My look at the game so far
Soulsafe
Join Date: 2012-09-05 Member: 157901Members
Join Date: 2012-09-05 Member: 157901Members
<div class="IPBDescription">in depth review of personal experience</div>I have had the game about a month now, and I feel I have played enough to give some feedback about it. My plan for this is to examine most of the major parts of the game from both sides, good and bad.
From the Alien's point of view:
Skulks: Not too much wrong with them, but trying to navigate corners gets a little difficult sometimes. Also, when there are bumps in the ceiling, it makes it really difficult to hang on. Try to cut down on the rafters attached to the ceilings so skulks don't just randomly let go while climbing.
Gorges: As an alien, I see no problems with gorges.
Lerks: Swapping the tiers of spikes and spores really reduced the incentive to go lerk early in the game. In close maps like summit, if i try to shoot a marine with spikes, it leaves me vulnerable enough to easily be sprayed down. Why not have spores be tier one, but weaker and with an upgrade to bring it up to normal damage.
Fades: Blinking as a fade really screws my frames per second. This in turn affects my ability to blink'n'hit. Perhaps add an option to turn down the intensiveness of fade blinking?
Onos: No real problems right now, any good onos isn't going to charge into a group of well armed marines anyway.
Assault rifles: No problems.
Shotguns: As annoying as it is to get one shotted as a skulk, it is fair.
Grenade Launchers: They really need to have their damage vs. lifeforms toned down. If marines rush into a hive with GL's, its almost impossible to stop them because all the splash damage anywhere prevents the aliens from having any chance of fighting back. If its the last hive, the splash damage instantly locks down eggs, further stopping and chance aliens have.
Flamethrowers: I never fight against them, so i don't know.
Jetpacks: They render skulks and fades useless. If a one of the two runs in, the marine takes to the air to kill them or scare them off. If the alien is forced to retreat, the marine simply regens fuel and repeats.
Exosuits: Put in small deadzone near their feet so the Exo can't simply protect himself AND the marines welding him. This would force welders to stop repairing for a moment. As is, if two exos walk in with marines welding them constantly, its pretty tough to take them out. Make it a hive rush and you are pretty screwed unless you bilebomb spam, but even then you simply get riddled unless you get into a vent or something.
From the Marine's point of view:
Skulks: I have played first person shooters for well over 10 years now, but I feel I am having more issues aiming than i should. I simply cannot keep up with a skulk's movements if he uses the environment to his advantage. I'm not saying nerf skill on the skulk's part, but many marines simply cannot fight skulks 1v1. And if a skulk is intended to be better than a marine, it creates huge balance issues. Base units not being equal skews the percentage of games that end due to early resource locking in favor of aliens. My suggestion is to implement some form of auto or stick aiming, no matter how minor. If newcomers are constantly being eaten by skulks and only achieving a kill for every 20 deaths, you will lose sales to rage quitting and people not enjoying themselves. My suggestion is a mechanic called stopping power. Remember Gears of War 1 online? People would run through bullets to one shot you with a shot gun. That was solved in Gears of War 2 online with stopping power. If you were getting shot, you moved slower. It only makes sense, lead bullets are riddling your internal organs. This should be the case with skulks. If a marine sees a skulk coming, he should have a better defense than "Kill him before he kills me". Skulk's win up close, but they are so mobile that what should be the marine's advantage at distance isn't. The skulk simply dodges most of the bullets, what few hitting him doing nothing until he closes the gap. I propose that if a skulk is getting shot, he moves slower. This will make them think their attacks out more.
Gorges: Everynow and then I get a Gorge that will dance around a pillar or something and constantly heal himself. While this is skill on his part, the same spray also hurts me. As he steps out to hurt me, he also heals himself. When he steps back him, he sprays and heals himself again. He then repeats this as I try to fight back, ultimately dieing. This goes back to this game simply being difficult to aim in for some reason. I don't know what it is, but there is something that really takes a new skill to shoot in as a marine.
