<!--quoteo(post=1971555:date=Sep 4 2012, 11:10 PM:name=Stele007)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stele007 @ Sep 4 2012, 11:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1971555"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->lol, you have no idea what you are talking about. Axes are great building dps and murder all buildings. Crags heal a flat 10 HP or armor every second or two. Your axe does far, far more than that. I'm too lazy to do the numbers, but from experience not even 5 crags (75 tres!) is enough to out-heal one marine's axe.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, here is how this stuff works. I go in game and test something, record time to kill (or not in this case), and post it here.
Then you say that you're too lazy to double check, but you're sure I am wrong.
I think you're misunderstanding how testing works.
<!--quoteo(post=1971641:date=Sep 5 2012, 01:25 AM:name=Tailor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tailor @ Sep 5 2012, 01:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1971641"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think you're misunderstanding how testing works.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> As do I. I can whack on those things for over a minute some times without them going down; something is up with crag heal rates.
<!--quoteo(post=1971586:date=Sep 5 2012, 04:54 AM:name=MurphyIdiot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MurphyIdiot @ Sep 5 2012, 04:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1971586"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In 218, the MAC will stop welding for 1 second after it takes damage. Try using bile bomb against a group of them ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1971641:date=Sep 5 2012, 02:25 AM:name=Tailor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tailor @ Sep 5 2012, 02:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1971641"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, here is how this stuff works. I go in game and test something, record time to kill (or not in this case), and post it here.
Then you say that you're too lazy to double check, but you're sure I am wrong.
I think you're misunderstanding how testing works.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I say I'm too lazy to test because I've observed this many times in game on the current patch. I kill crags ALL THE TIME with my axe by myself. I was just an alien commander last night and watched one marine knife away one of my crags in a group of 4 crags.
By the way, there is a way for your axe to attack around 50% faster.
<!--quoteo(post=1971850:date=Sep 5 2012, 08:28 AM:name=Stele007)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stele007 @ Sep 5 2012, 08:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1971850"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I say I'm too lazy to test because I've observed this many times in game on the current patch. I kill crags ALL THE TIME with my axe by myself. I was just an alien commander last night and watched one marine knife away one of my crags in a group of 4 crags.
By the way, there is a way for your axe to attack around 50% faster.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Could you share this "way" so you can solve the three most important things relevant to this topic?
- Help me and others be better players - Relay a testable mechanic for arbitrarily increasing the attack speed of the axe by 50% and also possibly finding an unknown game bug - Prove that you aren't talking out of your rectum with anecdotal evidence
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1971586:date=Sep 4 2012, 09:54 PM:name=MurphyIdiot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MurphyIdiot @ Sep 4 2012, 09:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1971586"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In 218, the MAC will stop welding for 1 second after it takes damage. Try using bile bomb against a group of them ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not sure if nerfing MACs in this manner is the best solution.
It would enhance Bile Bomb's super effectiveness against MACs. But one Gorge with Bilebomb can already take out MACs without much trouble at all! With this change, any number of MACs will melt away in 3 seconds, and will not stand a chance against Gorges.
Instead, the reason MACs in large numbers are overpowered is that aliens without AOE attacks, such as Skulks, Lerks and Fades, even Onos cannot kill groups of MACs that are welding each other. That is the source of player frustration.
<!--quoteo(post=1971870:date=Sep 5 2012, 09:08 AM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Sep 5 2012, 09:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1971870"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure if that's the best solution.
It would enhance Bile Bomb's super effectiveness against MACs. But Bilebomb can already take out MACs without much trouble. Instead, the problem is that aliens without AOE attacks, it's the Skulks, Lerks (to a lesser extend due to Spikes), and Fades, even Onos cannot kill groups of MACs welding each other.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As I showed not too much earlier, a skulk doesn't have a huge problem killing a mac with a couple other macs there repairing it automatically. An Onos has literally no problem doing said killing. The only lifeforms that really have an issue are Lerks and Fades, since they literally cannot kill one at all in a group of three.
