Skulk Improvements

Alpha16Alpha16 Join Date: 2012-09-14 Member: 159268Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Xenocide, Wall-jumping</div>Today I was trying to get multiple commanders throughout multiple matches to grab Xenocide as I am fairly decent with it. No commander got it, and instead told me it was useless. I believe the reasons for it being useless is that it punishes the aliens for using it by having long respawn times. Maybe to fix this, you could make Xenocide a skill that can be unlocked on a crag hive (must choose Xenocide over Regeneration and Carapace) + require a 2nd hive?

When using silence as a skulk and you attempt to wall-jump, you have no sound indication for succeeding a wall-jump. I suggest putting in some sort of visual indicator to the player that they have successfully walljumped, such as short-pulsed blueish glow around the edges of the screen? I don't know but there should be something.

Cool game.

Comments

  • BitcrusherBitcrusher Join Date: 2012-08-28 Member: 156628Members
    Xenocide is okay if you manage to jump into a big pack of marines but other upgrades are more worthwhile before it IMO. There is a small delay before you explode so you its not 100% :D.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1977409:date=Sep 13 2012, 10:48 PM:name=Alpha16)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Alpha16 @ Sep 13 2012, 10:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1977409"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Today I was trying to get multiple commanders throughout multiple matches to grab Xenocide as I am fairly decent with it. No commander got it, and instead told me it was useless. I believe the reasons for it being useless is that it punishes the aliens for using it by having long respawn times. Maybe to fix this, you could make Xenocide a skill that can be unlocked on a crag hive (must choose Xenocide over Regeneration and Carapace) + require a 2nd hive?

    When using silence as a skulk and you attempt to wall-jump, you have no sound indication for succeeding a wall-jump. I suggest putting in some sort of visual indicator to the player that they have successfully walljumped, such as short-pulsed blueish glow around the edges of the screen? I don't know but there should be something.

    Cool game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Your good with xenocide? I didn't know that was possible. Tell us more
  • spawnehspawneh Join Date: 2003-11-11 Member: 22480Members
    Xenocide also always comes in at a point where the aliens have usually won anyway. The fact that it requires 3 hives pretty much makes it a novelty upgrade. Since aliens are expected to win against full tech marines with 2 hives (due to some maps having only 4 tech points).
  • AurOn2AurOn2 COOKIES&#33; FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS&#33; Australia Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
    Problem with xenocide, is that you can't kill a level 0 armor marine with it, let alone 5.
    It needs to be more good in that YOU ARE KILLING YOURSELF AND LOSING ALOT OF RESOURCES ON SPAWN TO USE IT.
    And the fact its 40 res AND hive 3, is just a hammer for the nails to the grave.
  • twilitebluetwiliteblue bug stalker Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited September 2012
    Xenocide was buffed in build 219 (from light damage to normal damage). It is possible to kill a slightly injured Marine with level 1 armor upgrade. It also has a massive splash radius, so two Skulks using Xenocide together can possibly kill a group of Marines.

    More wall-jump improvements are definitely on the table.
  • antacidantacid Join Date: 2007-08-07 Member: 61821Members, NS2 Playtester
    Xenocide was a key devastating final ability for NS1.

    As for NS2, it simply needs a damage buff.
  • xDragonxDragon Join Date: 2012-04-04 Member: 149948Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    Xenocide in NS2 does the same damage as Xeno in NS1. Arguably the bigger problem is that switch weapons/biting cancels the xeno.
  • Onii-chanOnii-chan Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7164Members
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Xenocide was a key devastating final ability for NS1.
    As for NS2, it simply needs a damage buff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This.
    IIRC, a direct Xeno hit in NS1 killed a marine that had Armor 0 or 1.
  • ImbalanxdImbalanxd Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
    When the aliens have three hives and xenocide, they most likely have no upgrades left to research and at least 3 hives. That means enough resources to drop any life form any time. Why would anyone even be a skulk at that point?
  • RobustPenguinRobustPenguin Join Date: 2012-08-17 Member: 155719Members
    Does xeno do decent damage to an exo?
  • Alpha16Alpha16 Join Date: 2012-09-14 Member: 159268Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1977651:date=Sep 14 2012, 09:29 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Sep 14 2012, 09:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1977651"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When the aliens have three hives and xenocide, they most likely have no upgrades left to research and at least 3 hives. That means enough resources to drop any life form any time. Why would anyone even be a skulk at that point?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Ever since fade lost its ability to strafe and such using blink, my skill with it has deteriorated. I play best as a skulk or a gorge. (I would mention lerk as well, but I find that it is fairly hard to do a lot of damage with it, in my opinion at least.)
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    The problem with Xeno is it requires a separate upgrade and (used) to not do enough damage.

