It seems to me that the big issue that people are having with power nodes, is that they are too much of a necessity for the frontiersman team. Seeing as "zerging" the main power node is so common in games, now it is becoming kinda silly.
So here are some solutions/additions to make them more dynamic-
#1 making power packs a basic structure.... ShaZam! Now you can easily have 1 IP powered up at all times from the start of the game. (solving the problem most people have with power nodes) It also adds even more dynamics to the game with extra builds from the start of the game.
and some additions to the mix...
#1 drifter clog- this allows drifters to "clog" power nodes that are on infestation (making them de-power), this will allow the commander to darken infested zones and give drifters additional use.
#2 infestation clog- same idea, just make it a building that requires infestation.
notes-
-don't just let drifters "clog" any broken powernodes, I fear this will slow overall game pace. I think that letting them "clog" only un-socked powernodes would be a better idea.
"power-clog" health should be low- something like (100hp 50armor) so that an attacking player can quickly kill it when attempting a base rush/push
Remember in many games, you often add some entities (buttons, blocks, ...) that you can use, weld, or destroy and that would trigger some events on the map, like a door opening, something exploding, or whatever.
Power nodes are like that, but obligatory and all over the map.
<!--quoteo(post=1956734:date=Aug 4 2012, 02:19 AM:name=Ryne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ryne @ Aug 4 2012, 02:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1956734"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My idea I posted awhile ago is to relegate power nodes to only lights. It keeps the "Coolness" factor and drops the problematic game mechanics.
If you did this, they'd need to be a lot more fragile. Also, I would get rid of emergency lights as well, make the dark meaningful.
I would also consider having turrets powered by nodes, but nothing else.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
^ this. Because the only really good thing about the power nodes is the dramatic effect when the lights go out, imo.
<!--quoteo(post=1956734:date=Aug 3 2012, 07:19 PM:name=Ryne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ryne @ Aug 3 2012, 07:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1956734"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My idea I posted awhile ago is to relegate power nodes to only lights. It keeps the "Coolness" factor and drops the problematic game mechanics.
If you did this, they'd need to be a lot more fragile. Also, I would get rid of emergency lights as well, make the dark meaningful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
Best post in the entire thread, sadly nobody discussed it.
Additional ideas:
1.)At the beginning there should be emergency lighting in everyroom = neutral conditions, no significant advantage for any side 2.)Power node is build in a room -> "normal" lighting kicks in = conditions favoring marines, it's easier to spot aliens 3.)Power node is destroyed -> Emergency lights for 10 seconds -> Complete darkness (like its now immediatly after a power node is destroyed) -> marines HAVE to use flashlights to see anything = conditions favoring aliens for obvious reasons.
Lighting as a viable gameplay mechanic seperated from buildings/power. Thats the way to go.
EDIT: In addition it would add alot of atmosphere, just imagine the glowing hive / cysts in a dark room. Also Marines slowly moving forward in a dark room with their flashlights on, shocked by any skulk that popps out of the darkest corner. Thats how i would like to experince NS2.
it wouldn't be nearly as bad if power packs worked in a radius like they use to. It's really rather ridiculous that you pay 15 res to power only one structure.
Power nodes and infestation add complexity but they remove depth and make the game more static and stale.
Scrap 'em and repurpose the _effects_, so that that infestation spreads from structures and lights become brighter and cooler in presence of marine structures, dimmer and redder in presence of alien structures.
Infestation and power has been tweaked since forever, but at best they have become only slightly less detrimental.
1.)At the beginning there should be emergency lighting in everyroom = neutral conditions, no significant advantage for any side 2.)Power node is build in a room -> "normal" lighting kicks in = conditions favoring marines, it's easier to spot aliens 3.)Power node is destroyed -> Emergency lights for 10 seconds -> Complete darkness (like its now immediatly after a power node is destroyed) -> marines HAVE to use flashlights to see anything = conditions favoring aliens for obvious reasons.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Personally I'd say state 3 is a very bad thing. Complete darkness except for flashlights make navigation extremely cumbersome and a severe disadvatnage for Marines to maneuver, navigate, and get down hostiles. Too big of an advantage imo. Already emergency-only lights favors Aliens quite a bit.
