<!--quoteo(post=1977843:date=Sep 14 2012, 02:41 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Sep 14 2012, 02:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1977843"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In contrast, NS1 was won and lost by the commander. One could even say the commander meant too much, as he alone could determine the outcome of the game. That was true strategy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, nothing could be further from the truth.
If you want to complain about something in NS1, complain that the game was won or lost on the skill of the straight fade on the alien team. In high level ns1, 75% of the game came down to the marines being able to kill the alien player who went fade at the 4-5 minute mark.
I think the effect of the Comm in NS1 and NS2 is about the same. In both games he can make the team lose by not researching the right stuff... but he can not make a team win. In the end it is the guys on the ground that have to make things happen.
<!--quoteo(post=1977858:date=Sep 14 2012, 04:56 PM:name=Katana-)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Katana- @ Sep 14 2012, 04:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1977858"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you want to complain about something in NS1, complain that the game was won or lost on the skill of the straight fade on the alien team.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Haha, yeah. One of my favorite moments was early on in - I think? 2.0? - and we were up against a team that was a favorite over us (Co, I think). I happened to be in base to pick up a shotgun right as their first fade blinked in. Blew him up without him landing a swipe.
<!--quoteo(post=1977858:date=Sep 14 2012, 11:56 PM:name=Katana-)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Katana- @ Sep 14 2012, 11:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1977858"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, nothing could be further from the truth.
If you want to complain about something in NS1, complain that the game was won or lost on the skill of the straight fade on the alien team. In high level ns1, 75% of the game came down to the marines being able to kill the alien player who went fade at the 4-5 minute mark.
I think the effect of the Comm in NS1 and NS2 is about the same. In both games he can make the team lose by not researching the right stuff... but he can not make a team win. In the end it is the guys on the ground that have to make things happen.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Last time I checked, aliens didn't have a commander, so ye, their game probably would come down individual players, as there is nobody else for it to come down to. As for whether or not the marines could kill the fade, that was largely up to the commander. Whether or not the fade even needed to be killed was largely up the commander.
I get the feeling you either didn't have much experience with NS1, or the way I played NS1 in my much smaller community was very different. In my NS1 experience. Commanding was very difficult, and very tactical. I almost always lost as commander. Inexperienced commanders almost always lost. However, the same people would always win as commander, regardless of their team.
<!--quoteo(post=1977852:date=Sep 14 2012, 11:50 PM:name=paella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (paella @ Sep 14 2012, 11:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1977852"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is absolutely not true. At all.
Also you're using ratings to make it seem as if there are objective measures of skill (there aren't) and also as if you're not just making naked assertions (you are). Finally, you're entirely omitting teamwork as a consideration.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Was this sarcasm? It doesn't sound like sarcasm, but God what else could it be. You state that I make naked assertions and begin your post with "This is absolutely not true. At all". Nah, this is definitely sarcasm.
<!--quoteo(post=1977877:date=Sep 15 2012, 12:41 AM:name=paella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (paella @ Sep 15 2012, 12:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1977877"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Haha, yeah. One of my favorite moments was early on in - I think? 2.0? - and we were up against a team that was a favorite over us (Co, I think). I happened to be in base to pick up a shotgun right as their first fade blinked in. Blew him up without him landing a swipe.
And this is why veil is my favorite map. As for the claim that the game is plenty strategic in comp play, that is little consolation to me and the all players who do not want to invest the massive amounts of time required to play comp. Many games manage to be quite satisfying on a strategic level for both casual and competitive and I certainly dont think that a situation that favors the latter over the former is in any way a satisfying state of affairs.
<!--quoteo(post=1977894:date=Sep 14 2012, 04:15 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Sep 14 2012, 04:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1977894"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I get the feeling you either didn't have much experience with NS1, or the way I played NS1 in my much smaller community was very different. In my NS1 experience. Commanding was very difficult, and very tactical. I almost always lost as commander. Inexperienced commanders almost always lost. However, the same people would always win as commander, regardless of their team.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've been playing NS1 since 3.0 beta 5, and on and off competitively since 3.1, most of my experience comes from PUGs.
I am talking about competitive play. That means that every one in the game knows how to play, and only needs limited strategic guidelines in order to work as a team toward an objective.
I don't under stand how you can even come to the conclusion that the comm is more important then the players on the ground. The com doesn't even have a way to directly effect the game. If the players on the ground are getting steam rolled the comm is literally powerless.
A bad comm is the quickest way to lose, but no amount of commanding skill will win.
You could get the best commander in all of NS history, and pair him/her with 0 talent new players, and that team would get steam rolled by a team of high level players with even the most mediocre commander.
<!--quoteo(post=1977913:date=Sep 14 2012, 06:48 PM:name=Katana-)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Katana- @ Sep 14 2012, 06:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1977913"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You could get the best commander in all of NS history, and pair him/her with 0 talent new players, and that team would get steam rolled by a team of high level players with even the most mediocre commander.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not even. Get enough skill imbalance going and the LMGs will just walk into the hive and camp it; skulks will eat the IPs. I guess the commander still has to drop ammo, but even the most confused commanders will often figure out how to do that.
imbalan I mean I don't even know what to say to you. You played a lot on one particular pub server and I guess you felt super cool commanding there?