Lerks: Spikes are annoying, but fair I guess. Spores however, are not. They do a fair bit of damage for minimal exposure time on the Lerk's part. If a lerk is shot mid-glide, he should be thrown off course, possibly colliding into the environment. If a lerk simply spams spores his whole life, between his movement and limited visibility, it's almost impossible to kill him.
Fades: Oh this is the fun part. Fades vs. Marines. Fades have 250 hp and 100 armor. Well over double the health a Marine has. In addition, he is EXTREMELY mobile, being able to blink in, hit, and blink out. Three marines with assault rifles have almost no chance against one. Fades can blink, that fine, its what they do, but they can't be tanks while they do it. I've only ever seen fades die when a dumb one charges a marine base with every marine at home. Even then it took an entire clip from everyone to down him. With adrenaline, fades can blink at will. This does not seem right. Their blink is faster than celerity, so no fade takes that. Adrenaline NEEDS to have a reduced effect with fades. There is no thinking involved when playing one. You right click, left click till kill, right click again. They are the hit and run alien, but they need to be able to die against two or three skilled marines. With as much health as they have, then can easily see when they are dieing and run. Add regeneration into the mix and you have a constant threat for the rest of the game. As more and more fades stack up, they become impossible to death with, and eventually spawn camp the infantry portals to death until aliens win the game. Fades need less hp, less energy, and possibly be affected by stopping power like skulks.
Onos: They really aren't that bad, but I would like to see a bigger cooldown on stomp.
Assault Rifles: Unless the earlier suggested changes to skulks are implemented, ARs are just terrible. The new player is absolutely unable to kill anything with them. They do barely any damage to a moving target, assuming not all your shots land, and have a horrendous reload time. Either speed up reload or speed up weapon switching, and pistol firing rate too. As is right now if i dont kill a skulk with my first mag its almost always a death on my part. I would like more margin for error.
Shotguns: The same issue with assault rifles. Yeah they hurt, but a lot of people i have met complain of simply having a hard time aiming in this game. Whenever we land shots it hurts, but we cant hit the enemy 80% of the time.
Grenade Launchers: I can feel the overpoweredness of a GL even as a marine. Tone down the damage, but maybe have them slow aliens caught in the explosion for a fraction of a second if they don't die. Shell shock is a real thing you know.
Flamethrowers: Whenever i use one i feel useless. They need to be buffed.
Jetpacks: With extra mobility comes extra difficulty aiming, but i still feel even a slight auto or sticky aim would improve the game greatly.
Exosuits: If i get into an exosuit, I am unable to exit. Many times I have been in a game where four marines in exo's are holding down the powerless comm chair for 5 minutes, but unable to do anything to help it. Either have Exo's be able to build (of course having them interrupted when attacked) or be able to exit one. Even if i want to exit one to repair it, that marine is extremely vulnerable to a skulk two shot, so it seems fair to me.
That is my take on the so far, please reply on what you think of my post.
From the Alien's point of view:
Skulks: Not too much wrong with them, but trying to navigate corners gets a little difficult sometimes. Also, when there are bumps in the ceiling, it makes it really difficult to hang on. Try to cut down on the rafters attached to the ceilings so skulks don't just randomly let go while climbing.
Gorges: As an alien, I see no problems with gorges.
Lerks: Swapping the tiers of spikes and spores really reduced the incentive to go lerk early in the game. In close maps like summit, if i try to shoot a marine with spikes, it leaves me vulnerable enough to easily be sprayed down. Why not have spores be tier one, but weaker and with an upgrade to bring it up to normal damage.
Fades: Blinking as a fade really screws my frames per second. This in turn affects my ability to blink'n'hit. Perhaps add an option to turn down the intensiveness of fade blinking?
Onos: No real problems right now, any good onos isn't going to charge into a group of well armed marines anyway.
Assault rifles: No problems.
Shotguns: As annoying as it is to get one shotted as a skulk, it is fair.
Grenade Launchers: They really need to have their damage vs. lifeforms toned down. If marines rush into a hive with GL's, its almost impossible to stop them because all the splash damage anywhere prevents the aliens from having any chance of fighting back. If its the last hive, the splash damage instantly locks down eggs, further stopping and chance aliens have.