That said, I still stand by the fact that lerks and fades should be worthless at killing macs, and their current inability is appropriate negative reinforcement for going and doing something else constructive.
In regards, again, to the skulk issue, I don't think this is imbalanced and believe it is fine as is. Perception is usually different from reality, and the reality in this case is that a zero cost base life form has trouble, but is not unable, to kill a single mac in a group of at least three within 12 seconds. That group of three macs cost 20 res, not counting the Robotics Factory. The macs are a purely defensive investment, and I think it should be rewarded to safety conscious commanders to spend a few res to maintain some base macs.
However, I do think it should be more of a stark choice between investing in turrets and macs since the latter have a future investment in exo repair, serving in a pseudo offensive role, and a possible EMP research.
As a suggestion to balance these two, I would always lean to buffing rather than nerfing, and in this case, possibly allowing marines to pick up and move turrets after they have been built would make them equal in terms of their ability to affect both the early and late games.
A repair rate or amount decrease seems okay for the short term, but I fear the risk of a unit that is never used.
It seems like a rock paper scissors thing to me. Fades destroy marine units, but the really don't much building damage. It seems like a fair trade off that keeps ONE ALIEN from ninjaing an entire base. Its a team thing, if all you see at their base is three macs, then by all means have your teammates help kill them. Simple solution. More than three? Why didn't your comm get bile bomb? Its a must have for anti base operations. Problem solved.
<!--quoteo(post=1971586:date=Sep 4 2012, 09:54 PM:name=MurphyIdiot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MurphyIdiot @ Sep 4 2012, 09:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1971586"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In 218, the MAC will stop welding for 1 second after it takes damage. Try using bile bomb against a group of them ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so as a skulk/fade/lerk i would have to attack 1 mac, then the next, then the next, then the next ... over and over (to stop them repairing eachother) .... until they all die ? Is that the best solution they could have come up with ? :/
<!--quoteo(post=1971863:date=Sep 5 2012, 09:52 AM:name=Tailor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tailor @ Sep 5 2012, 09:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1971863"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Could you share this "way" so you can solve the three most important things relevant to this topic?
- Help me and others be better players - Relay a testable mechanic for arbitrarily increasing the attack speed of the axe by 50% and also possibly finding an unknown game bug - Prove that you aren't talking out of your rectum with anecdotal evidence<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really don't think crags are relevant to this topic as they are static, cost 3x the res, and heal at a much slower rate, but the axe animation is essentially a double swipe followed by a short delay. If you let go of the mouse button after the second swipe then press it again shortly after, you cut the delay short. It's been in the game for a long time and is very easy to reliably perform.
<!--quoteo(post=1971870:date=Sep 5 2012, 10:08 AM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Sep 5 2012, 10:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1971870"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure if nerfing MACs in this manner is the best solution.
It would enhance Bile Bomb's super effectiveness against MACs. But one Gorge with Bilebomb can already take out MACs without much trouble at all! With this change, any number of MACs will melt away in 3 seconds, and will not stand a chance against Gorges.
Instead, the reason MACs in large numbers are overpowered is that aliens without AOE attacks, such as Skulks, Lerks and Fades, even Onos cannot kill groups of MACs that are welding each other. That is the source of player frustration.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I completely agree. The gorge has the only AoE attack (though this could help lerks if they spread their attacks since spikes are extremely fast) and this fix only affects the MAC you are attacking, which has nothing to weld anyway.
<!--quoteo(post=1971870:date=Sep 5 2012, 09:08 AM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Sep 5 2012, 09:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1971870"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure if nerfing MACs in this manner is the best solution.
It would enhance Bile Bomb's super effectiveness against MACs. But one Gorge with Bilebomb can already take out MACs without much trouble at all! With this change, any number of MACs will melt away in 3 seconds, and will not stand a chance against Gorges.