I'd say move emergency red lights to state 3 (destroyed) and make a new state with some, but not all lights on for state 1. So you still have the main lights for navigation, basic threat assessment, but putting in the powernode will allow much better visibility. Would require some hacking around, but I feel a better middle-ground.
I am though very interested in how things could work with power nodes only being light related and not building related. More flexibility for hazardous building drops for Marines bringing back their early-game flexibility in NS1.
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
<!--quoteo(post=1958767:date=Aug 8 2012, 10:21 AM:name=Firepower01)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Firepower01 @ Aug 8 2012, 10:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958767"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just make it so command stations provide power, problem solved.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What about rooms without techpoints where you can't place command stations? thats a lot of unpowered areas...
<!--quoteo(post=1958816:date=Aug 7 2012, 10:07 PM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (schkorpio @ Aug 7 2012, 10:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958816"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What about rooms without techpoints where you can't place command stations? thats a lot of unpowered areas...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Personally I like the power node system, it adds some depth. That said some defensive abilty for it would be nice- say a com can select one and electrify it (on a reasonable CD)making is less vunerable to skulk rushes.
<!--quoteo(post=1956824:date=Aug 4 2012, 06:42 AM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Aug 4 2012, 06:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1956824"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am going to put in my 2c.
Power nodes are probably one of the best additions to this game, they add an entire layer of strategy and depth to defending/attacking a room, and are one of the high points of NS2<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly how i feel as well. Except the bugs there still are (unpowered structures even though the room is powered f.e.), i've really come to like the mechanic. When i started playing the beta more (4-5 months ago) i thought they were a big problem, and couldn't be balanced (they were a real pain that time :D). But now i feel they're almost fine in terms of balance.
<!--quoteo(post=1959013:date=Aug 8 2012, 09:54 AM:name=Vaelkyri)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vaelkyri @ Aug 8 2012, 09:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959013"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Personally I like the power node system, it adds some depth. That said some defensive abilty for it would be nice- say a com can select one and electrify it (on a reasonable CD)making is less vunerable to skulk rushes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The commander can use nano shield to protect a power point.
1.)At the beginning there should be emergency lighting in everyroom = neutral conditions, no significant advantage for any side 2.)Power node is build in a room -> "normal" lighting kicks in = conditions favoring marines, it's easier to spot aliens 3.)Power node is destroyed -> Emergency lights for 10 seconds -> Complete darkness (like its now immediatly after a power node is destroyed) -> marines HAVE to use flashlights to see anything = conditions favoring aliens for obvious reasons.
Lighting as a viable gameplay mechanic seperated from buildings/power. Thats the way to go.
EDIT: In addition it would add alot of atmosphere, just imagine the glowing hive / cysts in a dark room. Also Marines slowly moving forward in a dark room with their flashlights on, shocked by any skulk that popps out of the darkest corner. Thats how i would like to experince NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with this.
Marines should push out into the darkness of the unknown from base.
Marine owned territory should be obvious: The lights are on. Alien owned territory should be obvious: The lights are out.
<!--quoteo(post=1959129:date=Aug 8 2012, 05:45 AM:name=Casus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Casus @ Aug 8 2012, 05:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959129"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree with this.
Marines should push out into the darkness of the unknown from base.
Marine owned territory should be obvious: The lights are on. Alien owned territory should be obvious: The lights are out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Make sense from a 'lore' perspective as well, the base should be on emergency lighting.
People have watched Aliens right?
Small team lands, finds abandoned base running on backup emergecy power, gets power running in main, expands from there. Makes zero sense for the main hive to be lit up like a powered base.
The problem is that even red emergency lighting gives aliens an advantage due to their flashlight and how the human eye works. And complete darkness isn't so much alien advantage as it is alien auto-win. It sounds cool but it just doesn't play well.
<!--quoteo(post=1959234:date=Aug 8 2012, 10:36 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Aug 8 2012, 10:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959234"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The problem is that even red emergency lighting gives aliens an advantage due to their flashlight and how the human eye works. And complete darkness isn't so much alien advantage as it is alien auto-win. It sounds cool but it just doesn't play well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats exactly why you dont stay in the room lights go out you gtfo of ther unless its the main base red lights give you at least a little view without a flashlight darkness unless its only like one skulk and thers 4 marines you get the heck out of ther. How often do you play that you stay in the completely dark room spraying and praying?