Flamethrowers: I never fight against them, so i don't know.
Jetpacks: They render skulks and fades useless. If a one of the two runs in, the marine takes to the air to kill them or scare them off. If the alien is forced to retreat, the marine simply regens fuel and repeats.
Exosuits: Put in small deadzone near their feet so the Exo can't simply protect himself AND the marines welding him. This would force welders to stop repairing for a moment. As is, if two exos walk in with marines welding them constantly, its pretty tough to take them out. Make it a hive rush and you are pretty screwed unless you bilebomb spam, but even then you simply get riddled unless you get into a vent or something.
From the Marine's point of view:
Skulks: I have played first person shooters for well over 10 years now, but I feel I am having more issues aiming than i should. I simply cannot keep up with a skulk's movements if he uses the environment to his advantage. I'm not saying nerf skill on the skulk's part, but many marines simply cannot fight skulks 1v1. And if a skulk is intended to be better than a marine, it creates huge balance issues. Base units not being equal skews the percentage of games that end due to early resource locking in favor of aliens. My suggestion is to implement some form of auto or stick aiming, no matter how minor. If newcomers are constantly being eaten by skulks and only achieving a kill for every 20 deaths, you will lose sales to rage quitting and people not enjoying themselves. My suggestion is a mechanic called stopping power. Remember Gears of War 1 online? People would run through bullets to one shot you with a shot gun. That was solved in Gears of War 2 online with stopping power. If you were getting shot, you moved slower. It only makes sense, lead bullets are riddling your internal organs. This should be the case with skulks. If a marine sees a skulk coming, he should have a better defense than "Kill him before he kills me". Skulk's win up close, but they are so mobile that what should be the marine's advantage at distance isn't. The skulk simply dodges most of the bullets, what few hitting him doing nothing until he closes the gap. I propose that if a skulk is getting shot, he moves slower. This will make them think their attacks out more.
Gorges: Everynow and then I get a Gorge that will dance around a pillar or something and constantly heal himself. While this is skill on his part, the same spray also hurts me. As he steps out to hurt me, he also heals himself. When he steps back him, he sprays and heals himself again. He then repeats this as I try to fight back, ultimately dieing. This goes back to this game simply being difficult to aim in for some reason. I don't know what it is, but there is something that really takes a new skill to shoot in as a marine.
Lerks: Spikes are annoying, but fair I guess. Spores however, are not. They do a fair bit of damage for minimal exposure time on the Lerk's part. If a lerk is shot mid-glide, he should be thrown off course, possibly colliding into the environment. If a lerk simply spams spores his whole life, between his movement and limited visibility, it's almost impossible to kill him.
Fades: Oh this is the fun part. Fades vs. Marines. Fades have 250 hp and 100 armor. Well over double the health a Marine has. In addition, he is EXTREMELY mobile, being able to blink in, hit, and blink out. Three marines with assault rifles have almost no chance against one. Fades can blink, that fine, its what they do, but they can't be tanks while they do it. I've only ever seen fades die when a dumb one charges a marine base with every marine at home. Even then it took an entire clip from everyone to down him. With adrenaline, fades can blink at will. This does not seem right. Their blink is faster than celerity, so no fade takes that. Adrenaline NEEDS to have a reduced effect with fades. There is no thinking involved when playing one. You right click, left click till kill, right click again. They are the hit and run alien, but they need to be able to die against two or three skilled marines. With as much health as they have, then can easily see when they are dieing and run. Add regeneration into the mix and you have a constant threat for the rest of the game. As more and more fades stack up, they become impossible to death with, and eventually spawn camp the infantry portals to death until aliens win the game. Fades need less hp, less energy, and possibly be affected by stopping power like skulks.
Onos: They really aren't that bad, but I would like to see a bigger cooldown on stomp.