Instead, the reason MACs in large numbers are overpowered is that aliens without AOE attacks, such as Skulks, Lerks and Fades, even Onos cannot kill groups of MACs that are welding each other. That is the source of player frustration.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I partially agree. If there are 3 MACs, then it's fine - a skulk/fade can switch back and forth keeping 2 out of the healing picture. However, the moment a 4th MAC joins the party, there are still going to be 2 MACs welding at a time. For an extra 5 tres, the marines completely undo the fix.
<!--quoteo(post=1971863:date=Sep 5 2012, 09:52 AM:name=Tailor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tailor @ Sep 5 2012, 09:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1971863"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Could you share this "way" so you can solve the three most important things relevant to this topic?
- Help me and others be better players - Relay a testable mechanic for arbitrarily increasing the attack speed of the axe by 50% and also possibly finding an unknown game bug - Prove that you aren't talking out of your rectum with anecdotal evidence<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The trick to increasing axe attack speed is clicking m1 right as the 2nd swing ends, it will speed up the recycle time on the attack sequence and you will attack about 30% faster. Toy around with the axe and you should be able to notice it.
Edit: It is fairly common knowledge and an accepted feature by this point I think.
<!--quoteo(post=1971555:date=Sep 5 2012, 12:10 AM:name=Stele007)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stele007 @ Sep 5 2012, 12:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1971555"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->lol, you have no idea what you are talking about. Axes are great building dps and murder all buildings. Crags heal a flat 10 HP or armor every second or two. Your axe does far, far more than that. I'm too lazy to do the numbers, but from experience not even 5 crags (75 tres!) is enough to out-heal one marine's axe.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is all well and good, but does not explain why the other day me and another marine could not kill a lone crag using any of our weapons (even with the AS trick on the axe). Have you tried killing crags in 218? That is when I began noticing them healing mad quick. Also dont act like an arrogant ###### or no one will like you (especially when you are most likely wrong).
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1972259:date=Sep 5 2012, 03:23 PM:name=1dominator1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (1dominator1 @ Sep 5 2012, 03:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1972259"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That is all well and good, but does not explain why the other day me and another marine could not kill a lone crag using any of our weapons (even with the AS trick on the axe). Have you tried killing crags in 218? That is when I began noticing them healing mad quick...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I believe that's a known bug caused by inconsistency between the server and the client.
I would like to have a consistent behavior for: - welding by MACs - welding by player - healing by gorge - healing by craig
This four mechanics have the same potential problems. If you increase the numbers of the healers / welders you got a balance problem.
The solution I like the most, is to have the same mechanic for all 4: The longer the healing- / welding-target has received no damage the more effective you heal.
Example: 1 Onos escorted by 1 gorge rushing a base. As long as the onos receives damage, the healing of the gorge is only 10% of the normal healing amount. If the Onos has not taken damage for 5 seconds, the healing is 50%. If the onos has not taken damage in the last 10 seconds, the healing is ramped up to 100% of the healing speed.
Sure, the gorge wouldn't be so effective in combat support as it is now. But face it, this fragile class isn't made for this anyway. It is only used, because the healing in combat is op and only balanced by the fragility of the gorge.
It's the same system that is used by TF2 for the medic. It ensures, that healing in battle never creates a too big advantage, just because you got to many healers. It also encourages you to a more tactical game-play with fall-backs and pushes.
Sadly, the only problem is bile bomb. Damage over time overpowers this mechanic.
Another way of nerfing turbo heal/repair would be to implement diminishing returns for more that 1 healer per target. So, for example, one healer goes at 100% normal rate, two at 150% combined, three at 175%, etc. instead of a straight linear increase.
I only played a few hours yesterday, but MACs still feel really broken. There were three games won solely because of 10+ MACs flying around everywhere building and repairing everything. I was marine comm for one of them, and I just had to send the MACs away when I saw a gorge until my team took it out, then send the MACs back to repair everything.
