if you have thought of giving like different armor sets to the marines to give them more flexibility? for example a heavy armor set that not only makes you more durable but also renders you immune/more resistant to the poison clouds?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A Mech driven unit is slated for next patch I believe. It is called the exosuit and can have 0, 1, or 2 miniguns. It is very slow, immune to gas/poison effects, and has 200 or 300 armor. It cannot use phase gates.
:Dd
I still find it annoying and frustrating that a Lurk can effectively spawn camp 3+ marines. he'll just stand infront of the spawner swinging and as soon as you spawn your practically dead. while it is possible to focus fire. many of the aliens are played by people that simply spazz out at the controls so they are basically impossible to shoot anyway xD
as for my name mix up, I play alot of Killing Floor and frankly the Lurk has dubbed its nickname of the Stalker because its ability to phase xD
glad to know that there are some more armor thats going to be implemented, almost sounds like a Max unit from Planetside =o
has hand grenades been considered? many times I've wished I had one to lob into vents and the like.
while I am new to the game these are mainly first impression observations. I think ive already played around 6 hours or so, I know thats hardly enough time to really understand the mechanics of it all. the game really seems to focus on the notion that you need 2 marines to 1 alien, you can 1v1 some of them but if anyone with a reasonable amount of skill is at the controls he can easily wipe out 5+ marines in seconds. now that isnt necessarily a bad thing. but it means that whoever is on the marine team REALLY needs to work as a unit and not a COD style of gameplay and most public games wont have those kind of players that work together. (which I am ALL in for as far as teamwork goes... not enough games need a sense of cohesion to play well)
It's not that fades are too powerful or that the guns are too weak, its mostly that the game is in a state currently where aiming is hard because of the lag and framerate, and the marines are supposed to require coordinated teamwork. If they were any more powerful they would chomp through aliens. They already dominate when in a group
I admit some games the weapons feel weak, but this is usually a result of the commander not getting the weapon upgrades early enough. You should already be at weapons 2 or 3 (and armor 1 or 2) by the time they get fades.
I can understand a problem with spawn camping, but usually if your commander is compotent he will either
a) have infantry portals up at his second base
b) use a distress beacon
and the spawn campers will either get destroyed or run out of targets. Phase gates help to mitigate this too. If worse comes to worst, the commander can always drop shotguns and nano armor on people as they spawn, or place mines at the spawn
if only that happens xD
but I do see your point
I do have to say when the team is working together, you REALLY get a sense that your a part of something greater, you really dont get that in many other games, UnknownWorlds have definitely done a great job there =D
I think my new mantra is: fixing hitreg will solve all problems.
Because seriously, I know I can track targets due to playing NS1. How are my bites and shots not landing....
Secondly, marine's vulnerability by themselves is literally the entire point of the race, they need to stay together to be viable, a stupid dive or roll would simply break the game.
Thirdly, there is a heavy armor suit that is coming, and it also makes you immune to poison clouds, this was a major staple of marine gameplay in NS1 and is retuning in NS2, it is called the Exo-Skeleton and it is buyable at the prototype lab, however it is greyed out as the suit is not implemented yet.
the thing that the Marine team as a whole need IS teamwork. they NEED to work together, they NEED to travel in at least 2 man squads and most of all they NEED to communicate.
as a long time follower of the Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six series (though the more recent ones have been rather disappointing T_T not why I am here so moving on) I am all in for coordination and teamwork in a game. and NS2, when played with people with a similar outlook the marines are A LOT of fun to play, when you get those games where you have a competent commander, squamates that talk and back you up working as a unit instead of Lone Wolves... I've havent had so much fun in a MP game like this in sometime so BIG kudos to you guys.
also he VOIP is REALLY good quality which is also rare.
going back to the topic at hand.
having played more I've been able to understand the mechanics better. the only thing I could suggest at this time would be some more options in terms of gear, armor and weapons (which is all being thought of and soon to be implemented)
The moral of the story is, you should yell at your commander to get upgrades at 3 minutes, 6 minutes and 9 minutes if he hasn't already.