Assault Rifles: Unless the earlier suggested changes to skulks are implemented, ARs are just terrible. The new player is absolutely unable to kill anything with them. They do barely any damage to a moving target, assuming not all your shots land, and have a horrendous reload time. Either speed up reload or speed up weapon switching, and pistol firing rate too. As is right now if i dont kill a skulk with my first mag its almost always a death on my part. I would like more margin for error.
Shotguns: The same issue with assault rifles. Yeah they hurt, but a lot of people i have met complain of simply having a hard time aiming in this game. Whenever we land shots it hurts, but we cant hit the enemy 80% of the time.
Grenade Launchers: I can feel the overpoweredness of a GL even as a marine. Tone down the damage, but maybe have them slow aliens caught in the explosion for a fraction of a second if they don't die. Shell shock is a real thing you know.
Flamethrowers: Whenever i use one i feel useless. They need to be buffed.
Jetpacks: With extra mobility comes extra difficulty aiming, but i still feel even a slight auto or sticky aim would improve the game greatly.
Exosuits: If i get into an exosuit, I am unable to exit. Many times I have been in a game where four marines in exo's are holding down the powerless comm chair for 5 minutes, but unable to do anything to help it. Either have Exo's be able to build (of course having them interrupted when attacked) or be able to exit one. Even if i want to exit one to repair it, that marine is extremely vulnerable to a skulk two shot, so it seems fair to me.
That is my take on the so far, please reply on what you think of my post.
Comments
This isn't meant to be insulting but you just haven't played long enough. I know this because I shared some of your opinions in the past, and now think they're completely ridiculous...sometimes playing the game longer is all that's required.
Fades on the other hand are a whole different ballpark all together. Hard to touch that one.
Also, do you know why games on consoles have slight auto-aim and stupid crap like stopping power? Because analog sticks are ass to aim with, so they need to compensate for that lack of precision.
Auto-aim seems like a really bad idea. You're right that it may open the door for a much broader audience. However, it would greatly lower the skill ceiling and also require a hefty alien buff. A no carapce skulk only takes ten w0 LMG rounds to kill.
Jetpacks are insanely strong, however I think they may need to go back to pre-nerf status as long as fades are this strong.
Fades are too strong because swipe is too fast and fade eggs are dirt cheap from the khaamander.
Flamethrowers SHOULD feel weak if you are alone. It is a support gun. They are anti-cyst and extremely anti-fade. A squad of 4-5 marines with 2-3 shotguns, 1 flamethrower and a GL is a hit squad from hell.
Shotguns have a strange spread that leads to a lot of inconsistencies in hits
Fades...again, it's tricky. They used to be a lot better, but got nerfed pretty hard. All that may need to be done is increase the egg cost/further increase energy cost/ to compensate for adrenaline...or as suggested above, decrease speed of attacks. Not sure if that nerf was enough.
<!--quoteo(post=1971894:date=Sep 6 2012, 12:48 AM:name=Soulsafe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soulsafe @ Sep 6 2012, 12:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1971894"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->From the Alien's point of view:
Skulks: Not too much wrong with them, but trying to navigate corners gets a little difficult sometimes. Also, when there are bumps in the ceiling, it makes it really difficult to hang on. Try to cut down on the rafters attached to the ceilings so skulks don't just randomly let go while climbing.
...
Shotguns: As annoying as it is to get one shotted as a skulk, it is fair.
...
From the Marine's point of view:
Exosuits: If i get into an exosuit, I am unable to exit. Many times I have been in a game where four marines in exo's are holding down the powerless comm chair for 5 minutes, but unable to do anything to help it. Either have Exo's be able to build (of course having them interrupted when attacked) or be able to exit one. Even if i want to exit one to repair it, that marine is extremely vulnerable to a skulk two shot, so it seems fair to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As for aim and the AR, there is credibility to a widely experienced difficulty in shooting skulks relative to ns1. Something is odd thats for sure - whether its animations, hit reg, interp, performance, bad implementation of marine strafe who knows. Its effect shouldn't be that big of a factor though besides performance (hopefully performance will become a non-issue on launch)and i dont think it warrants autoaim or slow on hit! The stopping power mechanic you mentioned has also already been tried twice in the beta and both times removed because it caused player frustration without actually adding much of value.