Oh, and you can disregard the axe trick I mentioned earlier. They finally fixed it. :(
<!--quoteo(post=1972928:date=Sep 6 2012, 10:41 AM:name=Stele007)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stele007 @ Sep 6 2012, 10:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1972928"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I only played a few hours yesterday, but MACs still feel really broken. There were three games won solely because of 10+ MACs flying around everywhere building and repairing everything. I was marine comm for one of them, and I just had to send the MACs away when I saw a gorge until my team took it out, then send the MACs back to repair everything.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The counter to this is gorge bilebomb. Yes, gorges die very easily, but they only cost 10res. If you can't afford gorges or bile then the aliens were outplayed and don't deserve to win anyway.
(the splash stops all area MAC's from stopping welding)
See, gorges are fragile, rather slow creatures that die very quickly to focus fire from marines and especially exosuits. Making gorges (players) the only counter to MAC spam (cheap NPC units) is a bad idea because the alien team can do literally nothing to exosuits (extremely high DPS players) or buildings until those MACs are dead. In some of these games, there were people dedicated to gorging and killing our MACs, but they died very quickly to the marines. Any MACs they may have killed were easily replaced.
Edit: I should clarify that I think that the combination of MACs and exosuits with extra MACs sitting in base is what makes them so difficult to counter.
<!--quoteo(post=1972936:date=Sep 6 2012, 10:52 AM:name=Stele007)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stele007 @ Sep 6 2012, 10:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1972936"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->See, gorges are fragile, rather slow creatures that die very quickly to focus fire from marines and especially exosuits. Making gorges (players) the only counter to MAC spam (cheap NPC units) is a bad idea because the alien team can do literally nothing to exosuits (extremely high DPS units) or buildings until those MACs are dead. In some of these games, there were people dedicated to gorging and killing our MACs, but they died very quickly to the marines. Any MACs they may have killed were easily replaced.
Edit: I should clarify that I think that the combination of MACs and exosuits with extra MACs sitting in base is what makes them so difficult to counter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The key here is teamwork. Gorges need support, but gorges who go in to kill MACs usually die. If they stay a room back, they can bombard thru doorways with support at a safe distance (while skulks/onos/fades cause chaos). The range on bile is pretty damn good. This probably wont kill as much as running in but your AOE bile will splash on macs and disrupt welding (and blind exos), while other lifeforms can last hit.
Yes gorges will die and be targeted, but it is up to the team to keep them safe in these situations. Plus its only 10 to re-evolve. Just stay back and provide healing on alien retreat, and harass at range when it feels safe.
Edit: if you have 1-2 onos (and preferably another gorge) feel free to charge into their base.
You can talk about all of these theoretical ways to counter it, but I feel like you really need to just need to play one of these games to really see the problem. You can have unlimited MACs, but every player that goes gorge to bile bomb is one less alien that can defend against marine players. Again, exosuits are nigh invulnerable until after the MACs die, and a comm can just pull them away until the gorges are killed by, say, jetpack shotgun marines or grenade launchers (both of which can quickly dispatch gorges that keep peeking behind corners).
Yeah, theorycraft all you want, reality is miniguns, corridors, your support is melee attack based and bile has a limited range all pretty much imply gorge is fooked trying to clear macs from behind exos.
Oh, and gorge isn't so good at flanking. So operative phrase remains 'behind exos.'
Comments
So, here is how this stuff works. I go in game and test something, record time to kill (or not in this case), and post it here.
Then you say that you're too lazy to double check, but you're sure I am wrong.
I think you're misunderstanding how testing works.
As do I. I can whack on those things for over a minute some times without them going down; something is up with crag heal rates.
This is a perfect response to the problem.
Then you say that you're too lazy to double check, but you're sure I am wrong.
I think you're misunderstanding how testing works.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I say I'm too lazy to test because I've observed this many times in game on the current patch. I kill crags ALL THE TIME with my axe by myself. I was just an alien commander last night and watched one marine knife away one of my crags in a group of 4 crags.
By the way, there is a way for your axe to attack around 50% faster.
By the way, there is a way for your axe to attack around 50% faster.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Could you share this "way" so you can solve the three most important things relevant to this topic?
