Running Dedicated Servers - Need Testing
StrikeS12
Join Date: 2007-10-13 Member: 62631Members
Join Date: 2007-10-13 Member: 62631Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Feed Your Addiction #1 & #2</div>With the sonic boom of 'DayZ' and servers I've been much grown, personally, into a server administrator just as fast as that game hit the scene. I ran two dedicated boxes for the game and with it tapering off I've now allocated the box to Natural Selection 2. An obviously better choice? Yes. Yes indeed.
I need to see how the server performs with the usage/load/slots and in order to do that I need feedback of course. I need to know that if the server is under load (full slots) for x-time if it starts to degrade and needs reboot a few times a day... things I really can't do without a static crowd.
I generally don't play, but only run the game servers that I administrate. I feel like that's fair to everyone else that plays on the server and it also rules out the slightest possibility that people think I'd be abusing my powers. (Trust me, I'm not 12 years old) I grew up on Natural Selection so I've got some respect for the game.
I'm currently running two servers on the box:
Feed Your Addiction #1
Feed Your Addiction #2
I have also set up a forum for these servers over at: <a href="http://servers.VigilantAddiction.com" target="_blank">http://servers.VigilantAddiction.com</a> - You can report in and give me feedback there; or here directly.
Why the separate forum/website? Well, I personally think it helps establish a 'server community' that people can get to know each other on and provides that extra level of interaction.
If things go well then I might allow certain Respectable Clans to assist with the administration on the servers in the future; and eventually replace most (if not all) of the DayZ servers with NS2 Servers.
I appreciate you reading this and wish everyone a wonderful Monday!
I need to see how the server performs with the usage/load/slots and in order to do that I need feedback of course. I need to know that if the server is under load (full slots) for x-time if it starts to degrade and needs reboot a few times a day... things I really can't do without a static crowd.
I generally don't play, but only run the game servers that I administrate. I feel like that's fair to everyone else that plays on the server and it also rules out the slightest possibility that people think I'd be abusing my powers. (Trust me, I'm not 12 years old) I grew up on Natural Selection so I've got some respect for the game.
I'm currently running two servers on the box:
Feed Your Addiction #1
Feed Your Addiction #2
I have also set up a forum for these servers over at: <a href="http://servers.VigilantAddiction.com" target="_blank">http://servers.VigilantAddiction.com</a> - You can report in and give me feedback there; or here directly.
Why the separate forum/website? Well, I personally think it helps establish a 'server community' that people can get to know each other on and provides that extra level of interaction.
If things go well then I might allow certain Respectable Clans to assist with the administration on the servers in the future; and eventually replace most (if not all) of the DayZ servers with NS2 Servers.
I appreciate you reading this and wish everyone a wonderful Monday!
Comments
MadThroat (again sorry if I have the name wrong) said that he experienced some rubber-banding when we hit around 10 people or so and combat really started setting in. We watched the tickrate fluxed up and down but I never saw it dive under 10 and generally resettled back at 25-30.
I checked the server loads/threads during those times and watched the usage; the CPU never throttled over 20% total usage and a single core never went over 20% either. (8 Threads Total)
This is a dedicated box running a Xeon E3-1270 V2 @ 3.5Ghz ~ 4.2Ghz depending on load.
16GB DDR3 on Windows Server 2008 R2 SP1 64-Bit
Speedtest Links From Server:
Central US: <a href="http://www.speedtest.net/result/2214111094.png" target="_blank">http://www.speedtest.net/result/2214111094.png</a>
Central US: <a href="http://www.speedtest.net/result/2214112924.png" target="_blank">http://www.speedtest.net/result/2214112924.png</a>
West US: <a href="http://www.speedtest.net/result/2214117584.png" target="_blank">http://www.speedtest.net/result/2214117584.png</a>
East US: <a href="http://www.speedtest.net/result/2214122092.png" target="_blank">http://www.speedtest.net/result/2214122092.png</a>
you stay @ 20 and 24 slots after your test?
I really wondering about this cause i think your server cant handle this ammount of players atm.
Playercount of 10-12 should be ok i think.
In this graph you can see the drops start @ 10 players. Thats exactly what you describe. And im sure you havnt played since endgame.
<img src="https://dl.dropbox.com/u/52045821/server.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Stating that this box can't handle that many slots is simply false (I'm not being rude); I know it can and it should be able to easily host 20. I'm trying to address the issue to why the server tool is doing this; obviously if I show little-to-no server load when this happens then it can't be a server/box issue but instead a limitation of the server tool. Perhaps there's some extra commands I can run with the server.exe process to kick it into gear.