From also reading your thoughts on lerk, i think the factor you are missing perhaps might be movement. Melee/range combat has a very unique style of movement that you don't pick up in 99% of shooters out there. There are also alot of energy problems with lerk currently, but once you get an understanding for how to dodge well, i think you'll start seeing spikes as being more useful than spores :).
Something like auto aim, however slight, is better suited to "cinematic games", like AvP. Games which are pretty much made to look good, and atmospheric, and represent some story. NS2 wants these things, as they are good to have, but first and foremost it is multiplayer only, and therefore competitive in nature. Auto aim in a competitive game is a big nono.
I think the reason many people have trouble killing skulks who use their surroundings is not because they are difficult to shoot, but because they still try and shoot them when they do it. There are some people who aim like robots and will never miss regardless of what the skulks do, but for most people, even those considered to be very good, this is not the case. Try it yourself. Find a good player, run at him, and as soon as he starts shooting at you, run up a wall. He will miss just like everyone else, because as soon as you get y axis displacement, the instinctive aiming mechanisms no longer work. However, what most players will do is continue to shoot, ignoring the fact that most of their bullets will miss. Most marine players will not stop firing at a skulk until it is dead or they are out of ammo, and this is what typically gets them killed. If a skulk is running up a wall or on a ceiling, he posses little danger to you, because he is being evasive. Expending your ammo during this time is pointless. Wait for him to become offensive again, because that is when their trajectory is far more predictable.
I think the reason many people have trouble killing skulks who use their surroundings is not because they are difficult to shoot, but because they still try and shoot them when they do it. There are some people who aim like robots and will never miss regardless of what the skulks do, but for most people, even those considered to be very good, this is not the case. Try it yourself. Find a good player, run at him, and as soon as he starts shooting at you, run up a wall. He will miss just like everyone else, because as soon as you get y axis displacement, the instinctive aiming mechanisms no longer work. However, what most players will do is continue to shoot, ignoring the fact that most of their bullets will miss. Most marine players will not stop firing at a skulk until it is dead or they are out of ammo, and this is what typically gets them killed. If a skulk is running up a wall or on a ceiling, he posses little danger to you, because he is being evasive. Expending your ammo during this time is pointless. Wait for him to become offensive again, because that is when their trajectory is far more predictable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*Cringe* Please don't bring AVP and auto-aim into this. Any fan of AVP2 was completely let down by the new AVP reboot...and this was partly because of QTEs and auto-aim. AVP2 had no auto-aim outside of a few crappy newb weapons that you could easily dodge/not to mention no ###### quick time events...and was much more skill based than that new pos reboot...ugh...hate that game. It pretty much ensured my guild would never play an AVP game ever again. Such consolized garbage.
For some reason I never hear anyone mention this when it comes to skulk v marine.
It boggles my mind that you don't see why autoaim in a PC game is not a good idea. First off it takes out the skill of aiming and leading your target. It is okay in a console game since the controls are much less precise, but with a mouse it's just unnecessary. I am sorry you are having a hard time hitting skulks, but it is probably because you're not entirely accustomed to ranged vs melee gameplay. I'd suggest watching some vods of people who know how to shoot skulks to get an idea about where to stand, how to move around to dodge and how they aim and lead their targets. The problem you have with killing skulks is entirely on you not being good enough yet.
And stopping power would not work at all in a game that is ranged vs melee for the most part. It might be okay in games like GoW, but that game is ranged vs ranged and as such cannot really be compared to NS2. Stopping power would make it entire impossible for aliens to get close to marines and bite them unless the weapons firerate/firepower were decreased. But even then how annoying would it be for a skulk to get slowed down each time they get hit? I would absolutely hate that. Imagine how the onos would become even more useless than it is today. It would make the aliens horrible to play!
For some reason I never hear anyone mention this when it comes to skulk v marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is especially true with activated AO, as it blends them in further.
That's right, we only got AO recently if I recall. That explains quite a bit.