<!--quoteo(post=1959234:date=Aug 8 2012, 09:36 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Aug 8 2012, 09:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959234"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The problem is that even red emergency lighting gives aliens an advantage due to their flashlight and how the human eye works. And complete darkness isn't so much alien advantage as it is alien auto-win. It sounds cool but it just doesn't play well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And yet lots of other people say that the red light is too bright, so which is it, is emergency lighting too bright or too dark?
If its middle ground then well. good. <i>Contested territory should be middle ground.</i>
<!--quoteo(post=1959314:date=Aug 8 2012, 12:52 PM:name=Vaelkyri)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vaelkyri @ Aug 8 2012, 12:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959314"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And yet lots of other people say that the red light is too bright, so which is it, is emergency lighting too bright or too dark?
If its middle ground then well. good. <i>Contested territory should be middle ground.</i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're taking comments out of context.
Some people think it's too birght because they want it to be super dark and force Marines to use flashlights to navigate.
Some people say its too dark... wait, not really. Align and myself are saying it's dark enough to give an advantage to Aliens, which is what it should be doing. Going further just tips the balance too much towards Aliens during an engagement as proven when the lights go out and Marines run around scared and eventually dead.
Comments
It seems to me that the big issue that people are having with power nodes, is that they are too much of a necessity for the frontiersman team.
Seeing as "zerging" the main power node is so common in games, now it is becoming kinda silly.
So here are some solutions/additions to make them more dynamic-
#1 making power packs a basic structure.... ShaZam!
Now you can easily have 1 IP powered up at all times from the start of the game. (solving the problem most people have with power nodes)
It also adds even more dynamics to the game with extra builds from the start of the game.
and some additions to the mix...
#1 drifter clog-
this allows drifters to "clog" power nodes that are on infestation (making them de-power), this will allow the commander to darken infested zones and give drifters additional use.
#2 infestation clog-
same idea, just make it a building that requires infestation.
notes-
-don't just let drifters "clog" any broken powernodes, I fear this will slow overall game pace.
I think that letting them "clog" only un-socked powernodes would be a better idea.
"power-clog" health should be low- something like (100hp 50armor) so that an attacking player can quickly kill it when attempting a base rush/push
Remember in many games, you often add some entities (buttons, blocks, ...) that you can use, weld, or destroy and that would trigger some events on the map, like a door opening, something exploding, or whatever.
Power nodes are like that, but obligatory and all over the map.
If you did this, they'd need to be a lot more fragile. Also, I would get rid of emergency lights as well, make the dark meaningful.
I would also consider having turrets powered by nodes, but nothing else.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
^ this. Because the only really good thing about the power nodes is the dramatic effect when the lights go out, imo.
If you did this, they'd need to be a lot more fragile. Also, I would get rid of emergency lights as well, make the dark meaningful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
Best post in the entire thread, sadly nobody discussed it.
Additional ideas:
1.)At the beginning there should be emergency lighting in everyroom = neutral conditions, no significant advantage for any side
2.)Power node is build in a room -> "normal" lighting kicks in = conditions favoring marines, it's easier to spot aliens
3.)Power node is destroyed -> Emergency lights for 10 seconds -> Complete darkness (like its now immediatly after a power node is destroyed) -> marines HAVE to use flashlights to see anything = conditions favoring aliens for obvious reasons.
Lighting as a viable gameplay mechanic seperated from buildings/power. Thats the way to go.
EDIT:
In addition it would add alot of atmosphere, just imagine the glowing hive / cysts in a dark room. Also Marines slowly moving forward in a dark room with their flashlights on, shocked by any skulk that popps out of the darkest corner. Thats how i would like to experince NS2.
Scrap 'em and repurpose the _effects_, so that that infestation spreads from structures and lights become brighter and cooler in presence of marine structures, dimmer and redder in presence of alien structures.
Infestation and power has been tweaked since forever, but at best they have become only slightly less detrimental.
