Wilson's Crosshair pack for b221+
rantology
Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143750Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143750Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
Comments
221 is coming out soon (today?) and im sure you know that you force problems with the way to install crosshairs in the described way.
Ah sorry Max (and depara, if that was aimed at me), the way I understood it in the dev Q&A the crosshair files would be exempt from the consistency checks, thought I was being clever by editing the .dds files instead. I will upload them to the steam workshop when the build comes out :s I suppose I will take this post down in the meantime too.
rantology, you didn't need to edit the lua files before either. I guess someone hacked in a crosshair for melee weapons that way, but it was always available through the .dds files.
Your original crosshairs didn't have alien crosshairs by default though, right? Or am I just a derp? I edited the .lua because that was the first method I discovered to give myself alien crosshairs, only recently figured out how to tweak the .dds files to do the same thing. Since your default ones did not have the alien parts included I figured I would edit/share modified versions I made of yours that did.
Ultimately I guess both efforts were in vain though as it doesnt sound like you can have custom crosshairs at all on servers that have the consistency checks on them. Which silly(imo) to have consistency checks for the crosshairs at all- this is something I see no harm in giving free reign mod-ability wise. I can't really think of an advantage one could make from editing the crosshairs.
If I understood it correctly, I don't think crosshairs are checked by default (neither are any textures) but if an admin changed that to block custom textures then you wouldn't be able to join the server if you had just replaced the .dds files. It seems like if you use the steam workshop method then it will just disable the crosshairs rather than preventing you from joining the server entirely.
and I apologize for being a derp, I didn't think your packs included the alien crosshairs! but it's good that max popped up and clarified that the crosshairs are not actually exempt from the checks, so something productive came out of this thread I guess. =p I hope he comes back and reads what you said about the steam workshop spam, I think that's a valid concern.
Create a mod with the name of the xhair, type cosmetic?
The output folder "name of the mod" with a subfolder "ui" in which i put the crosshair.dds files?
____________
edit:
Just tried it out, test mod doesnt do anything and publish is greyed out.
Also I don't want to try to remember all servers that force diarrhea xhairs.
Hopefully most server owners will have the good sense to turn consistency off altogether.
Amusingly, I doubt the competitive community will ever use consistency in its current form, even though we were the ones requesting some sort of consistency check in the first place. In that sense we will be no better off with a consistency check, than we are right now without one.
View bob scalars, crosshair selector, fov slider, low health effect tickbox, post-processing screen-fx tickbox, etc...
So we going to see many man many new servers.
The current serverbrowser is ok for the current serverammount, but it will be horrible if 200 new servers are up.
So, the game need an functional serverbrowser (maybe fsfod version). If its in the game, 1 popular mod dont need anymore.
Put a set of crosshairs into the game. 2nd popular mod dont need anymore.
Then the serveradmins can force consistency check and everyone is happy.
Small sidenode: Its funny that i only saw complains about consistency checks from competitive players.
Yes this is exactly correct. My concern is seeing a lot of reports of people not being able to join a server because they have modified the NS2 install files. If you modify the installed files, we have no way of reverting to the proper files to allow you to connect to the server. However, if the modification is in a mod, we can disable that mod and allow you to join. It was never our intention for people to install mods like this, but because there has not been a mod installation system it's become the unofficial standard during the beta.
<!--quoteo(post=1983712:date=Sep 27 2012, 08:14 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Sep 27 2012, 08:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1983712"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hopefully most server owners will have the good sense to turn consistency off altogether.
Amusingly, I doubt the competitive community will ever use consistency in its current form, even though we were the ones requesting some sort of consistency check in the first place. In that sense we will be no better off with a consistency check, than we are right now without one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can you explain this in more detail (keep in mind that Workshop and consistency checking are different topics)? What we have implemented is basically identical to how the Source engine performs consistency checking, so I would be interested to hear why you think this method will not be successful.
So we going to see many man many new servers.
The current serverbrowser is ok for the current serverammount, but it will be horrible if 200 new servers are up.
So, the game need an functional serverbrowser (maybe fsfod version). If its in the game, 1 popular mod dont need anymore.
Put a set of crosshairs into the game. 2nd popular mod dont need anymore.
Then the serveradmins can force consistency check and everyone is happy.
Small sidenode: Its funny that i only saw complains about consistency checks from competitive players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im glad we got consistency checks now its been a long time coming. It would be nice tho if i could still use menu mod.
It's unclear to me if you are able to allow specific files to be modded while blocking others in the same category (for example, allowing some textures to be changed but not others). I also think it is important for the default settings to be a sort of standard that blocks all cheats while allowing other mods. I think admins will be more likely to leave things on default and if they allow material hacks or disallow crosshairs it will be a pain to find a good server to play on.