- Help me and others be better players
- Relay a testable mechanic for arbitrarily increasing the attack speed of the axe by 50% and also possibly finding an unknown game bug
- Prove that you aren't talking out of your rectum with anecdotal evidence
I'm not sure if nerfing MACs in this manner is the best solution.
It would enhance Bile Bomb's super effectiveness against MACs. But one Gorge with Bilebomb can already take out MACs without much trouble at all! With this change, any number of MACs will melt away in 3 seconds, and will not stand a chance against Gorges.
Instead, the reason MACs in large numbers are overpowered is that aliens without AOE attacks, such as Skulks, Lerks and Fades, even Onos cannot kill groups of MACs that are welding each other. That is the source of player frustration.
It would enhance Bile Bomb's super effectiveness against MACs. But Bilebomb can already take out MACs without much trouble. Instead, the problem is that aliens without AOE attacks, it's the Skulks, Lerks (to a lesser extend due to Spikes), and Fades, even Onos cannot kill groups of MACs welding each other.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As I showed not too much earlier, a skulk doesn't have a huge problem killing a mac with a couple other macs there repairing it automatically. An Onos has literally no problem doing said killing. The only lifeforms that really have an issue are Lerks and Fades, since they literally cannot kill one at all in a group of three.
That said, I still stand by the fact that lerks and fades should be worthless at killing macs, and their current inability is appropriate negative reinforcement for going and doing something else constructive.
In regards, again, to the skulk issue, I don't think this is imbalanced and believe it is fine as is. Perception is usually different from reality, and the reality in this case is that a zero cost base life form has trouble, but is not unable, to kill a single mac in a group of at least three within 12 seconds. That group of three macs cost 20 res, not counting the Robotics Factory. The macs are a purely defensive investment, and I think it should be rewarded to safety conscious commanders to spend a few res to maintain some base macs.
However, I do think it should be more of a stark choice between investing in turrets and macs since the latter have a future investment in exo repair, serving in a pseudo offensive role, and a possible EMP research.
As a suggestion to balance these two, I would always lean to buffing rather than nerfing, and in this case, possibly allowing marines to pick up and move turrets after they have been built would make them equal in terms of their ability to affect both the early and late games.
A repair rate or amount decrease seems okay for the short term, but I fear the risk of a unit that is never used.
so as a skulk/fade/lerk i would have to attack 1 mac, then the next, then the next, then the next ... over and over (to stop them repairing eachother) .... until they all die ? Is that the best solution they could have come up with ? :/
- Help me and others be better players
- Relay a testable mechanic for arbitrarily increasing the attack speed of the axe by 50% and also possibly finding an unknown game bug
- Prove that you aren't talking out of your rectum with anecdotal evidence<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really don't think crags are relevant to this topic as they are static, cost 3x the res, and heal at a much slower rate, but the axe animation is essentially a double swipe followed by a short delay. If you let go of the mouse button after the second swipe then press it again shortly after, you cut the delay short. It's been in the game for a long time and is very easy to reliably perform.
<!--quoteo(post=1971870:date=Sep 5 2012, 10:08 AM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Sep 5 2012, 10:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1971870"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure if nerfing MACs in this manner is the best solution.
It would enhance Bile Bomb's super effectiveness against MACs. But one Gorge with Bilebomb can already take out MACs without much trouble at all! With this change, any number of MACs will melt away in 3 seconds, and will not stand a chance against Gorges.
Instead, the reason MACs in large numbers are overpowered is that aliens without AOE attacks, such as Skulks, Lerks and Fades, even Onos cannot kill groups of MACs that are welding each other. That is the source of player frustration.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I completely agree. The gorge has the only AoE attack (though this could help lerks if they spread their attacks since spikes are extremely fast) and this fix only affects the MAC you are attacking, which has nothing to weld anyway.
It would enhance Bile Bomb's super effectiveness against MACs. But one Gorge with Bilebomb can already take out MACs without much trouble at all! With this change, any number of MACs will melt away in 3 seconds, and will not stand a chance against Gorges.