Granted, it was only one person stating they had issues where-as I ran smooth as butter the whole time.
This same box ran 4 DayZ Servers of 40 slots without issue (yes, full slots of 40) so I know what it's capable of running and what should be okay. I mean, if I saw that a core was maxing out at 100% then sure... then it's my issue; but not a single core was over 20% (ever) and my total CPU usage on the box never hit over %20; the max it spiked to was %18 - Where we can go with that data? I'm not sure.
I'd still like to hopefully get a lot more testing/monitoring done this week to report back with. I want to take another look at the hard-drive I/O as a secondary possibility.
You come to the forum asking for tips,ok. I gave you an tip and the answer is "Stating that this box can't handle that many slots is simply false (I'm not being rude); I know it can and it should be able to easily host 20."
Ok, seems you know it better. Have fun with the testing.
And another tip: There are no commands to "boost" your server.
Even if your Server could handle 1k players on DayZ that doesn't count for NS2 at all. A Server with 20-24 NEEDS!!! to be a 2./3. Gen i5/i7 at 4.5-5.0 Ghz. Just truts us long term beta testers. And don't compare NS2 with any other game on the market performance wise!
10 to max 12 Slots is ok for your Server but for sure not more! And if you Server may show a steady 28 or 32 Tickrate be informed that this IS a bug, fyi.
Answer some simple questions then if you're the expert here:
Why would the server box be 'at fault / unable to host more slots' if the CPU Threads/Load never exceeds 20% and Hard-Drive I/O is normal. Explain to me how that is the fault of the box and not the process? Where's the bottleneck then? If this box can only host 10-12 slots; why is that?
There are plenty of commands you can run on a thread that could boost its performance; this is general/basic server 101. Each game might have its own various 'needs' when running the process which could result in increased performance.
So excuse me for disagreeing with you; but if you want to say that a server can't 'handle' a load then you need to back that up with a little more than an obvious graph that doesn't explain anything at all. If you want to help NS2 at all then you might try a little back and forth to figure out why something isn't working as it should.
Oh and yes; we played all the way through and afaik only one person reported issues and they had a ping average of roughly 175 (Yellow) which is more than likely where the issue lied; in their ping.
Look @ this thread: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=121553" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=121553</a>
Sorry that insult your box, wich is a peace of hardware for sure.
Anyway.
The only thing we can do is to wait for more serveroptimation by UWE.
If NS2 releases with a horribly high server requirement then they'll obviously see less server companies pick up and host the game; which means less advertisement, which means less player visibility; then to top it off with burdening the player with the crap shoot of connecting/finding a decent server to play on. Even if a hosting company did pick up a few and offer NS2 Servers they would be *extremely* expensive.
Back it up with Data; I'm a logical person by nature.
@4.5 - 5.0Ghz - Going to the gates with this kind of requirement on a server just makes me laugh; and then cry to see this as acceptable. Is this just a speculation rating or a UWE released fact?
You've both made nothing but blanket statements to me with no actual data/logical reasoning - <i>"Even if your Server could handle 1k players on DayZ that doesn't count for NS2 at all. A Server with 20-24 NEEDS!!! to be a 2./3. Gen i5/i7 at 4.5-5.0 Ghz"</i> - Why is that?? Don't stop there; because if there's any difference at all it is because the CPU isn't set/clocked to go over 4.2Ghz (on purpose).
Did either of you even join/play on the server? If so did you experience any lag/rubber-banding oddities? If you did, when did you; and can you recall what was going on at the time?
<!--quoteo(post=1985667:date=Oct 1 2012, 11:42 AM:name=Floodinator)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Floodinator @ Oct 1 2012, 11:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985667"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Trust dePara, your Server can not handle 20-24 players, maybe the first 2 min but then it is time to say goodbye.
Even if your Server could handle 1k players on DayZ that doesn't count for NS2 at all. A Server with 20-24 NEEDS!!! to be a 2./3. Gen i5/i7 at 4.5-5.0 Ghz. Just truts us long term beta testers. And don't compare NS2 with any other game on the market performance wise!
10 to max 12 Slots is ok for your Server but for sure not more! And if you Server may show a steady 28 or 32 Tickrate be informed that this IS a bug, fyi.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Thread isn't titled "Can my Box Handle This" - No - It's titled "Need Testing"; as in the logical exchange of data through the process of trial and error with the means to find a result that will further assist/help with the development the NS2 Server Tools.