    It's main benefit in NS1 was to spam Skulks into the fray, denying Res-for-Kills (RFK), and still inflicting damage. When you have the choice between assured damage (Xeno) and more but difficult damage (Leap+Bite) Skulks would opt for Xeno softening them up and maybe getting a kill. Plus, denying the RFK was a definite plus.

    I always used to be able to get at least 1 kill with Xeno. First Xeno, Leap, and get a bite in before exploding for enough damage to kill my target. And every once in s awhile completely wipe 3-5 injured Marines.


    I haven't tried in the 219 patch, but it used to not do enough damage and with No-Res-While-Dead (we need a better acronym) there are too many downsides for it to be the human-wave method for Skulks. Coupled with the older loooooong Alien spawn queues, and individual tech requirement (NS1 you got ti for free once Hive3 was built), no one used it.

    I'll have to experiment in 219 at bit to see if it's back in a viable position.
  • Cee Colon SlashCee Colon Slash Join Date: 2012-05-25 Member: 152581Members
    The current alien spawn time system is the really punitive factor for not researching or using xenocide. Who wants to wait 18 seconds to respawn?

    I would toss xenocide in favour of a new third-tier skulk ability: perhaps something as simple as adding an attack at the end of leap, though this would only be of use to new players as experienced players have already figured out the timing of leap+bite.

    As for wall jump, I've never understood how a skulk can break Newtonian laws of physics simply by jumping off a wall. Why get any kind of speed bonus at all for executing this totally capricious dynamic.
  • VitdomVitdom Join Date: 2012-04-30 Member: 151345Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited September 2012
    I think xenocide is perfect as it is in NS2. No dmg buff needed. Jump into a pack of marines and most certainly >50% of them will die. Commanders not getting xenocide is because of, as you said, many have the illusion that xenocide is useless, although it is extremely effective if you know how to use it vs bite.

    I ask for xenocide in almost every game when the Kharra has 3 hives, because it is so effective, but I rarely get my request met, but when I do, the marines says gg.
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Xeno is a novelty upgrade that I only upgrade once the game is effectively won. Due to the alien respawn system and no PRes while dead, its highly counter-productive to encourage your skulks to die via xeno.
  • rantologyrantology Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143750Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    Xenocide is and always will be bad as long as No p-Res While Dead is in the game.
  • 1dominator11dominator1 Join Date: 2010-11-19 Member: 75011Members
    It does laughable damage atm. I can only see it being of use by a very coordinated group of skulks, and even then it would be very situational
  • ImbalanxdImbalanxd Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1977733:date=Sep 14 2012, 08:15 PM:name=Vitdom)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vitdom @ Sep 14 2012, 08:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1977733"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think xenocide is perfect as it is in NS2. No dmg buff needed. Jump into a pack of marines and most certainly >50% of them will die. Commanders not getting xenocide is because of, as you said, many have the illusion that xenocide is useless, although it is extremely effective if you know how to use it vs bite.

    I ask for xenocide in almost every game when the Kharra has 3 hives, because it is so effective, but I rarely get my request met, but when I do, the marines says gg.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yep, definitely some illusions going on here...
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Xeno definitely needs some assistance at least in the respawn department. It needs to make you respawn very quickly, or otherwise it needs to be extremely powerful to justify the tradeoff of both time and res.
  • jkflipflopjkflipflop Join Date: 2010-10-13 Member: 74423Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1977927:date=Sep 14 2012, 05:15 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Sep 14 2012, 05:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1977927"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Xeno definitely needs some assistance at least in the respawn department. It needs to make you respawn very quickly, or otherwise it needs to be extremely powerful to justify the tradeoff of both time and res.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    I agree. Xeno needs it's damage jumped way up to make the investment worthwhile.
  • NeoRussiaNeoRussia Join Date: 2012-08-04 Member: 154743Members
    edited September 2012
    I don't think it's possible to balance xeno when you gain no p-res while dead. Either it will be too strong and leave the marines really annoyed as they can't do anything about it, it's all just about giving up your p-res, or it's a poor investment like it is now. I think it could work if they kept everything as it is now but made you go into the spawn queue regardless of wave spawn and maybe either have less spawntime or no spawntime at all.
  • RobustPenguinRobustPenguin Join Date: 2012-08-17 Member: 155719Members
    Team investment to get xeno. Buy 2 hives: 90 res, buy leap 25 res buy xeno 40 res. So 155 res total.

    Team investment for say, armour 3: Buy armoury 10 res, buy upgrade station 40 res, then 20, 30, 40 res. So thats 140 res total. Does xeno really feel like its worth more investment than armour 3?
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