Some Com Observations/ Tips
3DKnight
Join Date: 2002-11-28 Member: 10181Members
Join Date: 2002-11-28 Member: 10181Members
So i try and Comm whenever possible. Just this lunch we had an awesome game as marine, where we were balance with 2 points each. They would loose a hive, they would knock our power down. Halfway through the match I had to relocate our entire base very quickly after they bum rushed the power in our main, and took everything out. They did it a second time at our backup, which caused me to pop 2 more spawns at crossroads, jump out the chair, race over and help build them again. We finally got a few dual exos with some awesome welders and turned it around. Kept an exo in each base, and kept a close eye on the third.
Anyway, back to the topic. Just random thoughts here:
HUMAN
Medpack spam
Once you are past the mid point in game and have 4 res nodes, you can pretty muchsupport your troops with constant medpack spam. I had a dual exo and a JP welder push from my base right to their hive with about 20 res spent in medpacks. At level 3 armour it was very easy to keep them both alive. I had very little to spend res on, so most my tasks were spamming medpacks, beaconing and giving waypoints. This was pretty much a big factor in our turnaround, that allowed for a sustained pressure push on two different locations. Exo would creep up, i spam 5 medpacks behind exo, exo woudl creep up, ect. It made it very hard for aliens to turn the game around.
I really think this needs a drop cap, or a second or two cooldown. I've been in games where i just spammed the whole floor with medpacks and ammo. A little unfair i think.
Best Anti-Fade: JP with a shotgun in base, just need one of these and your base is secure. After two blasts, the fade will usually retreat. If you die, pick up shotgun, spend 10 on jp. I almost always go JP first.
Shotguns first!vNo reason not to rush these anymore, Shotguns + mines = 2 secure bases. And please don't group your mines close together, waste of res.
ALIEN
Basically hold out and harass until Fade.
Unless you are going to a risky rush tactic, no reason not to go Crag first. put two of these in your hive and even 2 marines aren't a big deal to rush back for, early game. I also crag every resource out of the main paths of marines after second hive. Carapace best early upgrade against level 1 weapons.
Cyst creep. Please skulks. protect the cyst chain. After you have 2 solid hive, double that chain up.
Setup a mini forward base between your two hives around the res tower. Throw down eggs as needed to force spawn points. THIS IS A MAJOR plus for aliens, use this as much as possible for to your advantage.
Whips kinda blow, but set at least one up near your crag, res tower when you have money, will slow the marines down and give you time to direct defense.
Use the SPIKES, almost never seen them used. I've trapped a lot of JPers in them ;)
Explode those cysts if you hear a marine knifing one.
Anyway, back to the topic. Just random thoughts here:
HUMAN
Medpack spam
Once you are past the mid point in game and have 4 res nodes, you can pretty muchsupport your troops with constant medpack spam. I had a dual exo and a JP welder push from my base right to their hive with about 20 res spent in medpacks. At level 3 armour it was very easy to keep them both alive. I had very little to spend res on, so most my tasks were spamming medpacks, beaconing and giving waypoints. This was pretty much a big factor in our turnaround, that allowed for a sustained pressure push on two different locations. Exo would creep up, i spam 5 medpacks behind exo, exo woudl creep up, ect. It made it very hard for aliens to turn the game around.
I really think this needs a drop cap, or a second or two cooldown. I've been in games where i just spammed the whole floor with medpacks and ammo. A little unfair i think.
Best Anti-Fade: JP with a shotgun in base, just need one of these and your base is secure. After two blasts, the fade will usually retreat. If you die, pick up shotgun, spend 10 on jp. I almost always go JP first.
Shotguns first!vNo reason not to rush these anymore, Shotguns + mines = 2 secure bases. And please don't group your mines close together, waste of res.
ALIEN
Basically hold out and harass until Fade.
Unless you are going to a risky rush tactic, no reason not to go Crag first. put two of these in your hive and even 2 marines aren't a big deal to rush back for, early game. I also crag every resource out of the main paths of marines after second hive. Carapace best early upgrade against level 1 weapons.
Cyst creep. Please skulks. protect the cyst chain. After you have 2 solid hive, double that chain up.
Setup a mini forward base between your two hives around the res tower. Throw down eggs as needed to force spawn points. THIS IS A MAJOR plus for aliens, use this as much as possible for to your advantage.
Whips kinda blow, but set at least one up near your crag, res tower when you have money, will slow the marines down and give you time to direct defense.
Use the SPIKES, almost never seen them used. I've trapped a lot of JPers in them ;)
Explode those cysts if you hear a marine knifing one.
Comments
Actually, theres equal or more benefits to Shift hive first. Unless you're going to rush a second hive, a shift spawning eggs is invaluable to a larger alien team. Your team is useless if it takes over 30-45 sec just to spawn in after a bad run-in with the marines. Coupled with celerity to start = getting to their res nodes faster and giving your own base backup faster. Just my 2 cents though
It depends immensely on the skill level of your team. This latest patch I would say go crag since the skulk is so appalling. However with a good team shift is superior for area coverage and dropping eggs using a shift in more useful locations (double in veil is a good example).
crags will also protect eggs from getting killed.
I don't think i would use extra eggs early game because with 3 res nodes and saving for a hive, and placing cysts, and getting upgrades, i'm literally counting the res ticks until i can use them for something, this goes double if you loose an early res tower, or if one sneaks in and kills your shell.