1.)At the beginning there should be emergency lighting in everyroom = neutral conditions, no significant advantage for any side
2.)Power node is build in a room -> "normal" lighting kicks in = conditions favoring marines, it's easier to spot aliens
3.)Power node is destroyed -> Emergency lights for 10 seconds -> Complete darkness (like its now immediatly after a power node is destroyed) -> marines HAVE to use flashlights to see anything = conditions favoring aliens for obvious reasons.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Personally I'd say state 3 is a very bad thing. Complete darkness except for flashlights make navigation extremely cumbersome and a severe disadvatnage for Marines to maneuver, navigate, and get down hostiles. Too big of an advantage imo. Already emergency-only lights favors Aliens quite a bit.
I'd say move emergency red lights to state 3 (destroyed) and make a new state with some, but not all lights on for state 1. So you still have the main lights for navigation, basic threat assessment, but putting in the powernode will allow much better visibility. Would require some hacking around, but I feel a better middle-ground.
I am though very interested in how things could work with power nodes only being light related and not building related. More flexibility for hazardous building drops for Marines bringing back their early-game flexibility in NS1.
What about rooms without techpoints where you can't place command stations? thats a lot of unpowered areas...
Then build the power node?
Power nodes are probably one of the best additions to this game, they add an entire layer of strategy and depth to defending/attacking a room, and are one of the high points of NS2<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly how i feel as well. Except the bugs there still are (unpowered structures even though the room is powered f.e.), i've really come to like the mechanic. When i started playing the beta more (4-5 months ago) i thought they were a big problem, and couldn't be balanced (they were a real pain that time :D). But now i feel they're almost fine in terms of balance.
<!--quoteo(post=1959013:date=Aug 8 2012, 09:54 AM:name=Vaelkyri)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vaelkyri @ Aug 8 2012, 09:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959013"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Personally I like the power node system, it adds some depth. That said some defensive abilty for it would be nice- say a com can select one and electrify it (on a reasonable CD)making is less vunerable to skulk rushes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The commander can use nano shield to protect a power point.
1.)At the beginning there should be emergency lighting in everyroom = neutral conditions, no significant advantage for any side
2.)Power node is build in a room -> "normal" lighting kicks in = conditions favoring marines, it's easier to spot aliens
3.)Power node is destroyed -> Emergency lights for 10 seconds -> Complete darkness (like its now immediatly after a power node is destroyed) -> marines HAVE to use flashlights to see anything = conditions favoring aliens for obvious reasons.
Lighting as a viable gameplay mechanic seperated from buildings/power. Thats the way to go.
EDIT:
In addition it would add alot of atmosphere, just imagine the glowing hive / cysts in a dark room. Also Marines slowly moving forward in a dark room with their flashlights on, shocked by any skulk that popps out of the darkest corner. Thats how i would like to experince NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with this.
Marines should push out into the darkness of the unknown from base.
Marine owned territory should be obvious: The lights are on.
Alien owned territory should be obvious: The lights are out.
Marines should push out into the darkness of the unknown from base.
Marine owned territory should be obvious: The lights are on.
Alien owned territory should be obvious: The lights are out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Make sense from a 'lore' perspective as well, the base should be on emergency lighting.
People have watched Aliens right?
Small team lands, finds abandoned base running on backup emergecy power, gets power running in main, expands from there. Makes zero sense for the main hive to be lit up like a powered base.
thats exactly why you dont stay in the room lights go out you gtfo of ther unless its the main base red lights give you at least a little view without a flashlight darkness unless its only like one skulk and thers 4 marines you get the heck out of ther. How often do you play that you stay in the completely dark room spraying and praying?
And yet lots of other people say that the red light is too bright, so which is it, is emergency lighting too bright or too dark?
If its middle ground then well. good. <i>Contested territory should be middle ground.</i>
If its middle ground then well. good. <i>Contested territory should be middle ground.</i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're taking comments out of context.
Some people think it's too birght because they want it to be super dark and force Marines to use flashlights to navigate.
Some people say its too dark... wait, not really. Align and myself are saying it's dark enough to give an advantage to Aliens, which is what it should be doing. Going further just tips the balance too much towards Aliens during an engagement as proven when the lights go out and Marines run around scared and eventually dead.