I had read that thread already and in this subject matter it offers no assistance/information in this regards; thanks though.
<!--quoteo(post=1985672:date=Oct 1 2012, 11:50 AM:name=dePARA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dePARA @ Oct 1 2012, 11:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985672"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As im not programming the server.exe, how can i "help" NS2 more by giving you the tip to decrease the slotamount. I think im helping NS2 much by doing this.
Look @ this thread: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=121553" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=121553</a>
Sorry that insult your box, wich is a peace of hardware for sure.
Anyway.
The only thing we can do is to wait for more serveroptimation by UWE.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The tickrate shouldn't be lower than 20, even in the endgame, if you want to guarantee a (more or less) stable gameplay. A few drops are ok, but the graph shows a permanent drop ...
You probably should test more and for a longer period of time to see how your server is performing, just one round isn't enough.
Perhaps UWE could shed some light on how the server process deals with its load management?
However, even with the dips I personally didn't run into any odd issues; even in a large battle with at least 6-7 players nearly on top of each other, 2 of which I believe were mechs (or what have you) and a whole litter of repair drone things.
*shrug*
I have been in a server that has a 5 tick rate and noticed nothing (seriously, I have no idea how). However, it seems that specific behavior is only noticed when I was on the server for a long time, since it was at around 8 players. If I join a server that is already at 19/20 and ready to crash and burn, the rubberbanding hits the roof!
If I did not experience what I mentioned above, I would call myself a liar and a moron.
<a href="http://ns2servers.devicenull.org/" target="_blank">http://ns2servers.devicenull.org/</a>
It shows all servers. Also it shows the Tickrate compared to Map, Playernumbers and Ents.
The server process is in desperate need of optimisation. Part of the problem is the technology behind it (LUA), part is the fact that NS2 has far more going on than most FPS games and part is needing more time for optimisation. The cause aside for a moment, the current servers require an extreme overclock on consumer CPUs to maintain a 30 tickrate for 20+ players. It is sad, frustrating and bad for the game? yes. There is nothing we can do about that right now though. I only wish UWE would show they are aware of the issue instead of seemingly burying their heads in the sand (like the most recent Q&A, dismissing the problem).
<i>** edit: The reason I care so much about this is because I love NS2 and really want it to succeed. As it stands we will not have enough servers to meet demand upon release and many people will play on servers that really cannot handle the game acceptably, this will cause a huge mass of complaints, drama on the forum and many people deciding the game is junk. Which is a terrible waste, as on servers that can handle it the game can be incredibly fun and I think a lot of people would love it.</i>
Good luck with your servers and buy the way listen to Depara he knows what his talking about. :)
I did the a correlation between entities and tickrate; nearly dependent.... that when entities went super-high the tickrate super-dropped.
Again; I know I'm 'new to the show' around here but sometimes new eyes/minds aren't a bad thing. All I'm trying to convey is that it's not a hardware issue of the servers. Sure; overclocking and getting a higher Ghz could logically run it; but any server admin that cares for his hardware just a bit isn't going to OC it to that extreme for that long.
Again the point I'm trying to make though; is that regardless if it only uses 1 single thread that one thread never shows an increase over 20% (ever, so far) on the server. That's with binding the affinity of the process to the single core and running it in Realtime.
I know there is a previous post where someone mentioned that they believe the issue really sits with the cloaking/stealthing of objects. But what I'm seeing so far is that when the entities shoot up; the tickrate drops drasticly. Then for whatever reason... the entities let off and the tickrate went back to normal.
So my question I post from my first observation would be... What is being classified as an entity?
Example: <a href="http://ns2servers.devicenull.org/detail.php?id=1840" target="_blank">http://ns2servers.devicenull.org/detail.php?id=1840</a> - Note the relation.
<!--quoteo(post=1985803:date=Oct 1 2012, 03:12 PM:name=Davil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Davil @ Oct 1 2012, 03:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985803"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS2 is not optimized for multiple cores. Unfortunately it doesn't really matter how good your processor is or how much memory you have. Only one core and thread is actually being utilized, you may be able to set the affinity for the server process a bit higher and get better performance, but you won't have a solid 24 person server until they correct the optimization with the game, or unless you overclock your processor to a higher speed. That's just the way it is. If you look on the server discussion forum there is a thread leading to the wiki and it explains this in the first couple paragraphs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That cpu should handle ~18 players in NS2 server atm, make sure its not in a mixed/power save mode where it will clock down automatically.
