Gorge bile bomb
AurOn2
COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS!Australia Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS!Australia Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
<div class="IPBDescription">Ridiculusly op</div>In its current incarnation, bile bomb can rip a base to shreds even if your whole marine team is there, be it vents, strafing because of the bad design of the base marines cant seem to get around him to kill him, or hes lagging the heck out.
i just played a game, guy got like 200 in score with just bile bomb, which cost me up to 300-400 res. one gorge. even when i beaconed my troops to the position he was destroying, wuht!
forewarning: Don't say "Well if you couldn't prevent..." nonsense, that argument is baseless, pointless, and irrelevent to my point, rambo gorges, are much more fearsome than rambo skulks, and they are as support character. one gorge can destroy your base in seconds, especialy with adrenaline and carapace, maybe feign death if you play your cards right, so even if you have massive teamwork, a fantastic team, one gorge can ruin it all.
And it's so obvious, that people abuse it, specificaly gorge so as to just bile bomb your base and do nothing else, this is ridiculus, they even ignore players just to do it. it needs to be nerfed.
just for comparison, a jetpacking grenlaunching marine can't do half the damage a gorge can, thats 25+10, he will eventualy run out of ammo and fuel and crags will heal up, also you can counter this with (mature) whips.
So that means theres NO REASON TO GO ONOS, apart from onos trains, soaking up damage for a gorge, or some other reason you can come up with, why spend 75 res to go onos when you can spend 10 res to go gorge and do much more damage?
Theres multiple ways to fix this OBVIOUS problem, don't try to say that it's anything but.
<ol type='1'>1) Slow down bilebombs shooting time, one gorge can shoot over 10000 biles a second, and with adren, he never runs out of energy!
2) increase bilebombs energy cost! this will make adren so much less op when using bile!
3) reduce the dot damage.
4) make it third hive research
5) Implement the "you must buy upgrades" system that is.. well.. partially in. (When you click on b, click on a life form, theres a small bubble as to what abils you have)
This will help multitudes of things. then you could slightly reduce the tres cost of all upgrades.</li></ol>
and i'm out of ideas
Ok flame away, you know you want to
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->
REMEMBER HOWEVER, no "Well if you can't...." posts, that is UN-constructive to the point and can be considered as SPAM for all i care. might as well not make the point, as its just derogatory and causes an entirely new topic to be... "discussed" (more like flamed and trolled but anyway)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
TL;DR Gorge bile bomb is op. i'm lazy and i can't read, and auron is the best. the end. ever.
i just played a game, guy got like 200 in score with just bile bomb, which cost me up to 300-400 res. one gorge. even when i beaconed my troops to the position he was destroying, wuht!
forewarning: Don't say "Well if you couldn't prevent..." nonsense, that argument is baseless, pointless, and irrelevent to my point, rambo gorges, are much more fearsome than rambo skulks, and they are as support character. one gorge can destroy your base in seconds, especialy with adrenaline and carapace, maybe feign death if you play your cards right, so even if you have massive teamwork, a fantastic team, one gorge can ruin it all.
And it's so obvious, that people abuse it, specificaly gorge so as to just bile bomb your base and do nothing else, this is ridiculus, they even ignore players just to do it. it needs to be nerfed.
just for comparison, a jetpacking grenlaunching marine can't do half the damage a gorge can, thats 25+10, he will eventualy run out of ammo and fuel and crags will heal up, also you can counter this with (mature) whips.
So that means theres NO REASON TO GO ONOS, apart from onos trains, soaking up damage for a gorge, or some other reason you can come up with, why spend 75 res to go onos when you can spend 10 res to go gorge and do much more damage?
Theres multiple ways to fix this OBVIOUS problem, don't try to say that it's anything but.
<ol type='1'>1) Slow down bilebombs shooting time, one gorge can shoot over 10000 biles a second, and with adren, he never runs out of energy!
2) increase bilebombs energy cost! this will make adren so much less op when using bile!
3) reduce the dot damage.
4) make it third hive research
5) Implement the "you must buy upgrades" system that is.. well.. partially in. (When you click on b, click on a life form, theres a small bubble as to what abils you have)
This will help multitudes of things. then you could slightly reduce the tres cost of all upgrades.</li></ol>
and i'm out of ideas
Ok flame away, you know you want to
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->
REMEMBER HOWEVER, no "Well if you can't...." posts, that is UN-constructive to the point and can be considered as SPAM for all i care. might as well not make the point, as its just derogatory and causes an entirely new topic to be... "discussed" (more like flamed and trolled but anyway)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
TL;DR Gorge bile bomb is op. i'm lazy and i can't read, and auron is the best. the end. ever.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
A gorge is in no way capable of surviving a marine (assuming about equal skill levels (read: if the marine can aim and shoot)). A gorge is a support character in the way that it cannot do damage on its own, it cannot survive on its own. It needs skulk support in the early game to move forward, or oni in the lategame to assault bases. Even then the gorge can't do more than dealing damage to buildings with bilebomb, it was always this way even in NS1.