Don't get me wrong, I'd like a no-hassle consistency check. Unfortunately, this is not it. If you give me the choice between playing hassle-free with innocuous mods without consistency or having loads of hassle even when I just want to change my crosshair, I'll go with the former every time.
<!--quoteo(post=1983746:date=Sep 27 2012, 05:36 PM:name=Max)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Max @ Sep 27 2012, 05:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1983746"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can you explain this in more detail (keep in mind that Workshop and consistency checking are different topics)? What we have implemented is basically identical to how the Source engine performs consistency checking, so I would be interested to hear why you think this method will not be successful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's no way for the players to tell which server will allow which files. Having to spend minutes checking if everything works every time I join a server doesn't sound like much fun at all. Joining one server only to find out it doesn't allow crosshairs, then joining another server only to find it doesn't allow instant hud, then joining another server only to find out it doesn't allow removing the celerity blur effect -- will be very frustrating.
Then there's the problem that most, if not all, of the "necessary" mods require lua files to be unchecked -- which currently means you may as well not enforce consistency at all since all lua-related exploits, benign or otherwise, can be enabled through one file.
I can guarantee you that there will be a lot of upset people posting on the forum after this build is released, when they find out they can't use menumod, for example.
Then there's the problem that most, if not all, of the "necessary" mods require lua files to be unchecked -- which currently means you may as well not enforce consistency at all since all lua-related exploits, benign or otherwise, can be enabled through one file.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Head The On Hit Nail The.
Re-arrange to form a proper sentence if you need to.....
Although the last bit, the lua files will be allowed as a mod whitelist, so 'lua' files could theoretically still be disabled, and the LUA files in the mod would still have to be consistent too.
There's no way for the players to tell which server will allow which files. Having to spend minutes checking if everything works every time I join a server doesn't sound like much fun at all. Joining one server only to find out it doesn't allow crosshairs, then joining another server only to find it doesn't allow instant hud, then joining another server only to find out it doesn't allow removing the celerity blur effect -- will be very frustrating.
Then there's the problem that most, if not all, of the "necessary" mods require lua files to be unchecked -- which currently means you may as well not enforce consistency at all since all lua-related exploits, benign or otherwise, can be enabled through one file.
I can guarantee you that there will be a lot of upset people posting on the forum after this build is released, when they find out they can't use menumod, for example.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, displaying this information in the server browser will be important, but this is not an issue with the consistency checking system, it's an issue with the UI.
I agree that you cannot white list individual Lua files without effectively opening yourself up to any Lua modifications. However, again I don't think what we're discussing are limitations of the engine and how our mod system and consistency checking work.
If you are playing Counter-Strike and you feel that code level modifications are necessary to make the game playable, you're not going to be join any servers that enforce consistency on Client.dll and Server.dll. The difference is that in the case of Counter-Strike these modifications would be difficult to make, since you would need to replace the DLL with your own custom version that intercepted some calls and forwarded others to the original DLL. With Spark we've made the modification process much easier, but the concerns about gaining unfair advantages through code modifications are exactly the same.
Our long term plan for client-side code modifications that can be trusted is to have special types of mods that run in a "sandboxed" mode. In this sandbox mode the mod would have restricted access to the game state which would make something like a UI modification possible, but something like an aimbot not possible.
It's unclear to me if you are able to allow specific files to be modded while blocking others in the same category (for example, allowing some textures to be changed but not others). I also think it is important for the default settings to be a sort of standard that blocks all cheats while allowing other mods. I think admins will be more likely to leave things on default and if they allow material hacks or disallow crosshairs it will be a pain to find a good server to play on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes you can do that. Here is an example configuration:
{
"check": [ "game_setup.xml", "*.lua", "*.fx", "*.screenfx", "*.surface_shader", "*.fxh", "*.render_setup", "*.shader_template" ],
"ignore": [ "shaders/DarkVision.fx" ]
}
This will make sure game_setup.xml, all lua, fx, screefx, surface_shader, fxh, render_setup and shader_template files pass consistency, with the exception of the DarkVision.fx shader (which is the alien vision mode).
It's pretty similar to the Source system, which you can see documented <a href="https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Pure_Servers" target="_blank">here</a>.
That sounds like a good plan.
Look, what I guess I've been trying to say all along is this: NS2 is still in beta and you guys are constantly working on improving aspects of it. You've come a long way, but there's still a lot of work left to be done. I assume you're going add more functionality to the server browser and options menu eventually, for example, which would make fsfod's menumod superfluous.
Until that happens though, until the game is in a state where we don't need these mods anymore, I think adding a consistency check will do more harm than good.
As the pro player only play on 3-4 servers, i wonder why they need all the features of the menumod. Anyway, im sure all those players will find there servers in the short time of experimenting the new stuff.
Same with crosshairs or alienvisions.