In respect; I have to disagree that NS2 requires 'far more' resources than any other FPS; while I can't back that with data, I can with just my experiences hosting games and playing them. (I am assuming you were talking about server-side, not client) Of course that's <u>my opinion</u> which you can certainly dismiss; and I understand your opinion on it as well.
Digressing again; I'm here to help/assist with providing, validating, testing, running, brainstorming; etc... anything that will help NS2 become all it can be... on my servers. (G.I. Joe pun intended) I'm in no form trying to be rude to anyone else here, or disrespect them and their feats. However that doesn't mean I have to agree with someone or just taking something at face value.
<!--quoteo(post=1985810:date=Oct 1 2012, 03:24 PM:name=Argathor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Argathor @ Oct 1 2012, 03:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985810"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->dePARA (and others) used blanket statements because this is such a well known issue. Some forum research or talking to a few players could have given you the same.
The server process is in desperate need of optimisation. Part of the problem is the technology behind it (LUA), part is the fact that NS2 has far more going on than most FPS games and part is needing more time for optimisation. The cause aside for a moment, the current servers require an extreme overclock on consumer CPUs to maintain a 30 tickrate for 20+ players. It is sad, frustrating and bad for the game? yes. There is nothing we can do about that right now though. I only wish UWE would show they are aware of the issue instead of seemingly burying their heads in the sand (like the most recent Q&A, dismissing the problem).
<i>** edit: The reason I care so much about this is because I love NS2 and really want it to succeed. As it stands we will not have enough servers to meet demand upon release and many people will play on servers that really cannot handle the game acceptably, this will cause a huge mass of complaints, drama on the forum and many people deciding the game is junk. Which is a terrible waste, as on servers that can handle it the game can be incredibly fun and I think a lot of people would love it.</i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Trust me; a single core never did peg out. If it had done so it would have explained and lot.
There's roughly... 8 Game Servers (not all NS2) running on it right now. Granted, most of them are empty (DayZ dying off) during that earlier in the day. The box itself, with those 8 servers all full, has never went past a 80% load (that's my personal warning number). However right now it's NS2 / DayZ / MvM Servers.
Double-Checked the Power State and verified it was 100% / 100% on the throttle so it doesn't down-clock. (Thanks for the reminder)
<!--quoteo(post=1985834:date=Oct 1 2012, 04:04 PM:name=xDragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xDragon @ Oct 1 2012, 04:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985834"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What are you using to look at cpu usage per core, and how many servers where you running when you saw 20% peak load? 20% load on 8 threads is def pegging out a single core if a NS2 server is basically the only thing running.
That cpu should handle ~18 players in NS2 server atm, make sure its not in a mixed/power save mode where it will clock down automatically.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- I certainly don't have the up/down bandwidth to run the amount of servers I am from my current box at home; just for starters.
- I sure as hell don't pay $320 a month for it, lol!
You had to be taking a jab at me with that... hosting a server at a home is the last thing someone should do; unless you've got the perfect setup of course - Which not everyone does... but thanks, because I certainly do not. (That's a whole'nother topic/discussion lol)
Our dedicated box has been serving our 'community' and thousands of other Gamers just as well.
<!--quoteo(post=1985817:date=Oct 1 2012, 03:34 PM:name=oldassgamers)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (oldassgamers @ Oct 1 2012, 03:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985817"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hi striker, I've looked into your cost and 320 dollars a month is exstremly much for your community. I recommend you host your own server at your home. It's so much cheaper in the long run.
Good luck with your servers and buy the way listen to Depara he knows what his talking about. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For background, my clan (Team156) has been running NS2 servers for over a year now (currently, the servers <a href="http://ns2servers.devicenull.org/detail.php?id=25" target="_blank">here</a>, <a href="http://ns2servers.devicenull.org/detail.php?id=122" target="_blank">here</a>, <a href="http://ns2servers.devicenull.org/detail.php?id=931" target="_blank">here</a>, and <a href="http://ns2servers.devicenull.org/detail.php?id=930" target="_blank">here</a>) and our experience is that it takes quite a bit of single-core CPU power to run a smooth NS2 server.
Everyone's getting this whole thread off its original intention.
Now correct me if I'm wrong here because I certainly might be; as I'm more of an AMD person than Intel... but from just a quick google I see the E3 1270 V2 being compared with a 2nd Gen i7/Ivy directly on Intel's website? I certainly have no intention of OC'ing that hard and degrading equipment and beside my intentions here.
However, digressing; this is originally about getting some raw testing data done on these servers to get some presentable data; so then I can either make that call to order up another box for NS2 itself or attempt to do what I can with this current box and know its limits.