I commanded and played marine, skulk, and fade* for several seasons of CAL-NS, upper division. I also put a ton of time into pub play on a variety of servers, including admin staff on one of the more popular early servers (ArsClan). So I know from my own experience that, while commanding could definitely be rewarding, it wasn't as important as you seem to think it was, and is honestly pretty comparable to ns2 commanding.
Your contention also just.. doesn't pass the laugh test. I don't care how awesome your "strats" are, if your dudes get eaten by skulks it's not going to work.
Of course most pub strats that people got excited about were things like "relocate to <whatever>, yaaaay!" which ok sure is fun, but would get instantly destroyed by a coordinated alien team. The real, basic strategy of ns - for both sides - is "pressure res".
Finally, I already addressed your made-up "ratings" etc.
*I would like to stress that I was never amazing, just competent enough to get by as a mid-level clan player.
Comments
Yeah, nothing could be further from the truth.
If you want to complain about something in NS1, complain that the game was won or lost on the skill of the straight fade on the alien team. In high level ns1, 75% of the game came down to the marines being able to kill the alien player who went fade at the 4-5 minute mark.
I think the effect of the Comm in NS1 and NS2 is about the same. In both games he can make the team lose by not researching the right stuff... but he can not make a team win. In the end it is the guys on the ground that have to make things happen.
Haha, yeah. One of my favorite moments was early on in - I think? 2.0? - and we were up against a team that was a favorite over us (Co, I think). I happened to be in base to pick up a shotgun right as their first fade blinked in. Blew him up without him landing a swipe.
Felt pretty awesome.
If you want to complain about something in NS1, complain that the game was won or lost on the skill of the straight fade on the alien team. In high level ns1, 75% of the game came down to the marines being able to kill the alien player who went fade at the 4-5 minute mark.
I think the effect of the Comm in NS1 and NS2 is about the same. In both games he can make the team lose by not researching the right stuff... but he can not make a team win. In the end it is the guys on the ground that have to make things happen.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Last time I checked, aliens didn't have a commander, so ye, their game probably would come down individual players, as there is nobody else for it to come down to. As for whether or not the marines could kill the fade, that was largely up to the commander. Whether or not the fade even needed to be killed was largely up the commander.
I get the feeling you either didn't have much experience with NS1, or the way I played NS1 in my much smaller community was very different. In my NS1 experience. Commanding was very difficult, and very tactical. I almost always lost as commander. Inexperienced commanders almost always lost. However, the same people would always win as commander, regardless of their team.
<!--quoteo(post=1977852:date=Sep 14 2012, 11:50 PM:name=paella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (paella @ Sep 14 2012, 11:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1977852"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is absolutely not true. At all.
Also you're using ratings to make it seem as if there are objective measures of skill (there aren't) and also as if you're not just making naked assertions (you are). Finally, you're entirely omitting teamwork as a consideration.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Was this sarcasm? It doesn't sound like sarcasm, but God what else could it be. You state that I make naked assertions and begin your post with "This is absolutely not true. At all". Nah, this is definitely sarcasm.
<!--quoteo(post=1977877:date=Sep 15 2012, 12:41 AM:name=paella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (paella @ Sep 15 2012, 12:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1977877"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Haha, yeah. One of my favorite moments was early on in - I think? 2.0? - and we were up against a team that was a favorite over us (Co, I think). I happened to be in base to pick up a shotgun right as their first fade blinked in. Blew him up without him landing a swipe.
Felt pretty awesome.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cool story bro.
I've been playing NS1 since 3.0 beta 5, and on and off competitively since 3.1, most of my experience comes from PUGs.
I am talking about competitive play. That means that every one in the game knows how to play, and only needs limited strategic guidelines in order to work as a team toward an objective.
I don't under stand how you can even come to the conclusion that the comm is more important then the players on the ground. The com doesn't even have a way to directly effect the game. If the players on the ground are getting steam rolled the comm is literally powerless.
A bad comm is the quickest way to lose, but no amount of commanding skill will win.
You could get the best commander in all of NS history, and pair him/her with 0 talent new players, and that team would get steam rolled by a team of high level players with even the most mediocre commander.
Not even. Get enough skill imbalance going and the LMGs will just walk into the hive and camp it; skulks will eat the IPs. I guess the commander still has to drop ammo, but even the most confused commanders will often figure out how to do that.
imbalan I mean I don't even know what to say to you. You played a lot on one particular pub server and I guess you felt super cool commanding there?
I commanded and played marine, skulk, and fade* for several seasons of CAL-NS, upper division. I also put a ton of time into pub play on a variety of servers, including admin staff on one of the more popular early servers (ArsClan). So I know from my own experience that, while commanding could definitely be rewarding, it wasn't as important as you seem to think it was, and is honestly pretty comparable to ns2 commanding.
Your contention also just.. doesn't pass the laugh test. I don't care how awesome your "strats" are, if your dudes get eaten by skulks it's not going to work.
Of course most pub strats that people got excited about were things like "relocate to <whatever>, yaaaay!" which ok sure is fun, but would get instantly destroyed by a coordinated alien team. The real, basic strategy of ns - for both sides - is "pressure res".
Finally, I already addressed your made-up "ratings" etc.
*I would like to stress that I was never amazing, just competent enough to get by as a mid-level clan player.