Crag hive - cyst cyst cyst cyst - res tower - cyst cyst cyst cyst - res tower - crag at main - wait for 40 res 2nd hive - shell - cara - res tower
that's 130ish i resources right there. I justify a crag because it just keeps everything alive against a base rush from 2 marines. a shift will go down in a few seconds under sustained fire on its own, damaging your economy a bit.
I've gone shade second for good success, cloaking everything really makes it a pain for lone commando marines to do anything.
Marines can place 6 mines around their base and be relatively safe from skulk rushes for 30 personal res. Crags are much better at defending from a rush than a shift imo before your first hive.
Aliens have a lot of sustained res sinks with their cyst chains, you are always using up resources early game. spending an extra 20 for extra eggs at one hive is only useful against a rush, which a crag can make pretty much invalid if your skulks are always scouting and return to defend.
e.g. Aliens on docking, tram start. It's extremely beneficial to go shift so you can put a shift in either gen (to protect the 2nd hive location) or around ball court/maintenance to harass locker rooms. It saves aliens a good 20-25 sex travel time from their spawn in tram to ball court and that is a HUGE benefit. It's almost like a counter to marines' phase gates. They have PG, aliens have shift+celerity. Not completely, but you probably know what I mean.
On other maps, such as tram or summit, a shift isn't as beneficial necessarily - in my opinion.
A crag hive is nice, especially after the patch, but silence and feign death are also quite under-appreciated imo. Good players rely on sound significantly, and taking that out puts a lot of mental pressure on the marine team to always check corners/ceilings etc.
The Fade availability can turn an entire game around for you, and is the first chance aliens usually get to push back against marines with mines and shotguns.
My view is, what will ENSURE I will get blink fades at a reasonable time. Crag has a far better chance than shift.
Crags are also a godsend for your gorges, if they are caught, they can retreat to a crag at a middle res tower, with heal spray and a crag, they are very hard to kill by a sneak marine.
Shift can be viable, but it takes a much more skilled team... maybe clans will do this, but with a pub group it does up the risk. If you want a faster travel time with a larger map, go leap first instead of blink :p
Fades are powerful for sure, but they're by no means invincible. A couple of good shotgunners can easily dominate a mediocre fade - if not necessarily kill it, at least make it so it's not effective at harassing or killing others. Jetpacks make everything additionally difficult :-) .
What I'm saying is, I don't think "hold out until fades" is THE alien strategy. It often works out that way, but games can still be won in other ways.
Fades are powerful for sure, but they're by no means invincible. A couple of good shotgunners can easily dominate a mediocre fade - if not necessarily kill it, at least make it so it's not effective at harassing or killing others. Jetpacks make everything additionally difficult :-) .
What I'm saying is, I don't think "hold out until fades" is THE alien strategy. It often works out that way, but games can still be won in other ways.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What else do you have? Lerk is a support at best, gorge isnt a combat unit and onos is awful. You fade spam or you lose in pubs...
ok so if youre the alien com, and you see a rush headed somewhere, who gets there first a celerity skulk or a carapace skulk?
well if you have a good team, you will see the rush before the halfway mark, or a team member will call it out. You can also slow them down with infestation spikes. if they get to your base without you spotting them? your shift is dead anyway... you try to kill two crags as marines? with skulks jumping? hell can't even kill an egg very will with a crag nearby.
for main hive defense, cara+crag is better than shift with more eggs that will get gunned down anyway :p
well that's what i mentioned in my OP. 1 JPer with a shotty can secure your base.
But out in the field? you are saying 2 <b>skilled</b> players, with 20 res guns, battling one <b>average</b> 50 res player should win ;) However throw in a free skulk support and a good fade, and you lost 40 res on marine side ;) plus fade can blink out and ambush another lone marine. They add all the power to even the playing field.
for main hive defense, cara+crag is better than shift with more eggs that will get gunned down anyway :p<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
-why waste res on spikes when skulks should be stopping marines from moving in on your territory.
-so youre saying the shift is dead but a shell.. somehow escapes being targeted? if im a marine in the hive early im going straight of the carapace shell.
-you no longer have to worry about crags at the hive
etcetcetc
Because that would be nerfing it into the ground.
It seems to me that the best alien strategy is something like fast hive, fast leap, with heavy hydra defence, then get carapace first because the leap makes up for the lack of celerity and skulks with leap and carapace are just really really strong. Of course this opens you up to the risk of losing a hive or a res node and being pretty screwed, but the strongest strategies must always involve risk.
It's more of a defensive play I guess but I think that its OK to let the marines dominate the map for the first few minutes of the game as long as you can effectively split off a couple skulks to hunt res nodes throughout the game, celerity is not necessary to do this.
I've been commander very few times, but I found a shift near the second hive location a good idea. Gorges building it are able to spam healing, and your skulks can spawn right at that location even before the hive is built and help secure the zone.
It would be nice tbh. Medpack spam is currently a bit too good I feel, theres little for the commander to actually be doing in this game ,its very low APM so as comm you can spend most of the time hovering over marines and just spam medpacks (s mouse 1) faster than 3 skulks can damage a marine, a bit dodgy in my view...
No, drop meds are something that add alot of depth to ns. They add an interesting skill-based system while also adding dynamic strategic depth due to their cost. If they arn't accomplishing the latter, numbers can be tweaked very easily.
I think med cost to effectiveness is currently in a very good place. They are powerful if used accurately and judiciously. On the other hand, they <b>will</b> screw you over big time if you use them anywhere near constantly.
Super late game med spam is not a problem. The opportunity costs are always there e.g. tres equipment.
And yea, whips blow. They are so slow off infestation. Limited range and limited mobility = glorified hp meatshield buffer.