Let's have the data do the talking fellas.
<!--quoteo(post=1985860:date=Oct 1 2012, 04:55 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Oct 1 2012, 04:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985860"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As others have said in this thread, server optimization is not really where it needs to be yet. The dedicated server pretty much uses only one core (which is why it only shows 20-25% CPU usage in Windows). The E3 1270 v2 is a powerful CPU, but the best performing NS2 servers out there are running i5/i7 Sandy/Ivy Bridges OCd to the 4.4GHz+ range (which can comfortably handle 20 players and just barely handles 24 players). Comfortable playercount for your server is probably around 12 players, but you could push it up to 16 if you don't mind some end-game performance hits. The devs know the issues with server performance and are working on it (and it has improved significantly over the course of the beta).
For background, my clan (Team156) has been running NS2 servers for over a year now (currently, the servers <a href="http://ns2servers.devicenull.org/detail.php?id=25" target="_blank">here</a>, <a href="http://ns2servers.devicenull.org/detail.php?id=122" target="_blank">here</a>, <a href="http://ns2servers.devicenull.org/detail.php?id=931" target="_blank">here</a>, and <a href="http://ns2servers.devicenull.org/detail.php?id=930" target="_blank">here</a>) and our experience is that it takes quite a bit of single-core CPU power to run a smooth NS2 server.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And you said that you never see the server.exe process max out a single core. Assuming you have a quad core, it should max out a single core, and then some.
<b>Your tickrate will not drop below 30, until your server hits about 26-29%</b>
That statement has been true for quite a few builds, since they (re)introduced the wait loops. Confirm this is actually happening, and thats why it slows down, and why overclocking WILL help. This isn't an art or voodoo, its real and accountable.
Also you don't need to lock affinity (that will only slow your server down), and changing priority shouln't be needed, it really depends on what else you have running.
I believe we had roughly 12 people on the server earlier in the day and it never peaked out a core; not even close, which gave me a positive outlook. Even as the tickrate decreased the core didn't flux really at all (was watching on my other monitor). Only one person, out of 12, mentioned rubber-banding and their ping was nearly 200 at the time so I'm not going to pull the trigger and say that its limit is 12.
I'm certainly not calling 'Overclocking' an art, or voodoo (magic); and it has it own realtime and logical applications; however it just isn't applicable in my situation, <b>yet</b>, so it's a non-issue at the moment.
I really concur though that the entities have a major factor/hit in the performance at certain key-points/functions of the game. (Thread on Stealthing)
<!--quoteo(post=1985942:date=Oct 1 2012, 08:18 PM:name=endar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (endar @ Oct 1 2012, 08:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985942"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The thread has derailed a little, as you mentioned. You need to forgive dePara, he is trying to help, its just the translation sometimes comes through a little ruder than it is expected to.
And you said that you never see the server.exe process max out a single core. Assuming you have a quad core, it should max out a single core, and then some.
<b>Your tickrate will not drop below 30, until your server hits about 26-29%</b>
That statement has been true for quite a few builds, since they (re)introduced the wait loops. Confirm this is actually happening, and thats why it slows down, and why overclocking WILL help. This isn't an art or voodoo, its real and accountable.
Also you don't need to lock affinity (that will only slow your server down), and changing priority shouln't be needed, it really depends on what else you have running.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd ask for the data too, so I decided to link server performance to specs for as many servers as I could find, in this <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=121581" target="_blank">thread</a>.
However, I think the data tells the story:
Here is a HBZ server running at 4.8GHz, running more or less buttery smooth:
<a href="http://imgur.com/kHc9o" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/kHc9ol.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
Here is an OldAssGamer server running at 4.0GHz, doing less well than the HBZ server, but still not that bad:
<a href="http://imgur.com/ij9Ds" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/ij9Dsl.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
Finally, here is the GamingDeluxe.co.uk server running at 3.3GHz, which is clearly showing it has problems:
<a href="http://imgur.com/ymjNy" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/ymjNyl.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
As you can see, lower clock speed leads to worse tickrate drops and poorer in-game performance.
The thing is, the Server handles the animation, as it needs to update the hitboxes so that alien bites and bullet shots are accurate to what the players are seeing. Therefore, having more entities will put more load on the server. Think of it as having babies.
ScardyBob's data says it all. You can verify those graphs - they're <a href="http://ns2servers.devicenull.org/" target="_blank">publicly available</a>.
And thanks again ScardyBob!