Can we get a VR outline on skulks through some in-game mechanic? Upgrade for obs? Something you buy from the armory? We shouldn't have to turn down our graphics settings to aim at our opponents.
As for auto-aim and stopping power, these are fake tools put in because console FPS are ass to play with on a controller. Fake tools for fake gamers.
As for auto-aim and stopping power, these are fake tools put in because console FPS are ass to play with on a controller. Fake tools for fake gamers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wouldn't go as far as to call console gamers fake gamers, but yeah, FPS games are quite inferior on console and need tools in order to bring them even remotely up to par(even then, they aren't...and also not really competitive).
I also agree with LMGs perhaps being too accurate. Some very minor spread could help.
Edit: Sorry, I was wrong. NS2 rifle has a 3° spread, NS1 had 4°.
Stopped reading there.
Ok fine, here goes:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fades need less hp, less energy, and possibly be affected by stopping power like skulks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This would make fades terrible at their job: keeping the # of marines in check
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Onos: No real problems right now<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Being useless is a quite a problem.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Jetpacks: They render skulks and fades useless.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only if they're horrible players.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Flamethrowers: Whenever i use one i feel useless. They need to be buffed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They're good against skulks.
They aren't supposed to fry higher lifeforms in a few seconds, just hurt and sap their energy.
You should play the game more, perhaps try different servers, playing with the same crowd all the time can make it seem that certain things are OP.
Most of these suggestions can be condensed to "WAHHH IT'S TOO HARD", this is why they are bad.
This would make fades terrible at their job: keeping the # of marines in check<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By keeping number of marines in check you mean being able to take on 5 at once?
By keeping number of marines in check you mean being able to take on 5 at once?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can take on 5 skulks at once with my axe if they suck enough. Anyone can take on any number of less-skilled players; it's not a fade exclusive thing.
Ive seen this trend on some servers:
1) Everyone skulk rush until you have enough for fade.
2) 3 or 4 aliens all go fade at around the same time, some others go lerk.
3) GG.
The marines are trapped in base almost the whole time and spend all their PRes on Mines/Shotguns/Welders just trying to keep the IP's/Power nodes defended.
Yes it can be countered by a good commander and a team willing to follow the commanders orders but in public games that doesn't happen very often, the main problem is not the skulk rushing, but the fact that a single fade can easily take out 5-10 marines and then just blink away to regen is very annoying.
They should nerf fades slightly and buff Onos.
2) 3 or 4 aliens all go fade at around the same time, some others go lerk.
3) GG.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If the marines aren't dirt poor due to their incompetence, have a hive locked down and a decent amount of res, armor 1, weapons 1 and shotguns, travel in groups, the fades will have big problems.
Just 3 direct shotgun shots on a fade and goodnight.
And don't forget that once fade dies 50 res is lost.
But once a shotgunner dies, the next guy usually picks it up.
Things only get complicated when 3+ fades hit a Phase gate, this tends to cause problems with marines going one at a time, dying. That is what makes them seem "unbeatable OP game enders" at times.
Comms really need to start making use of an obs in every captured tech point in case of such a huge rush.
Just 3 direct shotgun shots on a fade and goodnight.
And don't forget that once fade dies 50 res is lost.
But once a shotgunner dies, the next guy usually picks it up.
Things only get complicated when 3+ fades hit a Phase gate, this tends to cause problems with marines going one at a time, dying. That is what makes them seem "unbeatable OP game enders" at times.
Comms really need to start making use of an obs in every captured tech point in case of such a huge rush.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I completely agree with you.
But the scenario I am describing is literally 5 minute fades, not just one, multiple. You would be hard pressed as the marines to be able to defend against the skulk rushing + have enough res/time to get armor 1 + weapons 1 researched before the fades get there. The Aliens main goal is to get fades BEFORE the marines are capable of defending against them.
Once the group of fades is in your base its game over, the power node/IP's are going down quick.
Luckily It doesn't happen very often, and kinda required a stacked alien team to pull it off but when it does happen for 5-6 games in a row its pretty annoying.