Instead, the reason MACs in large numbers are overpowered is that aliens without AOE attacks, such as Skulks, Lerks and Fades, even Onos cannot kill groups of MACs that are welding each other. That is the source of player frustration.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I partially agree. If there are 3 MACs, then it's fine - a skulk/fade can switch back and forth keeping 2 out of the healing picture. However, the moment a 4th MAC joins the party, there are still going to be 2 MACs welding at a time. For an extra 5 tres, the marines completely undo the fix.
- Help me and others be better players
- Relay a testable mechanic for arbitrarily increasing the attack speed of the axe by 50% and also possibly finding an unknown game bug
- Prove that you aren't talking out of your rectum with anecdotal evidence<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The trick to increasing axe attack speed is clicking m1 right as the 2nd swing ends, it will speed up the recycle time on the attack sequence and you will attack about 30% faster. Toy around with the axe and you should be able to notice it.
Edit: It is fairly common knowledge and an accepted feature by this point I think.
<!--quoteo(post=1971555:date=Sep 5 2012, 12:10 AM:name=Stele007)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stele007 @ Sep 5 2012, 12:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1971555"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->lol, you have no idea what you are talking about. Axes are great building dps and murder all buildings. Crags heal a flat 10 HP or armor every second or two. Your axe does far, far more than that. I'm too lazy to do the numbers, but from experience not even 5 crags (75 tres!) is enough to out-heal one marine's axe.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is all well and good, but does not explain why the other day me and another marine could not kill a lone crag using any of our weapons (even with the AS trick on the axe). Have you tried killing crags in 218? That is when I began noticing them healing mad quick. Also dont act like an arrogant ###### or no one will like you (especially when you are most likely wrong).
I believe that's a known bug caused by inconsistency between the server and the client.
- welding by MACs
- welding by player
- healing by gorge
- healing by craig
This four mechanics have the same potential problems. If you increase the numbers of the healers / welders you got a balance problem.
The solution I like the most, is to have the same mechanic for all 4:
The longer the healing- / welding-target has received no damage the more effective you heal.
Example: 1 Onos escorted by 1 gorge rushing a base. As long as the onos receives damage, the healing of the gorge is only 10% of the normal healing amount. If the Onos has not taken damage for 5 seconds, the healing is 50%. If the onos has not taken damage in the last 10 seconds, the healing is ramped up to 100% of the healing speed.
Sure, the gorge wouldn't be so effective in combat support as it is now. But face it, this fragile class isn't made for this anyway. It is only used, because the healing in combat is op and only balanced by the fragility of the gorge.
It's the same system that is used by TF2 for the medic. It ensures, that healing in battle never creates a too big advantage, just because you got to many healers. It also encourages you to a more tactical game-play with fall-backs and pushes.
Sadly, the only problem is bile bomb. Damage over time overpowers this mechanic.
Oh, and you can disregard the axe trick I mentioned earlier. They finally fixed it. :(
The counter to this is gorge bilebomb. Yes, gorges die very easily, but they only cost 10res. If you can't afford gorges or bile then the aliens were outplayed and don't deserve to win anyway.
(the splash stops all area MAC's from stopping welding)
Edit: I should clarify that I think that the combination of MACs and exosuits with extra MACs sitting in base is what makes them so difficult to counter.
Edit: I should clarify that I think that the combination of MACs and exosuits with extra MACs sitting in base is what makes them so difficult to counter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The key here is teamwork. Gorges need support, but gorges who go in to kill MACs usually die. If they stay a room back, they can bombard thru doorways with support at a safe distance (while skulks/onos/fades cause chaos). The range on bile is pretty damn good. This probably wont kill as much as running in but your AOE bile will splash on macs and disrupt welding (and blind exos), while other lifeforms can last hit.
Yes gorges will die and be targeted, but it is up to the team to keep them safe in these situations. Plus its only 10 to re-evolve. Just stay back and provide healing on alien retreat, and harass at range when it feels safe.
Edit: if you have 1-2 onos (and preferably another gorge) feel free to charge into their base.
Oh, and gorge isn't so good at flanking. So operative phrase remains 'behind exos.'