You SHOULD be able to kill the gorge, and if you cannot, then either the alien team had good teamwork protecting the gorge or your team wasn't good enough to catch it. The damage it deals should be high. Marines can weld up their buildings and bilebomb is just a way to destroy an entrenched position. If the alien team pushed the marines back into their main base then the gorges are able to get in position, if the marines didn't let it come that far, the gorge would never be able to get into the main base and kill off buildings. Sure, a skulk could sneak in and become a gorge, but he cannot kill those buildings fast enough if you send your marines to take him out. If you have nobody nearby and no way to get to that position with speed, like a phasegate ... then this gorge is just tactically outmaneuvering you.
TL;DR: I believe it's working as intended.
A gorge is in no way capable of surviving a marine (assuming about equal skill levels (read: if the marine can aim and shoot)). A gorge is a support character in the way that it cannot do damage on its own, it cannot survive on its own. It needs skulk support in the early game to move forward, or oni in the lategame to assault bases. Even then the gorge can't do more than dealing damage to buildings with bilebomb, it was always this way even in NS1.
You SHOULD be able to kill the gorge, and if you cannot, then either the alien team had good teamwork protecting the gorge or your team wasn't good enough to catch it. The damage it deals should be high. Marines can weld up their buildings and bilebomb is just a way to destroy an entrenched position. If the alien team pushed the marines back into their main base then the gorges are able to get in position, if the marines didn't let it come that far, the gorge would never be able to get into the main base and kill off buildings. Sure, a skulk could sneak in and become a gorge, but he cannot kill those buildings fast enough if you send your marines to take him out. If you have nobody nearby and no way to get to that position with speed, like a phasegate ... then this gorge is just tactically outmaneuvering you.
TL;DR: I believe it's working as intended.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
The only way a single gorge is going to take out your base is if he is alone in there for a lot time. Even with upgrades it still takes BB a while to take out structures, it's not instant like you make it sound like.
If your team was coordinated or the comm knew what he was doing he would warn his team about the gorge or beacon them back to base if it got that bad, hell he could jump out and chase the gorge down and kill it himself.
Aliens need a way to prevent and break Marine entrenchment. Currently the only thing that really works is Gorge BB. Marines already have GLs and ARCs that will demolish any Alien fortification in seconds, but it takes Aliens a life time to do the same.
The only way a single gorge is going to take out your base is if he is alone in there for a lot time. Even with upgrades it still takes BB a while to take out structures, it's not instant like you make it sound like.
If your team was coordinated or the comm knew what he was doing he would warn his team about the gorge or beacon them back to base if it got that bad, hell he could jump out and chase the gorge down and kill it himself.
Aliens need a way to prevent and break Marine entrenchment. Currently the only thing that really works is Gorge BB. Marines already have GLs and ARCs that will demolish any Alien fortification in seconds, but it takes Aliens a life time to do the same.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+2
I am new to the game and don't necessarily say it is OP or UP however from my experience of playing NS2 I have not ever thought bilebomb is anything more than fking annoying when they do a base rush. Remember marines have MAC's which are actually useful for the res they cost.
That being said you cannot start a thread about a discussion, to then just omit a key argument that you do not want to hear because you don't agree with it. These guys have put forward convincing arguments how the gorge sucks giant ass on its own without support, just for you to say in your thread start ''ah but situational arguments will be void'', that is not conducive to fixing the problem (if there was one)
<!--quoteo(post=1963361:date=Aug 15 2012, 05:44 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Aug 15 2012, 05:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1963361"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Time taken to destroy structure with continuous bile bomb attack from single gorge
Armoury - 12 seconds
Upgraded Armoury - 20 seconds
Arms Lab - 15 seconds
Observatory - 10 seconds
Time taken to destroy mature shell by weapon
LMG - 9 seconds
Knife - 8 seconds
Shotgun - 5 seconds
Time taken to destroy mature spur by weapon
LMG - 6 seconds
Shotgun - 4 seconds
This is considering no adrenaline and no weapon upgrades, though it obviously requires that the alien team have 2 hives, and the bile bomb upgrade. Marines obviously need only the shotgun upgrade. And if you want to talk AOE, lets talk about the grenade launcher.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol
Only thing a bilebombing gorge is good for is assaulting with the rest of his team, otherwise he dies in a few shots.
I agree bilebomb is a bit overpowered, but I think thats a problem with adrenaline and carapace. Before when carapace had no slowdown, and when adrenaline didn't exist, gorges protected the onos. Now its the other way around, the onos protects the gorge whom is bilebombing. Why? The onos knows he is too slow to enter the room and survive, while the gorge can do the same damage from range.
If the powenode goes down that's an issue with the team/commander. Between phase gates, beacon, and probably JPs by the time Bile Bomb is researched, gorges shouldn't be that much a problem.
The perceived weakness of powernodes was discussed at length during the Onos fiasco of 206+-. The primary reason commanders lose their base to powernode focus is because they simply do not drop powerpacks. This is either because they lack the strategic foresight necessary to spend resources on something that doesn't immediately fly into a hive and explode, or because they are too spoiled to possibly make backup plans for when things go wrong.
Funny thing is, powerpacks are pretty strong themselves, taking a skulk 12 seconds to destroy. Put one on either IP and one on the Obs and you are set.
If I command I will just use my mic or keyboard to ask for a couple of marines to kill it and here we go.
I don't think I have ever seen an entire base (or even more than a single structure) destroyed by a single "rambo" gorge.
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